in your experience flac files always bettered mp3 files

[goldsdad]

I'm not sure Tom ... usually where Linn are converting from DSD they convert to 88.2 so a 24/96 would indicate its not passed through DSD.

 

Linn Records has released numerous 24/96 PCM conversions from DSD. In any case, regardless of the sampling frequency, the Too Darn Hot files have an ultrasonic noise profile which matches the characteristic profile of known conversions from DSD to PCM. The noise has been attenuated somewhat by a low-pass filter, and I'm sure someone in the forum can use the resulting profile to identify which converter was probably employed.

[ranocchio]

Linn Records has released numerous 24/96 PCM conversions from DSD. In any case, regardless of the sampling frequency, the Too Darn Hot files have an ultrasonic noise profile which matches the characteristic profile of known conversions from DSD to PCM. The noise has been attenuated somewhat by a low-pass filter, and I'm sure someone in the forum can use the resulting profile to identify which converter was probably employed.

 

Dear goldsdad

 

i am a former Linn customer (linn sondek ,trampolin,lingo;linn mimik ;av 5140 speakers ;i still have all this gear);when

 

i needed a new spring set from my turntable (tuning by myself )i was answered from the authorised seller in milan

 

that there were no more available (obviously not true )because Linn was no more interested in analogue .(go figure!)

 

So Linn ,sometimes ,does not put enogh attention to products distribution ;i think this goes for digital too (say digital)

 

Anyway i think this it'a little bit out of topic .

 

So ,if we were interested to real music (not zin zin music for las vegas ces or other european shows)we are not interested

 

in Linn files :these are samples to make every piece of gear sound pleasent.

 

I prefer a real music Mp3 than a zin zin audiophile sample .

 

Anyway my intention in startin g this topic was to focus on a general interest on music which is produced every day

 

(and most of that music is from people from 20 to 30 years old )considerig that young people are mp3 or vynil

 

customer ;and surely they have a better hearing of us (i am an Ent doctor )So .... i had very interesting answers ,

 

but i think that discussing if Linn converted their files from Dsd or upsampled from 16/44 it's not so interesting ,

 

because it's not the real world of music .

 

Without offense and always in my opinion

[ranocchio]

Linn Records has released numerous 24/96 PCM conversions from DSD. In any case, regardless of the sampling frequency, the Too Darn Hot files have an ultrasonic noise profile which matches the characteristic profile of known conversions from DSD to PCM. The noise has been attenuated somewhat by a low-pass filter, and I'm sure someone in the forum can use the resulting profile to identify which converter was probably employed.

 

Dear goldsdad

 

i am a former Linn customer (linn sondek ,trampolin,lingo;linn mimik ;av 5140 speakers ;i still have all this gear);when

 

i needed a new spring set from my turntable (tuning by myself )i was answered from the authorised seller in milan

 

that there were no more available (obviously not true )because Linn was no more interested in analogue .(go figure!)

 

So Linn ,sometimes ,does not put enogh attention to products distribution ;i think this goes for digital too (say digital)

 

Anyway i think this it'a little bit out of topic .

 

So ,if we were interested to real music (not zin zin music for las vegas ces or other european shows)we are not interested

 

in Linn files :these are samples to make every piece of gear sound pleasent.

 

I prefer a real music Mp3 than a zin zin audiophile sample .

 

Anyway my intention in startin g this topic was to focus on a general interest on music which is produced every day

 

(and most of that music is from people from 20 to 30 years old )considerig that young people are mp3 or vynil

 

customer ;and surely they have a better hearing of us (i am an Ent doctor )So .... i had very interesting answers ,

 

but i think that discussing if Linn converted their files from Dsd or upsampled from 16/44 it's not so interesting ,

 

because it's not the real world of music .

 

Without offense and always in my opinion

[goldsdad]

I agree. This may have been "well recorded 24/96" at one time but the download that Linn sells isn't. It is almost certainly a conversion from DSD. The high-frequency information you see in the image I uploaded is a dead giveaway.

 

Tom, did you notice the 16-22 kHz band of noise (easily seen overlaying the silence at the end) which looks so much like dither, and therefore suggests the source for the DSD was 16-bit 44.1 kHz PCM?

 

I can't rip the SACD layer, but below is the spectrogram for the title track, Too Darn Hot, ripped from Red Book layer of the hybrid disc. It can be seen to have been steeply filtered at 19 kHz, exactly like the 24/96, and has a dither band from 16 to 22 kHz, exactly like the 24/96.

 

I'm pretty confident that Sandy's "well recorded 24/96" is basically a CD master converted to DSD then converted to 24/96.

 

[kumakuma]

Tom, did you notice the 16-22 kHz band of noise (easily seen overlaying the silence at the end) which looks so much like dither, and therefore suggests the source for the DSD was 16-bit 44.1 kHz PCM?

 

I can't rip the SACD layer, but below is the spectrogram for the title track, Too Darn Hot, ripped from Red Book layer of the hybrid disc. It can be seen to have been steeply filtered at 19 kHz, exactly like the 24/96, and has a dither band from 16 to 22 kHz, exactly like the 24/96.

 

I'm pretty confident that Sandy's "well recorded 24/96" is basically a CD master converted to DSD then converted to 24/96.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19500[/ATTACH]

 

I agree with your analysis.

 

BTW, the "CD quality" version that Linn sells on their site has similar filtering:

 

 

"CD Quality" file purchased July 1, 2015 from Linn site

 

This limits the upper frequency to what you get from the mp3 version that they sell:

 

 

mp3 file purchased July 1, 2015 from Linn site

 

 

"Studio Master" (24/96) file purchased June 30, 2015 from Linn site

[goldsdad]

I agree with your analysis.

 

BTW, the "CD quality" version that Linn sells on their site has similar filtering:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19502[/ATTACH]

 

This limits the upper frequency to what you get from the mp3 version that they sell:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19503[/ATTACH]

 

 

And your mention of mp3 brings us back on topic for ranocchio.

[sandyk]

I agree with Eloise about the conversions normally being to 88.2. I do agree that there appears to be SACD involved here judging by the HF rubbish, but that does not necessarily mean that the original source was 44.1. It may have even been from tape ?

Alex

 

P.S.

By "well recorded", I meant in comparison with the other Claire Martin recordings that I have heard. This album appears to have far less processing done to it.

[goldsdad]

It may have even been from tape ?

 

A tape that somehow hit a brick wall at 22.05 kHz and had a band of noise above 16 kHz that just happened to look exactly like dither? Seems a bit far-fetched to me.

[kumakuma]

...but that does not necessarily mean that the original source was 44.1.

 

The more important issue here is that the only difference between Linn's 24/96 "Studio Master" and their "CD Quality" version is $12 worth of ultrasonic noise.

[sandyk]

The more important issue here is that the only difference between Linn's 24/96 "Studio Master" and their "CD Quality" version is $12 worth of ultrasonic noise.

 

Possibly. But I don't intend purchasing the CD to find out.

Attached is the highest resolution SF9 Spectrum Analysis.

Alex

 

[goldsdad]

The more important issue here is that the only difference between Linn's 24/96 "Studio Master" and their "CD Quality" version is $12 worth of ultrasonic noise.

 

Don't forget the bonus multiple conversion distortions that your $12 buys.

[kumakuma]

Possibly. But I don't intend purchasing the CD to find out.

Attached is the highest resolution SF9 Spectrum Analysis.

Alex

 

 

As I mentioned above, Linn allows the purchase of individual tracks so I purchased the Studio Master, CD, and mp3 versions of the title track (Too Darn Hot). As expected, they all sound pretty much the same.

 

Thanks for posting this image. It looks the same as what MusicScope gave me (no music content above 22.5 kHz, ultrasonic noise, etc.). I wonder why the ultrasonic crap is only in one channel through.

 

BTW, is there any particular reason why you use Image Shack for sharing images rather than the insert image feature in the forum?

[kumakuma]

Don't forget the bonus multiple conversion distortions that your $12 buys.

 

That one's priceless.

[sandyk]

Perhaps someone has some idea of what the attached screengrab is telling us ? It's similar at both the beginning and end of the track.It's magnified noise .

 

[goldsdad]

Possibly. But I don't intend purchasing the CD to find out.

Attached is the highest resolution SF9 Spectrum Analysis.

Alex

 

 

 

Slightly cleaner but still very bitty. By the way, you've again got the right channel boosted by several dB. Isn't that a gain slider that's been nudged to the right, under that channel?

[goldsdad]

I wonder why the ultrasonic crap is only in one channel through.

 

Either the audio or the graph has been boosted on that channel in Sound Forge - look at the off-centre slider under the right channel.

[kumakuma]

Slightly cleaner but still very bitty. By the way, you've again got the right channel boosted by several dB. Isn't that a gain slider that's been nudged to the right, under that channel?

 

That answers my question about why the ultrasonic noise is more prevalent in one channel.

[sandyk]

Hey, I haven't had my wake up coffee yet !

[goldsdad]

Perhaps someone has some idea of what the attached screengrab is telling us ? It's similar at both the beginning and end of the track.It's magnified noise .

 

 

 

That'll be the $12 worth of ultrasonic noise from the DSD intermediary.

[sandyk]

Make what you will of this :

What does Studio Master Quality (24-bit) mean and how do I play it?

 

These files are the actual Studio Master Quality files that we normally use to produce the CD. Over the years we have recorded music using various types of recording equipment and the Studio Master Quality series of downloads reflects the development of our recording methods. There is no absolute "best" recording format. In fact there are greater differences between types and makes of recording equipment than there are between formats. We used the best equipment available at the time which means that different recording formats were used. We have not converted these files in any way. If we had converted them to a common format it is possible that some losses or imperfections would be introduced so we decided against doing this.

[sandyk]

Goldsdad and Kumakuma

I have sent an email to Linn asking about the provenance of these 24/96 Studio Master DL's.

I also attached a copy of the SF9 Spectrum Analysis, pointing out the severe HF roll off at 19kHZ and the low level wideband HF noise.

 

Alex

[kumakuma]

Goldsdad and Kumakuma

I have sent an email to Linn asking about the provenance of these 24/96 Studio Master DL's.

I also attached a copy of the SF9 Spectrum Analysis, pointing out the severe HF roll off at 19kHZ and the low level wideband HF noise.

 

Alex

 

It will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

[goldsdad]

Goldsdad and Kumakuma

I have sent an email to Linn asking about the provenance of these 24/96 Studio Master DL's.

I also attached a copy of the SF9 Spectrum Analysis, pointing out the severe HF roll off at 19kHZ and the low level wideband HF noise.

 

Alex

 

My breath is bated

[sandyk]

It will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

 

Tom

Unlike some other Recording Companies, Linn was I feel ,very upfront with detailed information about this recording .

I agree with Linn that this particular album still sounds pretty good, even by today's standards.

Regards

Alex

 

I received this message from someone involved in the recording process:

 

Too Darn Hot dates from 2002, when recording technology was rather different to what we have today. It is also interesting because it was one of the very first projects to be mixed to DSD and was an early SACD release.

 

Of course this is a studio album with a significant amount of multi-tracking . The DSD recorders at the time could only cope with 8 tracks maximum - so you could master to them but they were no use for Multitracking.

 

At the time the best multitrack recorder we had was a prototype version of the Ardis ( later Augan) digital recorder, which sounded exceedingly good but which sampled at 48kz/24bits. We mixed in the analogue domain and then recorded the mix onto the DSD recorder. When we came to make the Studio master files many years later, the best source we had was the DSD master, which we transcoded to PCM.

 

I hope this clarifies matters. It’s not the way we would choose to record an album today, but at the time it was the best method we had, and I think the album still sounds pretty good after all these years.

 

 

[kumakuma]

Tom

Unlike some other Recording Companies, Linn was I feel ,very upfront with detailed information about this recording .

I agree with Linn that this particular album still sounds pretty good, even by today's standards.

Regards

Alex

 

Alex,

 

Thanks for sharing this. It is good that Linn is willing to share this information. I also agree that the album sounds pretty good despite the convoluted way in which was created.

 

All the best,

 

Tom