Roon Sound Quality

[Cemil]

My first exposure to Computer Audio was many years ago, when I had a (pre-Meridian) Sooloos demo at a dealer. Despite the fact that this was an early, just released version, I drooled at the UI, but was neither willing to take the financial plunge, nor had the space (or permission from my wife ) to accommodate a touch screen in my living room. Time passed and I am currently using Amarra on a Mac mini, and I am very happy with it, despite the iTunes interface.

 

Soon seems to finally bridge that gap and will hopefully/eventually provide a Sooloos type UI to a headless Mac mini controlled by a tablet. their web site is highly uninformative, so I have to rely to the few reviews out there for information. I've seen Chris' 30 minutes video on it and read through the thread here, but I am still unclear on a couple of fundamental points, which I hope someone will clarify for me:

 

1- Is Roon just a UI or does it also replace the 'sound engine'? For example, I am currently using Amarra as the 'sound engine' and iTunes as the UI - will Roon just replace iTunes, or both Amarra and iTunes ?

2- If both, is this mandatory or optional? i.e. can I configure Roon to work with Amarra ?

3- If not, what does Roon sound like compared to the others (Amarra etc..)? I find it surpassing that I am not able to find any mention of this. All the discussions/reviews seems to be concentrated on the UI, payment methods and so on.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Cemil

[Audio_ELF]

1- Is Roon just a UI or does it also replace the 'sound engine'? For example, I am currently using Amarra as the 'sound engine' and iTunes as the UI - will Roon just replace iTunes, or both Amarra and iTunes ?

Its a full player - both UI and 'sound engine'

 

2- If both, is this mandatory or optional? i.e. can I configure Roon to work with Amarra ?

Currently its mandatory - though there are discussions over working with HQPlayer and possibly other 'sound engines' as things go forward.

 

3- If not, what does Roon sound like compared to the others (Amarra etc..)? I find it surpassing that I am not able to find any mention of this. All the discussions/reviews seems to be concentrated on the UI, payment methods and so on.

Sorry can't comment.

[orgel]

3- If not, what does Roon sound like compared to the others (Amarra etc..)? I find it surpassing that I am not able to find any mention of this.

 

Just my opinion, but currently, Roon sounds good but not as good as my preferred playback software, Audirvana+. I attribute this primarily to Roon's lack of upsampling/filtering controls. It's very important, though, to realize that Roon is very much a work in progress, and (again, IMO) its SQ has improved in the short time since its release. As Eloise mentioned, the Roon team is very gung ho about making Roon the best it can be (including an openness to partnering with Miska/Jussi and/or others with similar extraordinary talents), so the potential is there for Roon's SQ to evolve fairly quickly into something that's SOTA.

 

I'll also point out that I'm happy using Roon and A+ for different purposes, as others have noted. If I want to listen to particular music and/or listen "seriously," then I fire up A+. OTOH, if I want to explore, discover new music, or read a bit about music I want to learn more about, then Roon offers an unparalleled experience (though admittedly, there are still some kinks to be worked out).

 

If you really want to get into the weeds with Roon, the best place is probably the Roon Labs forum.

 

--David

[Priaptor]

Just my opinion, but currently, Roon sounds good but not as good as my preferred playback software, Audirvana+. I attribute this primarily to Roon's lack of upsampling/filtering controls. It's very important, though, to realize that Roon is very much a work in progress, and (again, IMO) its SQ has improved in the short time since its release. As Eloise mentioned, the Roon team is very gung ho about making Roon the best it can be (including an openness to partnering with Miska/Jussi and/or others with similar extraordinary talents), so the potential is there for Roon's SQ to evolve fairly quickly into something that's SOTA.

 

I'll also point out that I'm happy using Roon and A+ for different purposes, as others have noted. If I want to listen to particular music and/or listen "seriously," then I fire up A+. OTOH, if I want to explore, discover new music, or read a bit about music I want to learn more about, then Roon offers an unparalleled experience (though admittedly, there are still some kinks to be worked out).

 

If you really want to get into the weeds with Roon, the best place is probably the Roon Labs forum.

 

--David

 

For me right now, ROON is limited to my portable device which includes a MacbookPro 13" and HUGO with LCD-X. One thing I quickly found is that using the same computer as their "core" and playback significantly reduced the SQ. When I loaded CORE on a dedicated high powered computer on my network and set up remote devices, including my MacbookPRO the SQ improved significantly. With the current updates over the last week it has continued to improve. I am awaiting ASIO support before installing ROON on my main system, but the difference in SQ on my MAC between it and A+ and JRiver is narrowing at a rather quick pace, especially with the "core" function of ROON being done by a different more powerful computer on the network.

[orgel]

One thing I quickly found is that using the same computer as their "core" and playback significantly reduced the SQ. When I loaded CORE on a dedicated high powered computer on my network and set up remote devices, including my MacbookPRO the SQ improved significantly.

 

Interesting and encouraging. I'm looking forward to the release of the iOS version — it appears the initial Android release is already available — and I'm hoping being able to run the UI on an iPad remote will have the same aural effect as using an OS X device as the remote.

 

--David

[dtb300]

..... One thing I quickly found is that using the same computer as their "core" and playback significantly reduced the SQ. ...... I am awaiting ASIO support before installing ROON on my main system, but the difference in SQ on my MAC between it and A+ and JRiver is narrowing at a rather quick pace, especially with the "core" function of ROON being done by a different more powerful computer on the network.

Agree, the addition of a "dedicated" Core does improve playback quality IMO.

 

I am waiting for ASIO and the iOS App....

[Cemil]

For me right now, ROON is limited to my portable device which includes a MacbookPro 13" and HUGO with LCD-X. One thing I quickly found is that using the same computer as their "core" and playback significantly reduced the SQ. When I loaded CORE on a dedicated high powered computer on my network and set up remote devices, including my MacbookPRO the SQ improved significantly. With the current updates over the last week it has continued to improve. I am awaiting ASIO support before installing ROON on my main system, but the difference in SQ on my MAC between it and A+ and JRiver is narrowing at a rather quick pace, especially with the "core" function of ROON being done by a different more powerful computer on the network.

 

Apologies for the probably dumb question, but was is the "core" and what is the playback section? Is that UI and 'sound engine'?

 

Also, from what I gather, Roon and (say) Amarra can exist on the same system, and can be used alternatively: Amarra for good sound, and Roon for exploration. Is that correct?

[Priaptor]

Apologies for the probably dumb question, but was is the "core" and what is the playback section? Is that UI and 'sound engine'?

 

Also, from what I gather, Roon and (say) Amarra can exist on the same system, and can be used alternatively: Amarra for good sound, and Roon for exploration. Is that correct?

 

You can do that.

 

The "core" is the computer that is doing all the leg work and database functions. Your remote computers can be setup to the library of the "core" and then your remote computer doesn't have to be involved in all the secondary functions of ROON that CORE is involved in. My CORE just sits on my network on my powerful windows machine and my Macbook Pro has both Roon Remote and A+. Removing the overhead of Core on Macbook PRO has narrowed the gap, for me, between Roon and A+.

[bobbmd]

Cemil: i use Amarra Sq+ and have Pure Music 2 using the 'playthrough' or now 'streamthrough' mode for listening to both TIDAL and Qobuz plus my iTunes library for AIFF ripped cd's (~800+) and BeatsMusic for my transferred MOG playlists

neither Amarra Sq+ or PureMusic work with ROON and sound quality is excellent so i guess ROON has their own proprietary sound engine and it works quite well Danny@roonlabs says you don't need the extra clutter to lengthen the music pathway and they(ROON) haven't contacted SONIC or PM as not enough customers have asked-sonic/amarra said they haven't tried ROON 'in house yet"

when i try to use Sq+ Sq+ says 'the device manager couldn't initiate, couldn't change the sample rate' AND 'that the input output audio devices should be stereo and support the same sample rate'

i feel ROON sq is excellent on par with sonic/amarra Sq+ especially through my sennheiser 598s and rs195 wireless phones through my macmini to gungnir to my avr. bobbmd

[jiminlogansquare]

I agree that Roon's SQ is quite good, but as a vested user of Amarra Symphony + iRC digital sound processing, in my room and with my system, Roon's sound is inferior.

 

BUT!

 

This is largely because of deficiencies in my room and system that I rely on the iRC DSP to correct, and which it reliably does correct. If you have a good-sounding room with no bad reflections or modes, or if you have corrected that shit with room treatments that I am not going to employ, then DSP like Amarra's iRC are a non issue for (lucky and/or resourceful) you.

 

But because I really do need to utilize DSP in the form of Amarra's iRC, I have been in touch with the folks at Roon about the possibility of integrating Roon with Amarra and iRC and/or with DIRAC (for those who utilize DIRAC direct from the manufacturer and not in the Amarra-integrated version of DIRAC known as iRC). The folks at Roon assure me they are looking at the Amarra iRC/DIRAC/Roon integration issue.

[fritzg]

I agree that Roon's SQ is quite good, but as a vested user of Amarra Symphony + iRC digital sound processing, in my room and with my system, Roon's sound is inferior.

 

BUT!

 

This is largely because of deficiencies in my room and system that I rely on the iRC DSP to correct, and which it reliably does correct. If you have a good-sounding room with no bad reflections or modes, or if you have corrected that shit with room treatments that I am not going to employ, then DSP like Amarra's iRC are a non issue for (lucky and/or resourceful) you.

 

But because I really do need to utilize DSP in the form of Amarra's iRC, I have been in touch with the folks at Roon about the possibility of integrating Roon with Amarra and iRC and/or with DIRAC (for those who utilize DIRAC direct from the manufacturer and not in the Amarra-integrated version of DIRAC known as iRC). The folks at Roon assure me they are looking at the Amarra iRC/DIRAC/Roon integration issue.

 

I don't understand room correction via software.

[jiminlogansquare]

DSP (digital sound processing) corrects for certain imperfections in the interface between the amplifier + speakers and the "sound" of the room in which they are placed. It corrects (or attempts to correct) imperfections of the room, such as nodes where bass notes are artificially accentuated or attenuated.

[jiminlogansquare]

The sort of DSP I am concerned with here requires the use of a microphone to measure with precision the room sound and how that interacts with the amp, speakers, etc. It helps sort out and correct problems before they even make it to the amp.

[SlowJazzHand]

I agree that Roon's SQ is quite good, but as a vested user of Amarra Symphony + iRC digital sound processing, in my room and with my system, Roon's sound is inferior.

 

BUT!

 

This is largely because of deficiencies in my room and system that I rely on the iRC DSP to correct, and which it reliably does correct. If you have a good-sounding room with no bad reflections or modes, or if you have corrected that shit with room treatments that I am not going to employ, then DSP like Amarra's iRC are a non issue for (lucky and/or resourceful) you.

 

But because I really do need to utilize DSP in the form of Amarra's iRC, I have been in touch with the folks at Roon about the possibility of integrating Roon with Amarra and iRC and/or with DIRAC (for those who utilize DIRAC direct from the manufacturer and not in the Amarra-integrated version of DIRAC known as iRC). The folks at Roon assure me they are looking at the Amarra iRC/DIRAC/Roon integration issue.

 

I use stand-alone Dirac and the latest build of Roon (16) is fully compatible with it. It's been a day and no problems whatsoever, everything sounds great.

[jiminlogansquare]

If Dirac would give me a free subscription in compensation for the many, many dollars I have sent to Sonic Studio for Amarra and its proprietary version of Dirac, iRC, then I would be a happy man.

[orgel]

One thing I quickly found is that using the same computer as their "core" and playback significantly reduced the SQ. When I loaded CORE on a dedicated high powered computer on my network and set up remote devices, including my MacbookPRO the SQ improved significantly.

 

Reflecting on this, I realized I wasn't properly taking in what @Priaptor was getting at. Reading some more on the Roon forum, it finally got through to me that what Priaptor is talking about and what, in fact, some of the Roon folks are recommending over the long term is that the core should run on a high-powered computer (preferably located outside the listening room). Then a remote is set up on a relatively low-powered device (read: quiet, in terms of EMI/RFI), and your DAC would be plugged into that remote. (This seems remarkably similar to Miska's "network audio adapter" scheme.)

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all develops. The Roon guys have indicated that it may be possible, down the road, to use a Raspberry Pi 2 as the lightweight remote, so that would be a very cost-effective option.

 

--David

[REShaman]

Reflecting on this, I realized I wasn't properly taking in what @Priaptor was getting at. Reading some more on the Roon forum, it finally got through to me that what Priaptor is talking about and what, in fact, some of the Roon folks are recommending over the long term is that the core should run on a high-powered computer (preferably located outside the listening room). Then a remote is set up on a relatively low-powered device (read: quiet, in terms of EMI/RFI), and your DAC would be plugged into that remote. (This seems remarkably similar to Miska's "network audio adapter" scheme.)

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all develops. The Roon guys have indicated that it may be possible, down the road, to use a Raspberry Pi 2 as the lightweight remote, so that would be a very cost-effective option.

 

--David

 

Hello David,

 

What is the method for communication (connectivity) between the Core and the Remote? Hardwired? WiFi? I realize I should be researching this directly by acquainting myself with the information provided by Roon. Merely asking for a perfunctory clue about the synergy for setting up an optimal operation for working with Roon.

 

If you care to.

 

Best,

Richard

[Priaptor]

Reflecting on this, I realized I wasn't properly taking in what @Priaptor was getting at. Reading some more on the Roon forum, it finally got through to me that what Priaptor is talking about and what, in fact, some of the Roon folks are recommending over the long term is that the core should run on a high-powered computer (preferably located outside the listening room). Then a remote is set up on a relatively low-powered device (read: quiet, in terms of EMI/RFI), and your DAC would be plugged into that remote. (This seems remarkably similar to Miska's "network audio adapter" scheme.)

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all develops. The Roon guys have indicated that it may be possible, down the road, to use a Raspberry Pi 2 as the lightweight remote, so that would be a very cost-effective option.

 

--David

 

Exactly.

 

I am happy to report that on my Macbook Pro as a remote tethered to a HUGO is closing the gap compared to A+. DSD still has issues with pops, pauses etc.

 

However when it comes to a portable Dell I borrowed from my son tethered to the HUGO, last night I did some listening and wondered what is going on? My first time listening on a PC since the release of ROON. The new Melody Gardot album sounded like sh-t as did AudioFidelity DSD America. No detail or snap almost muffled. I then listened to JRiver with ASIO and it sounded fantastic. I am assuming and hoping this is just an ASIO issue soon to be fixed. Also DSD as I said has issues but to be fair the ROON folks do state to look at this as beta.

[Priaptor]

Hello David,

 

What is the method for communication (connectivity) between the Core and the Remote? Hardwired? WiFi? I realize I should be researching this directly by acquainting myself with the information provided by Roon. Merely asking for a perfunctory clue about the synergy for setting up an optimal operation for working with Roon.

 

If you care to.

 

Best,

Richard

 

Hey Richard,

 

Right now I am just experimenting with Roon and have yet to move it to my main listening system. I have the Core (server) wired to my network but the notebooks tethered to my HUGO for listening (remote) are connected wirelessly to the same network.

 

Howie

[orgel]

What is the method for communication (connectivity) between the Core and the Remote? Hardwired? WiFi?

 

My impression is that Roon Labs wants it to be via either wired Ethernet or WiFi, so the user would have the choice. There's at least one piece of the puzzle that's not fully available yet: RoonSpeakers. I get the idea that once RoonSpeakers is fully implemented and available, all will become clear on this front. This thread on the Roon forum has some info.

 

Normally I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to all this "real soon now" stuff, but the Roon folks seem to have this uncanny ability to follow through very quickly on things they say are coming "in the future."

 

As I get more acquainted with the Roon software and start to be able to take in all the potential it has, I'm beginning to think it's something that could fundamentally change the way we think of playback software and what it should do.

 

--David

[Priaptor]

My impression is that Roon Labs wants it to be via either wired Ethernet or WiFi, so the user would have the choice. There's at least one piece of the puzzle that's not fully available yet: RoonSpeakers. I get the idea that once RoonSpeakers is fully implemented and available, all will become clear on this front. This thread on the Roon forum has some info.

 

Normally I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to all this "real soon now" stuff, but the Roon folks seem to have this uncanny ability to follow through very quickly on things they say are coming "in the future."

 

As I get more acquainted with the Roon software and start to be able to take in all the potential it has, I'm beginning to think it's something that could fundamentally change the way we think of playback software and what it should do.

 

--David

 

I couldn't agree more. Even though the SQ is not yet up to where I would use it in my main system, I am incredibly impressed with the potential of this product and the speed with which they are releasing updates not only to fix issues of their original product but incorporating the desires of their consumers. Pretty amazing in this day and age.

 

Hence why I went for a lifetime subscription and hope to be using it on my main rig sooner than later and during their implementation and fixing of issues learn all the tricks of this fabulous interface along the way.

[REShaman]

My impression is that Roon Labs wants it to be via either wired Ethernet or WiFi, so the user would have the choice. There's at least one piece of the puzzle that's not fully available yet: RoonSpeakers. I get the idea that once RoonSpeakers is fully implemented and available, all will become clear on this front. This thread on the Roon forum has some info.

 

Normally I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to all this "real soon now" stuff, but the Roon folks seem to have this uncanny ability to follow through very quickly on things they say are coming "in the future."

 

As I get more acquainted with the Roon software and start to be able to take in all the potential it has, I'm beginning to think it's something that could fundamentally change the way we think of playback software and what it should do.

 

--David

 

Hey Richard,

 

Right now I am just experimenting with Roon and have yet to move it to my main listening system. I have the Core (server) wired to my network but the notebooks tethered to my HUGO for listening (remote) are connected wirelessly to the same network.

 

Howie

 

Dear Howie and David,

 

Thank you for taking the time to support me in my "lazy" inquiry. I have been following both your posts and this thread from the inception. Just wanted to confirm what you both have provided us. Obviously, I am waiting for the inspiration to come on board. What is holding me up is my love affair with Amarra Symphony with iRC which I am not willing to dispense with for the Roon Player. No offense, Danny. And with HQPlayer.

 

For those of us who are on stand-by, and speaking for myself, I appreciate your insights into the operations and your experiences. It gives me a few legs up so I can run with it or at the very least applaud as a spectator. (Smile.)

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[Priaptor]

Dear Howie and David,

 

Thank you for taking the time to support me in my "lazy" inquiry. I have been following both your posts and this thread from the inception. Just wanted to confirm what you both have provided us. Obviously, I am waiting for the inspiration to come on board. What is holding me up is my love affair with Amarra Symphony with iRC which I am not willing to dispense with for the Roon Player. No offense, Danny. And with HQPlayer.

 

For those of us who are on stand-by, and speaking for myself, I appreciate your insights into the operations and your experiences. It gives me a few legs up so I can run with it or at the very least applaud as a spectator. (Smile.)

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

 

I think once the product really reaches its maturation for us "audiophiles" it will be the go to product. But I too, at this point other than playing around with the product to get a handle on it, am not ready to replace my go to system.

 

My main system, which is the MSB Diamond plus, with its QUAD USB board, "theoretically" once Roon releases an ASIO driver should sound no different than any other engine. MSB has incorporated, assuming you are using their dedicated ASIO, a PROI2S solution that offloads the databits to their memory buffer and that buffer is what gets clocked and through their DAC so theoretically it shouldn't make a difference but we will see. Right now it still has a ways to go but they are getting there very quickly.

[orgel]

Obviously, I am waiting for the inspiration to come on board. What is holding me up is my love affair with Amarra Symphony with iRC which I am not willing to dispense with for the Roon Player. No offense, Danny. And with HQPlayer.

 

Well, my understanding is that Roon already works with the standalone version of Dirac Live. And besides that, there's supposed to be ongoing (though at an early stage) interaction between Roon Labs and Signalyst. So if the HQPlayer stuff comes to fruition (a big if, I grant you), you should have the best of all worlds.

 

If you have a free day or two, you might want to download the Roon trial and then cancel, just so you can get an idea of the user experience that Roon offers. I'm not saying the Roon metadata magic is perfected yet, but it really is an amazing thing to see, despite those instances where currently Mahler might show up as an artist or Ornette Coleman and Igor Stravinsky get grouped into the same genre. If you're a Tidal subscriber, the way Roon integrates your own collection with Tidal's library is also something pretty wonderful.

 

--David (who still has a very strong attachment to A+)

[digitalzed]

Hello David,

 

What is the method for communication (connectivity) between the Core and the Remote? Hardwired? WiFi? I realize I should be researching this directly by acquainting myself with the information provided by Roon. Merely asking for a perfunctory clue about the synergy for setting up an optimal operation for working with Roon.

 

If you care to.

 

Best,

Richard

Running my remote through wifi with great results.