Auralic Aries Mini

[Cebolla]

I believe there are currently only two gapless playback supporting UPnP control apps for the iPhone:

Kinsky - OpenHome Media (does also support standard UPnP, but isn't gapless in that mode)

and

Audionet Music Manager - standard UPnP only.

[Cebolla]

Indeed, I forgot about that app - standard UPnP, presumably? I think it was mentioned as gapless over at the MinimServer forum. Certainly worth someone testing it to confirm and adding it to the 'official' list:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/truly-gapless-digital-living-network-alliance-controllers-22398/

[Cebolla]

Thanks. I haven't got an iDevice to hand apart from the wife's iPad for work and I'm currently banned from tinkering with it!

[Cebolla]

Ah, shame. At least we've now got the info first-hand.

[Cebolla]

I gather that Android control is not possible

The Mini's own Lightning DS app is available on Android and many third party UPnP/DLNA controller apps, including some OpenHome ones are available on Android, eg, the excellent BubbleUPnP app, so not sure where you got your info from.

[Cebolla]

Just got one last night - too early to have impressions on sound quality. Odd question - I'm new to UPNP and kind of hate what I've seen so far. I'd love to be able to control the mini with iPeng or OrangeSqeeze, the controllers I know from the Squeezebox ecosystem. If anyone has any insight into making that work, I'd appreciate it.

 

FWIW - I've installed the UPNP bridge plug in for the Squeezebox server. It won't find the Mini as a renderer.

Hi Ismarketing

 

Have you set the Mini's operating mode to UPnP (as opposed to OpenHome)?

 

The Squeeze2UPnP/UPnP Bridge LMS plugin only works with standard UPnP renderers, not OpenHome Media (ohMedia aka UPnP with Linn extensions) ones. See here and further posts for discussion on subject in the main Aries hardware thread:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-aries-hardware-impressions-and-information-21261/index109.html#post484068

 

John

[Cebolla]

I see that you didn't say that you tried the Mini with LMS and UPnP.

Is the Aries's standard UPnP mode (as opposed to OpenHome Media mode) still broken?

 

If so then it cannot be used with the excellent squeeze2upnp/UPnPBridge plugin for Logitech Media Server to get the Aries to be used as a Squeezebox (ie emulated Squeezebox) streamer.

It also means the Aries cannot be used with other applications that use a standard UPnP/DLNA control point, such as JRiver Media Center.

[Cebolla]

If you are happy enough with the Logitech Media Server providing its music library and audio services to your Squeezebox Touch, you should be able to bypass the SBT and use LMS directly with the Oppo as a Squeezebox streamer together with your existing Squeezebox controller app to boot. If you install the UPnPBridge/squeeze2upnp plugin component in LMS it should provide a Squeezebox emulator for the Oppo (as well as for any other UPnP renderer on the network):

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103728-Announce-UPnPBridge-integrate-UPnP-DLNA-players-with-LMS-%28squeeze2upnp%29

 

Thought it best to add, since this is a bit off topic for an Aries Mini thread, that using the UPnPBridge plugin for LMS to provide a Squeezebox emulator won't work with an Aries. This is because the Aries's standard UPnP streaming support is currently broken.

[Cebolla]

I'm assuming you're referring to the BubbleUPnP Android controller app as opposed to the BubbleUPnP Server helper software (it's usually best to clarify which, as quite a few UPnP streamer owners use at least one, if not both).

 

Are you certain that you used the Aries in (standard) UPnP mode and not in OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) mode? The BubbleUPnP Android app supports control of both standard UPnP and OpenHome renderers.

[Cebolla]

Ok fair enough. Just thought you'd be the 'tinkering type' and an old hand with regards to the Logitech Media Server, given that you'd gone to the trouble of installing the EDO 3rd party app on the Squeezebox Touch.

[Cebolla]

Hi pfed

 

Seeing as you're planning on using a "vintage DAC" that presumably can't handle a DSD audio signal, what you actually mean is DSD to PCM conversion (at a 44.1kHz sample rate), rather than DoP (DSD over PCM) which is still DSD.

 

Also, bear in mind the Aries MINI is a UPnP streamer. This means it can only play music files by streaming the individual music file tracks from a UPnP media server. With the Aries models you have the option of streaming the music files from an external UPnP media server running on a networked device or from its internal built-in UPnP media server known as the Lightning Server. The Aries's Lightning Server can be configured with music files from network shared folders in addition to music files from a locally attached storage drive.

 

So, don't expect the Aries MINI nor any other UPnP streamer to support streaming of the actual cue sheet files. Cue sheet file support can only be handled by the UPnP media server. AFAIK the Aries's built-in Lightning Server doesn't support cue sheets, so you'll be forced to using the Aries with an external UPnP media server that does support them.

 

Also, the Aries doesn't currently support conversion to PCM output to an external DAC when streaming DSD files. You could instead use a UPnP media server that can transcode the DSD files to a PCM format, so convert them on the fly while streaming. I don't believe the Aries's Lightning Server has this transcoding ability, so (as for cue sheet support) you are going to need to use an external UPnP media server for this support.

 

John

[Cebolla]

Unfortunately, the Aries hasn't got the ability to downsample. Again, there are some UPnP media servers that can provide downsampling via their transcoders, but not the Aries's internal Lightning Server. I believe the Aries was originally planned to be able to upsample (so may have also included a downsampling capabilitiy), presumably via a future firmware update, but this has apprently been put on hold according to Auralic's CEO, Xuanqian Wang:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-lightning-ds-app-software-impressions-and-information-21262/index68.html#post500395

 

However, if getting rid of your PC means using a NAS for storage of your music files (as opposed to using local storage on the Aries itself), then you could always run & use a decent transcoding UPnP media server on the NAS instead of using the Aries's Lightning Server.

 

For example, the excellent MinimServer UPnP media server can be installed on Synology, QNAP and other NASs:

MinimServer features

MinimServer doesn't support cue sheets, but its optional MinimStreamer transcoder can downsample hi-res FLAC files and convert DSF DSD files to WAV:

User guide

[Cebolla]

I don't have a Aries Mini yet. John, I have a queation about your explanation the Aries streams only individual tracks over Upnp. I want to keep using Bubleupnp as controlpoint. Can the Aries Mini play gapless that way? My current streamer can't.

 

Greetings,

Jaap

Hi Jaap

 

Short answer, yes.

 

Long answer. UPnP renderers/players/streamers can only request individual music file tracks from the UPnP media server. However, that doesn't prevent the UPnP renderer from requesting and streaming the next music file track from the UPnP media server, while it is still streaming and playing the current music file track. Effectively, the UPnP renderer is able to cue the next track in memory, ready to add its data to the playback buffer, so as to provide a seamless transition between the two tracks and therefore play the next track gaplessly. The Aries streamers support cueing, so play gaplessly with the BubbleUPnP Android app. Therefore the answer to your question is yes.

 

Even longer answer. In order to be able to cue the next track for gapless support, the UPnP renderer needs to know which music file is the next one in the playlist it needs to request from the UPnP media server. There two ways of implementing this depending on the UPnP file streaming mechanism being used: standard UPnP or OpenHome.

 

Under standard UPnP file streaming, 'play this track' instructions are sent by the standard UPnP control point to the standard UPnP renderer individually, on a track by track basis. In other words, the standard UPnP renderer has no concept of the playlist and the playlist therefore belongs to standard UPnP control point. The 'play this track' instruction comes with an appropriate URL, which the standard UPnP renderer uses to request the music file from the UPnP media server.

 

Additionaly, if gapless playback is supported by both the standard UPnP control point and the standard UPnP renderer, if there is another track following the current track in the playlist, the standard UPnP control point sends a 'cue next track' instruction with appropriate URL to request from the UPnP media server, just after it sends the 'play this track' instruction. So with gapless playback support, the standard UPnP renderer is aware of the next track as well as the current track. The standard UPnP control point queries the standard UPnP renderer's track position every second or so and if there is a following track in the playlist, issues another 'cue next track' instuction when the standard UPnP renderer returns with the information that it is now playing the next (previously cued) track. Thus the standard UPnP control point continues to manage the gapless playback until the rest of the tracks in the playlist are played by the standard UPnP renderer or the user intervenes.

 

Note that with standard UPnP streaming, gapless support is (unfortunately) optional. This explains why your current streamer doesn't play gaplessly, even when used with a decent standard UPnP gapless supporting control point like the BubbleUPnP Android app. In other words, your UPnP streamer doesn't support the 'cue next track' instruction and can only be told to advance to the next track by the standard UPnP control point sending it a 'play this track' instruction when the current track has been detected as having finished playing. Hence the gap between your UPnP streamer finishing playing the current track and playing the next track after receiving 'play this track' instruction.

 

OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) streaming was developed to overcome the renderer's dependence on the control point for the playlist. The OpenHome control point sends the OpenHome renderer the entire playlist with appropriate URLs to request the music file tracks from the UPnP media server. The OpenHome renderer still requests the individual music file tracks from the UPnP media server. However, playback with OpenHome streaming is much simpler than with standard UPnP streaming, since having the entire playlist means the OpenHome renderer doesn't require instructions from the OpenHome control point to advance to the next track. This includes cueing the next track from the UPnP media server for gapless playback. In fact all OpenHome renderers support gapless playback by design.

 

The Aries renderers can operate in either standard UPnP mode or OpenHome mode. Unusually, for a UPnP control point, the BubbleUPnP Android app can control OpenHome renderers as well as standard UPnP ones. Both the Aries streamers and the BubbleUPnP Android app support standard UPnP gapless option and OpenHome is gapless by design. So, regardless of the Aries Mini being in either standard UPnP mode or OpenHome mode, if it is being controlled by the BubbleUPnP Android app, the answer to your question is yes.

[Cebolla]

I've bought an Aries Mini and set it up with an iPhone. However I want to use my Android to control the Aries Mini.

 

I have tried three apps: Bubbleupnp, Bubble DS and Lightning DS for Android.

All apps both in Lightning mode and uPnP mode.

 

I run into some issues though:

 

1) The first track of the day starts playing on screen but without sound. I have to restart the track to get sound. This happens every day. Regardless of the app I use and also when I use the iPhone.

 

2) With Bubbleupnp in Lightning mode Qobuz and Tidal tracks can be selected but won't start playing.

 

3) Qobuz and Tidal tracks can be played with Bubbleupnp in upnp mode, however it doesn't play the next track of the playlist.

 

4) Airplay only works in Lightning mode. Airplay does not work in uPnP mode.

 

5) With Bubbleupnp in uPnP mode the playlist stops after three tracks.

 

6) When Airplay is used first and Bubbleupnp after, instead of album art it keeps displaying "Airplay".

 

Bubble DS and Lightning DS for Android don't seem to do better than Bubbleupnp.

 

Help is appriciated!

Hasn't the Android version of the Lightning DS app been dropped by Auralic? I don't think it ever made it past beta (almost a year ago), so is probably best avoided for music file streaming, certainly with the current Aries firmware.

 

The Aries's Lightning mode used to be known as the OpenHome mode. By all accounts the Lightning mode does seem to (still) support OpenHome streaming for ordinary (non online) network music file streaming, but it does not support (and never has supported) OpenHome Streaming Services (for Tidal & Qobuz) and the Aries uses its own proprietary non-OpenHome mechanism to access Tidal & Qobuz. So you cannot use OpenHome supporting controller apps with the Aries in Lightning mode for streaming from Tidal & Qobuz. This explains your 2) issue. Note, the BubbleDS Next app is OpenHome only (like the Linn Kazoo & Lumin controller apps).

 

The BubbleUPnP Android app is special in that it supports both OpenHome (including OpenHome Streaming Services for Tidal & Qobuz) & standard UPnP/DLNA renderers. It is also special in that it provides Tidal & Qobuz access for standard UPnP/DLNA renderers. This is what the Aries is using for Tidal & Qobuz access in (standard) uPnP mode. Some standard UPnP renderers have problems streaming from online servers, so the BubbleUPnP app has a setting to force the use of a proxy. If you use the force proxy setting in the BubbleUPnP app, it might sort out your 3) issue.

 

The Aries's uPnP mode has only been recently fixed, so it may still be a bit buggy and likely explain issue 5).

 

Another thing to try for issue 3) & possibly 5), is to create an OpenHome renderer for the Aries in uPnP mode, using the BubbleUPnP Server helper software on a computer or NAS on the same network:

http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/#media_renderers_configuration

[Cebolla]

@Cebolla Sorry, but BubbleDS Next works flawlessly with Tidal. BubbleDS Next support Tidal Streaming and Aries Mini supports OpenHome. That is enough to make it work.

No, a renderer supporting OpenHome streaming does not follow that it also supports OpenHome Streaming Services (for Tidal & Qobuz). This is optional for OpenHome renderers:

http://wiki.openhome.org/wiki/OhMediaDevelopers#Streaming_Services

 

However, it is possible the Aries's firmware has been recently updated to support and use OpenHome Streaming Services, instead of its old proprietary mechanism, to access Tidal & Qobuz. It certainly was not the case a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I cannot varify this as I do not have access to an Aries.

 

Are you certain you are using your Aries in Lightning mode with the BubbleDS Next app to stream from Tidal or have you actually created an OpenHome renderer (with the BubbleUPnP Server software on a computer or NAS) for the Aries in uPnP mode and using that BubbleUPnP Server created OpenHome renderer with the BubbleDS Next app to stream from Tidal?

[Cebolla]

BubbleDS Next is developed for a audio only purpose. If you have no intensions to use the Mini for other purposes than audio I suggest you give it a try. It sounds better than Kazoo IMO.

Not sure why using a different controller app would make any difference as far as the sound quality is concerned. The controller app should only instructing the renderer which music files the renderer should stream from the UPnP media server, so the controller should not be actually handling that music file data!

[Cebolla]

Fair enough. It is possible that the Aries's firmware has been recently updated to support OpenHome Streaming Services. Are you getting Tidal access with the Linn Kazoo app and the Aries too?

 

BTW, is your plan to use the BubbleUPnP Server on a QNAP for providing UPnP help to devices other than the Aries?

[Cebolla]

Hi pvanosta,

 

Just a small point in the interests of clarity. The Auralic LightningServer doesn't actually run on the NAS (unlike the other server applications you mentioned can). It is in the firmware of Auralic streaming devices, such as the Aries so runs on them. All the LightningServer requires from the NAS is access to its stored music files via network sharing.

 

It would be a pretty poor NAS indeed if it couldn't handle simple network file sharing!

 

 

John

[Cebolla]

38 minutes ago, nnck said:

I'm liking this Aries Mini more and more as I learn more about what I can do with Lightning DS. I came from several years of experience using Logitech Squeezebox and the Logitech Media software software.

 

24 minutes ago, nnck said:

One thing I still like better about the Squeezebox software is how you can move tracks around the playlist by dragging them up and down the list with your mouse (there were some flaws about how Logitech implemented this imo, but I wont go into it now). I wish you could do something similar in Lightning DS, but it doesnt appear to be the case.

 

Assuming you can still set the Aries devices to standard UPnP mode (and that the standard UPnP mode works bug free), you should be able to get the Aries Mini to behave as if it were a Squeezebox and control it with the Logitech Media Server.

 

Requires the UPnPBridge LMS plugin, see:

Squeezebox Community Forums, 3rd Party Software - Announce: UPnPBridge = integrate UPnP/DLNA players with LMS (squeeze2upnp)