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ripping vinyl (2015 remix)


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got a friend. going against the flow of the “resurgence” = vinyl >> digital. maybe he’s getting old(er). or, wants to feel young(er). likely both.

point being, he wants to rip some vinyl. to highest-res as practical. at home.

in the 2015 context, would appreciate some feedback/advice on suitable equipment (hardware + software) & workflow that will “preserve the goodness of analogue". whatever (and all) that means.

please help with some advice?

thanks.

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If he wants to declick and decrackle, then PCM is the way to go - 192/24 is what I would recommend as the highest practical. Otherwise, he can do DSD. Depends on his budget as to what to use. I've done more vinyl ripping than just about anyone, but using high end pro equipment - all 192/24. I don't have any experience with Pure Vinyl or Audacity or the Tascam or other recorders.

 

Remember, everything is at least in real time - so it takes about an hour to rip, separate tracks, label, etc. and more if you do processing. It has taken me 5 years + to do 10,000 records and tapes.

 

Larry

 

PS. Including TT, cartridge, phono preamp, software, ADAC, certainly it can get up there ($50K+) or you can buy a USB equipped TT for $100 that plugs into your computer.

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp

Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105

Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files

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astrotoy,

 

thanks for the quick response. being a vinyl collector, he already has a pretty decent TT, cart and phono pre-amp. + quite a number of computers (mac and PC).

 

so, it is more the software and ADC. budget-wise, think he would not flinch (much) @ $5-10k... if the SQ is "preserved."

 

in today's context, what would you get? ease of use would be a consideration (newbie factor).

 

cheers.

 

p.s. oh yes, he's going to "like" that real-time bit too. LOL.

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I use a Lynx Hilo for ADC duties while recording. Like Atrotoy, I record to 24:192 and I use Izotope's RX3 (now it's at v4) for cleanup. The workflow is; play a loud section of the album and figure out the peak levels you want to record at; setup VinylStudio to collect the digital file; record the album in real time; seperate tracks and add metadata using VinylStudio; process individual PCM files in RX3 if needed (declick, vinyl noise, etc.); then import the album (digital files properly nested into folders) into your digital storage. It takes about 1 to 1.5 hours to record a typical album, ~1 hour with no post processing (RX3) and up to 1.5 hours if I post process all of the tracks.

 

BTW - RX3 (or 4) has a very cool inverse filter function for removing vinyl noise (not clicks, the noise you sometimes get between tracks). You play a clean segment (usually between tracks), have the filter learn that sound, and then have it create an inverse function to remove the sound. Between that and declicking, RX3 has done a good job salvaging some pretty beat up albums.

 

Also - While VinylStudio can be used to declick, RX3 actually allows you to hear the clicks being removed. This is very cool because if you hear a note in there you know to adjust the declick level.

Analog: Koetsu Rosewood > VPI Aries 3 w/SDS > EAR 834P > EAR 834L: Audiodesk cleaner

Digital Fun: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (JRMC) SOtM USB > Lynx Hilo > EAR 834L

Digital Serious: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (HQPlayer) Ethernet > SMS-100 NAA > Lampi DSD L4 G5 > EAR 834L

Digital Disc: Oppo BDP 95 > EAR 834L

Output: EAR 834L > Xilica XP4080 DSP > Odessey Stratos Mono Extreme > Legacy Aeris

Phones: EAR 834L > Little Dot Mk ii > Senheiser HD 800

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I learned from experience not to skimp on the quality of the ADC. A poor quality unit (which may be acceptable for the spoken word) will lose all sense of sonic space and musical momentum.

 

Of course, your friend will make sure his records are cleaned on his RCM before he does the transfer. Required!

2013 MacBook Pro Retina -> {Pure Music | Audirvana} -> {Dragonfly Red v.1} -> AKG K-702 or Sennheiser HD650 headphones.

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For software, if on a Mac, check out Pure Music which includes Pure Vinyl.

 

CHANNEL D - Pure Vinyl

 

Don't know if it is better than Vinyl Studio or not.

 

Now lots of people would suggest recording in DSD 128. Korg typically was the go to converter for DSD, but there are other choices in the budget mentioned.

 

Myself, I would be happy with 96/24 or 192/24 rips using a very good converter. Maybe a Weiss or Lavry or Benchmark is worth considering.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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I tried an earlier version of Sonic Studio (the pro recording version of Amarra) when I first started my project. However, I ended up choosing Pyramix and the Merging Technologies Mykerinos Card. However, I don't have any experience with the current versions of the software or the stand alone recorders.

 

The other posters have much more knowledge and experience with these choices.

 

I would second the recommendation of Izotope. I started with RX2 and have moved up to RX3 Advanced. From what I understand RX4 has additional features which may not be useful for vinyl ripping. I could be wrong there.

 

Again my ADAC is considered by many as the holy grail, Pacific Microsonics Model Two, but is very rare and pricey used with only about 150 made and mostly found in mastering and recording studios.

 

Larry

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp

Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105

Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files

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My entire record collection (all 15K records) have been cleaned by various VPI record machines over the years, beginning in the mid '80's with one of their first machines. I switched to Disk Doctor brushes and fluids about a decade or more ago and used the VPI to vacuum off the fluids and distilled water rinses. Then fairly early on in my ripping project, about 4 years ago I got an Audio Desk System ultrasonic cleaner and recleaned all the records using that before ripping. There were a few records that I bought, both new and used in the past four years that have only been cleaned with the Audio Desk, but they are in the small minority. Almost all the records have been cleaned at least twice, some three times. In addition, I have an Air Tight Record Flattener that I use for warped records (the warped ones are essentially all dish warps for which the Air Tight is very good). Both the Air Tight and Audio Desk are around $4K each. There is a newer ultrasonic cleaner, the KLA which has gotten excellent reviews, but having spent $4K on the Audio Desk and being happy with the results, I haven't taken the plunge.

 

Larry

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp

Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105

Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files

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For the very poor records you could use Titebond II wood glue. Spread a good layer of glue on the record. Let dry overnight. It peels off in one piece. Doesn't bond to vinyl, but will pull pretty much everything else out of the groove. Look in the Vinyl Challenge thread for more info.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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got a friend. going against the flow of the “resurgence” = vinyl >> digital. maybe he’s getting old(er). or, wants to feel young(er). likely both.

point being, he wants to rip some vinyl. to highest-res as practical. at home.

in the 2015 context, would appreciate some feedback/advice on suitable equipment (hardware + software) & workflow that will “preserve the goodness of analogue". whatever (and all) that means.

please help with some advice?

thanks.

 

Obviously, you need a good turntable and cartridge that's properly set up. After that, it's all down to the quality of the recorder. Ideally, you want up to 24/192 PCM or 1/5.66 MHz DSD resolution.

 

To my mind, you also need to consider whether you want to record to an outboard unit or directly to a computer. I far prefer using an outboard unit as it seperates the tasks of recording and then processing and mastering.

 

That is, if you record to a computer you're forced to babysit while the album is playing and any computer issues can affect the recording. With an outboard unit, it installs to the monitor output of your preamp where it can record whatever is being played.

 

I use a Korg MR2000S, a professional grade studio recorder intended for final two track mixdown recording. They are no longer being made but can still be found. I upgraded mine from an 80 to a 320GB hard drive. I've also heard a lot of good things about the Tascam DA-3000 which is a current model.

 

With the outboard unit, I simply cue the recorder to pause, and then record the album that's being played. Hit pause when flipping over and run it again. I'll record up to 24 albums or so before uploading them to a laptop for conversion, processing and mastering.

 

As far as that goes, my theory has always been that if the album is in good condition little processing should be done other than maybe a light crackle filter. The odd scratch of short duration can be easily edited manually.

 

The DSD recording from the Korg is converted to a 24/96 FLAC file as a single long track for an LP. I could convert to 24/192 but don't really hear a difference. I do keep a copy of the original DSD recording as well.

 

Like many, I use VinylStudio to process and master. The software is cheap and very fast. It will do an internet lookup of a number of databases for the cover art, track times and track names. I usually edit out delay time for the runout groove or from when I didn't get to the recorder to hit pause in good time.

 

I find you usually need to tweak the markers for the track start locations as they don't make allowances for silence between tracks, but that's easily done. The final result is with the album stored in it's own folder with the tracks and cover art.

 

As with ripping CD's, you need to consider the naming convention you want to use for the albums before you start so that over the years there will be some consistency.

 

I use Album Artist/Album Title/Artist - Track Name - Track Number.

 

Hope this helps. I really found that the outboard unit made recording a painless and transparent task. Moving the processing and mastering to a seperate stage allows me to focus and concentrate on doing only that.

 

As others have stated, however, this is no small task. Processing and mastering can be as little as ten to fifteen minutes for an LP, which for most rock records isn't an issue.

 

For classical, jazz or anything not with an online database you may have to enter track information and times manually, as well as taking a picture of the album cover. Classical is particularly frustrating as there are so many recordings of the same piece. Fortunately, VinylStudio allows a search by the catalog number that can help.

 

When recording my father's collection of 10" LP's from the 40's and 50's, that was true for virtually every one with all information entered by hand and with a digital photo taken for the cover art.

 

Let us know how it all works out! Once it's setup and working well it becomes a matter of routine, but is still a labor of love.

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Quite a bit of real world experience on this thread. I am curious to hear about your cleaning routines before transcribing. Both for good and poor condition LPs.

 

I had a VPI 16.5, now I have moved on to an AudioDesk US RCM - and will never go back. I like the idea of contact less cleaning and the mirror finish of the AudioDesk certainly builds your confidence that it is clean.

Analog: Koetsu Rosewood > VPI Aries 3 w/SDS > EAR 834P > EAR 834L: Audiodesk cleaner

Digital Fun: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (JRMC) SOtM USB > Lynx Hilo > EAR 834L

Digital Serious: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (HQPlayer) Ethernet > SMS-100 NAA > Lampi DSD L4 G5 > EAR 834L

Digital Disc: Oppo BDP 95 > EAR 834L

Output: EAR 834L > Xilica XP4080 DSP > Odessey Stratos Mono Extreme > Legacy Aeris

Phones: EAR 834L > Little Dot Mk ii > Senheiser HD 800

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  • 2 weeks later...

astrotoy / esldude / flatmap / gstanley / jabs1542 / SJK…

on behalf of my friend, thank you all very much for all the info and directions.

hardware he is now looking at = lynx hilo (TB version) @ 2.6k to do 24/192 rips.

software-wise, he will try easier vinylstudio @ 30 bucks first, with an option to upgrade to izotope rx4 @ 350 if he feels the need for more manipulations.

appreciate the kindness, folks.

cheers.

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The biggest difference between Izotope and VinylStudio is that with RX4 you can hear the negative of your intended filter. That is, if your running Declick then you can listen to the clicks being removed. The value here is that you can hear when music sneaks in under the filter, now you know that the current filter setting is doing harm to the music and you can adjust the setting. The vinyl Denoise filter is better in RX4 as well.

 

Otherwise VinylStudio has stepped up their game to where it pretty much has all of the same filters that Izotope has.

Analog: Koetsu Rosewood > VPI Aries 3 w/SDS > EAR 834P > EAR 834L: Audiodesk cleaner

Digital Fun: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (JRMC) SOtM USB > Lynx Hilo > EAR 834L

Digital Serious: DAS > CAPS v3 w/LPS (HQPlayer) Ethernet > SMS-100 NAA > Lampi DSD L4 G5 > EAR 834L

Digital Disc: Oppo BDP 95 > EAR 834L

Output: EAR 834L > Xilica XP4080 DSP > Odessey Stratos Mono Extreme > Legacy Aeris

Phones: EAR 834L > Little Dot Mk ii > Senheiser HD 800

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