AC Filtering, Grounding Boxes, Linear PSU and Balanced Power.

[Ralf11]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 large number

 

 

what happened to "many, many"  

[sandyk]

On ‎1‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:09 AM, YashN said:

Despite also integrating my AC FIlter box (so Chassis interlink + AC Filter Box), that external 'grounding' (I think 'external reference' here would be a better term) still made a difference in sound.

 Using an AC filter box in line with some components may even degrade the sound.

I tried fitting a typical commercially available filter like the attached , in line with a Linear +5V USB PSU's AC Input and it made it sound worse.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-EMI-RFI-Filter-AC-250V-10A-CW1D-10A-T-Suppressor-Power-Line-Noise-Filter-/152254296992

[jabbr]

4 hours ago, Speedskater said:

I think of an expert as a person that's work is used as a reference in AES or IEEE papers or text books.

That's not to say that there aren't others with vary valuable information.

You must admit that this definition of “expert” is one of your own creation — you can reference the definition of “expert” in the dictionary for a different, and more widely accepted, version.

 

For me, an individual who has demonstrated the ability to create a widely accepted industry protocol (asynchronous USB) and to build and create products for a number of companies, qualifies as an expert, moreso than a graduate student or assistant prof who submits a paper to AES. An textbook chapters: well known that these are not peer reviewed and don’t count for shit.

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, sandyk said:

 Using an AC filter box in line with some components may even degrade the sound.

I tried fitting a typical commercially available filter like the attached , in line with a Linear +5V USB PSU's AC Input and it made it sound worse.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-EMI-RFI-Filter-AC-250V-10A-CW1D-10A-T-Suppressor-Power-Line-Noise-Filter-/152254296992

The reason it sounds bad is because the neutral is earth referenced, so the symmetry of the T filter becomes a sideways L. 

For this type of filter to work, both lines need to float above earth, such as in an IT system.

 

This filter reflects frequencies back the source, it’s not a low impedance type filter which absorbs energy as in heat. Any noise created by the load is returned to the load, another reason to sound bad.

[jabbr]

14 hours ago, sandyk said:

You may do Audio, but as far as Hi Fi goes, you are way, way  behind a large number of CA. , and I would also say DIY Audio members.

I suppose that you haven't  even yet got around  to upgrading the PSU for your ENTRY LEVEL SBT ?

 

Oh Alex, you can do much better than that.  If we are going to have disagreements, can’t we have something more substantial than taunts which come across as belonging on a playground of prepubescents?

[sandyk]

8 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Oh Alex, you can do much better than that.  If we are going to have disagreements, can’t we have something more substantial than taunts which come across as belonging on a playground of prepubescents?

 

Jabbr

IMHO, there is no way that Marc can make informed  judgements, other than theoretical, on what other C.A. members report hearing, unless he makes marked improvements to the playback equipment that he is currently using !

Marc and myself have a long history dating back to well over 10 years in DIY Audio as well, and he knows just how to take my digs at him, as I do to little digs by him. He is also well aware that DIY Audio member Erin (Electronics Technician) from Melbourne Au. reported hearing similar things to those that I report hearing, BEFORE I even became a C.A. member.

He would also be aware that way back then, I even sent a comparison CD to DIY Audio Moderator member Netlist (Hugo) in Europe,  who listened to it through Line Out of a cheap internal sound card directly into his amplifiers , then did a nasty hatchet job on me , which was shortly after removed.

I also provided comparison .wav files to another couple of DIY Audio members (Sy was one of them) but they listened to them using standard Mac Minis of the time (IIRC) which most C.A. members now realise from the efforts of John Swenson, are capable of being vastly improved WRT their audio performance.

 So yes, Marc and myself have a history, but we also have quite a degree of mutual respect.

You will never see me attacking Marc on anything to do with his day job, only his pronouncements where he attempts to link the performance of audio from a P.C. directly to his proven expertise in what he does for a living.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, One and a half said:

The reason it sounds bad is because the neutral is earth referenced, so the symmetry of the T filter becomes a sideways L. 

For this type of filter to work, both lines need to float above earth, such as in an IT system.

 

This filter reflects frequencies back the source, it’s not a low impedance type filter which absorbs energy as in heat. Any noise created by the load is returned to the load, another reason to sound bad.

 

 Yet these same types of filters are supplied over the counter by Australian suppliers such as Jaycar, which is where I actually bought mine originally.

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, sandyk said:

Jabbr

IMHO, there is no way that Marc can make informed  judgements, other than theoretical, on what other C.A. members report hearing, unless he makes marked improvements to the playback equipment that he is currently using !

 

I don’t read @marce making generally judgements about what other people report hearing. 

 

I find this discussion somewhat amusing, frankly, and nothing personal, but as someone interested in the computer audio hobby, I relish understanding the physics which underlies the electrical complexities, and from the basic equations, the network of interconnections becomes much less so easily understandable. 

 

But anyways if we are trying to untangle the spaghetti (and clean up the sound in the meantime) denying the underlying physics leads one in a hopeless misdirection — that’s my strong bias.

 

 

[sandyk]

6 minutes ago, jabbr said:

But anyways if we are trying to untangle the spaghetti (and clean up the sound in the meantime) denying the underlying physics leads one in a hopeless misdirection — that’s my strong bias.

 

 What makes you so sure that relying solely on the known underlying physics, as many here apparently do, doesn't lead you in a hopeless misdirection ?

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 What makes you so sure that relying solely on the known underlying physics, as many here apparently do, doesn't lead you in a hopeless misdirection ?

No one is requiring you to rely solely on any one thing but consider that I drive across a bridge daily and it supports millions of cars a year, and I use my cell phone daily as do billions of people, and we built the internet which allows us to communicate as do billions of people every day.  Our modern world is surrounded by technological accomplishments which prove that physics makes real predictions, 

 

Pit that against your own ears and mind? Maxwells equations are ageibg more gracefully than you my friend ?

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 What makes you so sure that relying solely on the known underlying physics, as many here apparently do, doesn't lead you in a hopeless misdirection ?

 

 

known??

 

you might want to read up on physics - we aren't exactly on the edge of the physics research frontier with any audio equipment

 

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

No one is requiring you to rely solely on any one thing but consider that I drive across a bridge daily and it supports millions of cars a year, and I use my cell phone daily as do billions of people, and we built the internet which allows us to communicate as do billions of people every day.  Our modern world is surrounded by technological accomplishments which prove that physics makes real predictions, 

 

Pit that against your own ears and mind? Maxwells equations are ageibg more gracefully than you my friend ?

 

Yet they still sometimes get things wrong, like the overpass over a Freeway collapsing, and just as you got the intent of what I was saying wrong !

 I am not knocking Physics, just those who seem to think all the Textbooks are 100% correct and everything that we need to know in electronics is already known. Other examples are the Blue Pill , Red Pill thread, which highly suggests that we still have things to learn, and the disputing by some that the contributions by Gordon Rankin etc. are of importance, simply because they weren't from some Academic and published and approved by an Engineering Society or other Scientific body.

[wushuliu]

You know here's a crazy idea: what if we all crowd-funded several rigorously conducted audiophile-related tests instead of bickering over the same stuff over and over again? Isn't that what real scientific inquiry is about?

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, wushuliu said:

You know here's a crazy idea: what if we all crowd-funded several rigorously conducted audiophile-related tests instead of bickering over the same stuff over and over again? Isn't that what real scientific inquiry is about?

One  example where we do this already is with our purchases from Uptone Audio and Sonore where the business owners hire John Swenson and fund his research activities.

 

John is currently building a test rig for clocking to better understand what happens from one end of the chain to another. Once done he plans to design the so called EtherRegen based on what he learns.

 

John has the best track record of researching and delivering results in the digital domain of audio engineer that I know. I'm grateful for his effort.

 

So not such a crazy idea after all.

[marce]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

One  example where we do this already is with our purchases from Uptone Audio and Sonore where the business owners hire John Swenson and fund his research activities.

 

John is currently building a test rig for clocking to understand what happens from one end of the chain to another. Once done he plans to design the so called EtherRegen based on what he learns.

There is a wealth of Ethernet information out there already! A network analyser is a good start, and EMC lab for noise measurements... Ethernet started of as a single cable with a GNC connector, when I fist started doing Ethernet boards, it has developed quite a bit since then and the amount of information available is wide spread and very comprehensive.

And as a digital information highway it works... It doesn't even care what data it is transmitting, it just transmits it.

[marce]

22 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Oh Alex, you can do much better than that.  If we are going to have disagreements, can’t we have something more substantial than taunts which come across as belonging on a playground of prepubescents?

Love it.

Forget my open baffle speakers with 4X15" woofers driven by a SET for midrange , my recently gone KEF 104/2 and back loaded horn, or even my Wharfedale panels, some near field Tannoy actibe monitors, audiolab gear, micromega gear, kenwood and technics gear, even threw a Marantz CD63 away just before we moved.

So while not GUTB territory I have listed to stuff and still do on differing systems and speakers, oh and some open baffle headphones. Had a fair bit of kit over the years, it was when I discovered basic listening tests and how much we are affected by bias that I stopped worrying so much and enjoyed the music.........

 

[lmitche]

10 minutes ago, marce said:

There is a wealth of Ethernet information out there already! A network analyser is a good start, and EMC lab for noise measurements... Ethernet started of as a single cable with a GNC connector, when I fist started doing Ethernet boards, it has developed quite a bit since then and the amount of information available is wide spread and very comprehensive.

And as a digital information highway it works... It doesn't even care what data it is transmitting, it just transmits it.

Another tiresome vanity post. Marce please build something we can buy or tell us something that we can do ourselves to improve SQ. Otherwise your posts are wasting space. Having to read about your vast experience and brilliant thinking over and over is really annoying.

[marce]

No it isn't a vanity post its reality mate...

Just because my comments don't fit in with your view of reality...

You don't want to listen to how sound quality can be improved from the likes of me, because again it does not fit in with your little corner of the universe.

Listening to you dis me because what I say does not fit in with your reality pisses me off, sorry for the language, but I am sick of people like you, the three muppeteers from Audiostream et al going on about someone who, instead of just jumping on the bandwagon and claiming to have discovered the next best sound improvements, like to learn and investigate changes.

So it dosen't fit with your view of the world, sorry but what I say is based on known physical laws and engineering practice, that how come you have all this technology around you, that allows you to discuss the next level of veils being lifted from the sound....

Vanity posts are where someone declares the next massive step in sound improvement based on ears only and no technical content, LOL.

[marce]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

One  example where we do this already is with our purchases from Uptone Audio and Sonore where the business owners hire John Swenson and fund his research activities.

 

John is currently building a test rig for clocking to better understand what happens from one end of the chain to another. Once done he plans to design the so called EtherRegen based on what he learns.

 

John has the best track record of researching and delivering results in the digital domain of audio engineer that I know. I'm grateful for his effort.

 

So not such a crazy idea after all.

NOT another true believer audiophile vanity post...

Oh by the way every switch is a regen...

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, marce said:

NOT another true believer audiophile vanity post...

Oh by the way every switch is a regen...

Marce, let me make it simple, PUT UP or SHUT UP!

[marce]

12 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Marce, let me make it simple, PUT UP or SHUT UP!

Sorry, your telling me what to do now...

Put up with what, care to explain...

You want to censor me because you don't agree with the responses I put that are based on known science and physic's, maybe you should open your eyes a little and instead of posting silly little comments to have a go at me put something up of substance. If you bothered to read my sensible posts ( unlike this one where I have to bicker with the children in the playground) like the one on the previous page where I gave some information for creating a low noise clock with the best signal integrity, they do tend to have some relevant information... Then the flac starts, its a joke...

So what should I put up with and why should I shut up and more importantly what gives you the right to tell me to shut up. Its an open forum and discussion, one which I was out off until my name kept being mentioned.

[lmitche]

40 minutes ago, marce said:

Sorry, your telling me what to do now...

Put up with what, care to explain...

You want to censor me because you don't agree with the responses I put that are based on known science and physic's, maybe you should open your eyes a little and instead of posting silly little comments to have a go at me put something up of substance. If you bothered to read my sensible posts ( unlike this one where I have to bicker with the children in the playground) like the one on the previous page where I gave some information for creating a low noise clock with the best signal integrity, they do tend to have some relevant information... Then the flac starts, its a joke...

So what should I put up with and why should I shut up and more importantly what gives you the right to tell me to shut up. Its an open forum and discussion, one which I was out off until my name kept being mentioned.

Marce,

 

I respond to a post from a new member that his suggested funding model for CA research and development is in indeed operative in a fashion right here on CA. I give him specific examples, names of the organizations, the people involved, current research and a description of the effort underway. 

 

You respond by making the post about yourself, your vast knowledge and belittle the effort.

 

So where are we now?  We are talking about you.

 

I believe you.  You clearly know what you are talking about, the physics,  grasp of the issues at hand, and years of experience. You are consistent about telling us how great you are at this stuff in post after post.  Yet when trying to find a single post with an idea or suggestion or discovery that you have shared that can be used by other members of the community, I can't find one instance. I may be wrong, but I don't see it. I'd even pay for something that executed on your ideas.

 

Does that answer your question? Just give us something we can use.  This is the wrong audience for another lecture on PCB construction, at least for the vast majority of us.

 

 

 

 

[marce]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Marce,

 

I respond to a post from a new member that his suggested funding model for CA research and development is in indeed operative in a fashion right here on CA. I give him specific examples, names of the organizations, the people involved, current research and a description of the effort underway. 

 

You respond by making the post about yourself, your vast knowledge and belittle the effort.

 

So where are we now?  We are talking about you.

 

I believe you.  You clearly know what you are talking about, the physics,  grasp of the issues at hand, and years of experience. You are consistent about telling us how great you are at this stuff in post after post.  Yet when trying to find a single post with an idea or suggestion or discovery that you have shared that can be used by other members of the community, I can't find one instance. I may be wrong, but I don't see it. I'd even pay for something that executed on your ideas.

 

Does that answer your question? Just give us something we can use.  This is the wrong audience for another lecture on PCB construction, at least for the vast majority of us.

 

 

 

 

No what he was on about was different than your post about JS working for Uptone and Sonore, totally different...

It was not a post about PCB construction it was a post about Ethernet and how much info is out there already. I don't actually say how great I am, sorry... though I have defended myself when insulted or put down there is a difference.

So none of the information I have put up has been of any use, probably because its based on physics and wont apeal to you because as I have said non of what I say or do fits your agenda, anyway enough, I cannot be bothered arguing the toss with you anymore say what you wan't, better things to do, I also wont put you on an ignore list because I don't have one and don't believe in them, its self censorship and in my mind a bit petty for a forum such as this, so I have to suffer reading other peoples views often that I have some disagreement with...

Ain't life a bugger.

Whoops meant:

 

[wushuliu]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

One  example where we do this already is with our purchases from Uptone Audio and Sonore where the business owners hire John Swenson and fund his research activities.

 

John is currently building a test rig for clocking to better understand what happens from one end of the chain to another. Once done he plans to design the so called EtherRegen based on what he learns.

 

John has the best track record of researching and delivering results in the digital domain of audio engineer that I know. I'm grateful for his effort.

 

So not such a crazy idea after all.

 

Great news. Thanks for the info. I am trying to catch up right now on Swenson's posts related to AC...

[Albrecht]

3 hours ago, marce said:

NOT another true believer audiophile vanity post...

Oh by the way every switch is a regen...

""Oh by the way every switch is a regen...""

 

LOL!!  Now that is high comedy. In your (implied) words, prove it.