Article: Audiophile Optimizer Raises The Bar

[billg]

I use JplayStreamer with AO and they give the best sound I've ever had. I used JRiver (with and without the Jplay driver) and still do for library management and serving the DLNA library. It's a great product but is completely outshone by JplayStreamer with AO on my system, IMO.

 

Anyone who makes statements like "Anyone who is endorsing Jplay cannot be trusted as Jp[lay is a complete joke" (sic) better have tried it out before making such pronouncements. How would they like it if we panned their product because we didn't like the fact that it exists. Sounds like bigotry to me.

[Priaptor]

While the best SQ is my ultimate goal it is not at the expense of usability.

 

My favorite "at this time" is AO+Fidelizer+ROON.

 

Pretty amazing experience.

 

When HQ Player interfaces with ROON, ROON Speakers are implemented and iOS app for ROON there will be peace on earth.

 

AO can be scary to some at first but it really is pretty intuitive and Phil has been awesome in his tweaks, responsiveness to questions and now with all the additions in Service Tool it is basically impossible to get to the point of no return in experimenting (although I almost did and why I listed the keyboard cmd when running headless).

 

AO was my first big software tweak years ago and I have never looked back. People who think there is no difference are entitled to their opinion. For me it was a great addition and Phil deserves lots of credit for a great and evolving product.

 

Thanks for all Phil!!

[Jud]

While the best SQ is my ultimate goal

 

...I'll never reach it because the dog ate my computer, aaauuuggghhh!

 

[Priaptor]

...I'll never reach it because the dog ate my computer, aaauuuggghhh!

 

 

Yes I understand.

 

I have three big dogs and hence why I pushed the "reply" button hastily as "Koufax" (my youngest) jumped on me.

 

Dogs + Music = Bliss

[Jud]

 

Dogs + Music = Bliss

 

True dat.

[toddrhodes]

It's unfortunate that JRiver has seemingly become the villain in this story, since they were, to my understanding, one of the first - or at least most successful - groups to push computer-based playback to the forefront. JRiver is in a crowded, hard-fought space that has to cater to both enthusiasts and laymen at the same time. Ease of use, consistent code line, and common sense features are the name of the game here, sometimes even in spite of ultimate fidelity. You really can't, or shouldn't, begrudge them for protecting an investment they've made in their product. I am an unabashed JRiver fan. They make my whole home system seamless, and allow me to share my library to endpoints at work, in my car, and wherever I want to go, and it sounds pretty darn good doing it. Is it on the level of what these tweaks like JPlay and AO can deliver? No, but that's not necessarily their fault. I realize they've taken an unfortunate stance against JPlay but we, or at least, I, don't know the particulars and having worked in and around software development for over 10 years, what people outside the circle see is generally entirely different from what's going on behind closed doors. I accept, and heartily support JRiver for what they do offer.

 

With that said, I'll happily try out WS12 R2 + AO, sounds like a killer combo!

[BobSherman]

Chris,

 

I do not know what to say. When I first read this I thought I was dreaming, or maybe in a another universe. After I realized this was real I felt so happy, and impressed that you actually finally took the time to do this, it's a good thing as Martha Stewart would say.

 

Phil is really a great guy and a brilliant software expert and has done us all a great service which we've appreciated for a while, and finally now you have joined us. Computer audio can be so much better than just a standard operating system and run-of-the-mill software and I'm glad now that you have been able to hear what we've been talking about for so long. Maybe now you can see some of the frustration some of us have had here during these tenuous discussions, and maybe have a better understanding.

 

We all mean well and are just trying to have fun and enjoy this hobby but, but sometimes being told the Earth is flat can be frustrating. I am so happy that you have written this and your previous articles discussing software, we are now all moving forward and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks again Chris...

 

Best regards

Bob

[billg]

"Anyone who is endorsing Jplay cannot be trusted as Jp[lay is a complete joke" (sic). This sounds like bigotry to me. Anyone who makes statements like this better have tried it for himself.

 

I totally agree Clipper. I use JplayStreamer and AO on my Zuma and it's the best sound I've ever had and easily outshines JRiver on my system, IMO.

[BobSherman]

as somone who has used Jplay, AO, and server 2012, its strengths are detail.if what you care to hear in music is someone scraping their chair or dropping a reed during recorded performance it will buy you that level of separation in low level sounds. But if what you care about is mid range purity, the harmonic difference between a stradivarius and a guarneri, these things are not as good as a UPNP streamer solution of equal investment

 

Have you used the new JPlay 6.1 streamer?

 

Regards

Bob

[BobSherman]

Yes I understand.

 

I have three big dogs and hence why I pushed the "reply" button hastily as "Koufax" (my youngest) jumped on me. [ATTACH]19543[/ATTACH]

 

Dogs + Music = Bliss

 

Is he a south paw with a great curve ball? And from Brooklyn...

[Archimago]

I find it fascinating actually the stance that some folks here take with JRiver.

 

From the perspective of features, forward thinking (like being able to do realtime DSD transcoding in JRiver 19, or the ability to run DSP code through DLNA streams in JRiver 20), support for DST decompression of DSD data, and sound quality (supporting everything from DirectSound to ASIO to WASAPI...), these guys have done it. They are responsive to bug fixes, open to consideration of new features, and the software is a remarkably comprehensive package for the price. They have harnessed the promise of computer audio tangibly in more ways than probably anyone else out there!

 

The one area which many here seem to complain about is the fact that they have not compromised and embraced the voodoo that permeates through this hobby. Claims of remarkable changes in sonic quality with no apparent links to reality. Claims born of purely subjective testimony. The moment anyone tries a controlled trial or blind test of this stuff - poof... It all disappears back into the smoke and mirrors where these claims were born. Often all that's left is stuff with big price tags and "bargains" on the used market.

 

I respect JRiver's position they have taken over the years. They have been consistent, and these guys know what they're doing. Kudos to them for "drawing a line in sand" where facts become fiction.

[Lauritsvd]

Here we go again..

But why, since We have heard it all before.. .-)

 

And it has nothing to do with Chris great review of the

amazing program that Phill has made :-)

 

 

Cheers..

[ted_b]

Let's get this thread back on topic (hell, JRiver doesn't even run on WS2012 if it were up to JRiver; they highly dissuade anyone to do it).

 

Chris, have you played around with the signatures (1,2,3,4,x) and digital filter settings (A, B, C, D, X)? They can be changed without going through another AO setup cycle, and often have a significant impact on sq. They are all bit-perfect (for you bits-is-bits folks) but change registry and process prioritizations that end up almost like tube rolling effects. Try it.

[Priaptor]

Is he a south paw with a great curve ball? And from Brooklyn...

 

AND he never pitches on Yom Kippur

[Priaptor]

I find it fascinating actually the stance that some folks here take with JRiver.

 

From the perspective of features, forward thinking (like being able to do realtime DSD transcoding in JRiver 19, or the ability to run DSP code through DLNA streams in JRiver 20), support for DST decompression of DSD data, and sound quality (supporting everything from DirectSound to ASIO to WASAPI...), these guys have done it. They are responsive to bug fixes, open to consideration of new features, and the software is a remarkably comprehensive package for the price. They have harnessed the promise of computer audio tangibly in more ways than probably anyone else out there!

 

The one area which many here seem to complain about is the fact that they have not compromised and embraced the voodoo that permeates through this hobby. Claims of remarkable changes in sonic quality with no apparent links to reality. Claims born of purely subjective testimony. The moment anyone tries a controlled trial or blind test of this stuff - poof... It all disappears back into the smoke and mirrors where these claims were born. Often all that's left is stuff with big price tags and "bargains" on the used market.

 

I respect JRiver's position they have taken over the years. They have been consistent, and these guys know what they're doing. Kudos to them for "drawing a line in sand" where facts become fiction.

 

I think most people's issues with JRiver was the issue with JPlay. I loved and continue to love JRiver. I don't think anyone is debating it's abilities and the amazing number flexibility and combinations it offers at such a reasonable price and I am with you, although I don't agree with JRiver's policy, that it is their right to do what they want.

 

However, as Ted states, the JRiver topic is different than AO. You can run JRiver with AO, in GUI, MinimalServer or Core mode. It works amazingly well. Personally, once my DAC manufacturer came out with a dedicated ASIO driver and more recently with a memory solution my choice of player has less impact on the SQ, HOWEVER, I still notice a big difference with and without AO, which has been my one constant to the BEST SQ in my opinion.

 

I am not sure what is wrong with "subjective reality". Isn't most human enjoyment derived from that??

[ted_b]

AND he never pitches on Yom Kippur

 

Keep an eye on that left front leg (elbow). We don't want Koufax retired at an early age!!

 

Yes, AO seems to make all players sound better (in my AO experience those have included JRIver, Jplay, Jplaystreamer, HQplayer..and soon Roon...my now-expired beta copy was on my desktop, my real copy will install on my server once Roon speaker and HQP are ready for testing)

[devs]

I fully agree with most others: AO is simply great! It has saved me so much time in tinkering while not compromising on SQ. In fact it betters my own previous efforts on Windows 8.1.

 

With the lean and mean JPlaystreamer (using Minim which actively supports JPlay users and now also with Tidal support) it is all I need, although I am very interested in the Roon experience (ASIO out into Jplay) once they release their IOS remote and Roon Speakers.

 

Regarding JRiver, I actually consider it obsolete. Being monolithic and in a way too "bloated" for a music server it gave good sound but Jplay gives me great -music-. They've forced me too look elsewhere (and lost me as a paying customer) and while inconvenient at the time it got me closer to reaching to my goals. I've always found the software rich in functionality but not excelling in anything (although I loved the, formerly 3rd party, remote.) I guess that's what happens when one tries to do it all. Them calling a part of their customer base gullible fools really closed the door for me personally.

[Archimago]

...

 

I am not sure what is wrong with "subjective reality". Isn't most human enjoyment derived from that??

 

Sure, nothing wrong with that. Just a reminder of what kind of "reality" this topic is about...

[firedog]

Please, please don't turn this into another JRiver Jplay thread. Let's keep it about AO.

 

I have the theoretical perfect platform for WS2012 and AO - a Xeon based CAPS Pipeline. It's setup totally as a headless server, but it's running Win8.1 (soon to be Win 10). I really should try WS2012 and AO, but am afraid I'm going to have to give up some functionality I want. I one of those willing to sacrifice a small bit of SQ for convenience - otherwise I don't enjoy my setup.

 

So I'm really hoping that AO for Win10 will fill my needs better. At the least, it won't involve the expense and added work of installing and using a new OS.

 

I can't really run Roon yet - it won't run on my server (no Open GL support); but there is soon to be a "headless" version and HQP integration - by the end of the summer apparently - but once all of those things happen I think I'll have what only a few months ago I would have thought was the ultimate setup that could never happen in real life.

[BobSherman]

AND he never pitches on Yom Kippur

 

[gldgate]

Please, please don't turn this into another JRiver Jplay thread. Let's keep it about AO.

 

I have the theoretical perfect platform for WS2012 and AO - a Xeon based CAPS Pipeline. It's setup totally as a headless server, but it's running Win8.1 (soon to be Win 10). I really should try WS2012 and AO, but am afraid I'm going to have to give up some functionality I want. I one of those willing to sacrifice a small bit of SQ for convenience - otherwise I don't enjoy my setup.

 

I think there are many of us in the same boat. I am on the sidelines eagerly waiting for W10 and AO for W10. One thing that Chris did not touch on that I think is of note is tighter integration between AO and Process Lasso.

[BobSherman]

Let's get this thread back on topic (hell, JRiver doesn't even run on WS2012 if it were up to JRiver; they highly dissuade anyone to do it).

 

Chris, have you played around with the signatures (1,2,3,4,x) and digital filter settings (A, B, C, D, X)? They can be changed without going through another AO setup cycle, and often have a significant impact on sq. They are all bit-perfect (for you bits-is-bits folks) but change registry and process prioritizations that end up almost like tube rolling effects. Try it.

 

Just to touch on this a "bit" more. This is real time so not even a reboot is needed. You can make changes while playing music, non-stop to help dial in your system. And no burnt fingers from hot tubes!

[BobSherman]

Keep an eye on that left front leg (elbow). We don't want Koufax retired at an early age!!

 

Yes, AO seems to make all players sound better (in my AO experience those have included JRIver, Jplay, Jplaystreamer, HQplayer..and soon Roon...

 

Yes it does... It simply has to IMO. The less the OS is doing, (the more stable) the better it will sound.

[BobSherman]

I am not sure what is wrong with "subjective reality". Isn't most human enjoyment derived from that??

 

Not just enjoyment, but all of life. Just a small handful must keep beating their broken drum.

 

When studying humans, subjective response data is paramount. This is why we exist. To ignore this is just narrow minded and foolish.

[Priaptor]

Please, please don't turn this into another JRiver Jplay thread. Let's keep it about AO.

 

I have the theoretical perfect platform for WS2012 and AO - a Xeon based CAPS Pipeline. It's setup totally as a headless server, but it's running Win8.1 (soon to be Win 10). I really should try WS2012 and AO, but am afraid I'm going to have to give up some functionality I want. I one of those willing to sacrifice a small bit of SQ for convenience - otherwise I don't enjoy my setup.

 

So I'm really hoping that AO for Win10 will fill my needs better. At the least, it won't involve the expense and added work of installing and using a new OS.

 

I can't really run Roon yet - it won't run on my server (no Open GL support); but there is soon to be a "headless" version and HQP integration - by the end of the summer apparently - but once all of those things happen I think I'll have what only a few months ago I would have thought was the ultimate setup that could never happen in real life.

 

Yea sorry about the misinfo on Roon. I wasn't aware Pipeline didn't have the built in graphics and thought it was just a driver issue.

 

Once they get the headless version out I think you are in for a real treat. While I haven't delved too much into HQ Player I trust the experiences of those who have and look forward to it when it's integrated. However even now Roon+AO+Fidelizer is that great experience you describe between SQ and easy and great interface.