Optical Network Configurations

[FIndingit]

I know nothing about Ciscos, sorry. Was concerned that i.e. Sonore OM ships with Tp-link sfp. 

[jabbr]

27 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Sorry for not being clear in my question.  Have you compared these from a SQ perspective and if so could you notice a difference?

 

They don't go into the same equipment so apples to oranges somewhat. I have compared Intel x520, Solarflare 6/7322f on the endpoint with the 10g module and Clearfog with the 1g module and both perform well. On the server 10,25, 40 and 100Gbe NICs (25,40 and 100 are Mellanox) all are indistinguishable to me. I am using single mode modules throughout. The Mellanox 40 Gbe is ConnectX-3 and the 100 Gbe are mix of Connectx-4 and 5.

 

I can't say that I can hear a difference between my older 10g SFP(+) switch vs my current Mellanox MSN2700 100 Gbe switch (note that the 100 Gbe QSFP28 modules do 1 - 100 Gbe). Its not really easy to simply swap switches so its not like I've done 40 hours of comparative listening between switches, and obviously I know which switch is in the system. That said I'm NOT recommending that most folks upgrade to a 100 Gbe switch unless you are doing heavy video editing over an NVME NAS etc.

[John769]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

Generally you can put an SFP module in an SFP(+) port, but you can't put an SFP(+) module in an SFP port

 

Didn't realise that! I used a pair of FTLX1475D3BCV in OM -> Buffulo GS 2024 (both 1gbe devices) back in the summer. Seemed to work ok but soon replaced with Finisar ...1321 and Finisar ...1324, which sounded better to my ears. Could it have caused any physical damage? 🙃

[jabbr]

2 minutes ago, John769 said:

 

Didn't realise that! I used a pair of FTLX1475D3BCV in OM -> Buffulo GS 2024 (both 1gbe devices) back in the summer. Seemed to work ok but soon replaced with Finisar ...1321 and Finisar ...1324, which sounded better to my ears. Could it have caused any physical damage? 🙃

 

If its working its probably ok ... i don't know how the hardware works but there might've been an issue with power draw. I can't keep all the spec sheets straight and you'd need to ask the manufacturer if they have tested a dual SFP(+) module in their SFP port. 

[kerisabe]

2 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I think they would sound the same...

I thought the finisars are preferred more than the other sfps. Ive got the finisars otw, i guess ill have to wait and see. Thanks for getting back @plissken

[plissken]

1 hour ago, kerisabe said:

I thought the finisars are preferred more than the other sfps. Ive got the finisars otw, i guess ill have to wait and see. Thanks for getting back @plissken

 

Most companies farm out their SFP to OEM production. I don't know if this is still the case but all my Cisco Badged SFP SX modules are made by Finisar. This is another reason I'm incredulous when people are hearing differences. You are most likely purchasing from a pool that is only provided by a short list of manufacturers.

 

I doubt TP-Link has their own production line for just SFP/SFP+ modules. They don't sell enough of them vs their switch gear to take on the cost in house production.

 

There is a very good chance someone has compared the same exact module, with different labels, and have all sorts of flowery prose to describe one and all sorts of words like 'dull' and 'lifeless' to describe another.

 

People around here don't know what they don't know...

[kerisabe]

Ok thats a legit explanation @plisskenI shall have a proper listen/comparison and see if indeed the finisar sfps are best. Not keepin my hopes up. Thanks to you

[plissken]

1 minute ago, kerisabe said:

Ok thats a legit explanation @plisskenI shall have a proper listen/comparison and see if indeed the finisar sfps are best. Not keepin my hopes up. Thanks to you

I ordered a TP-Link SX module and will let you know if I can determine it's OEM.

[kerisabe]

Actually i havent included my cisco 2960s switches during the last couple listening sessions. Just the macbook pro via wifi, then ethernet out into the nuprime omnia sw8 switch, then a pink faun lan isolator out into the interchange network renderer by empirical audio, then i2s out into the empirical audio odsx’s i2s input. 
 

planning to put back the 2960 after the router then daisy chaining between the other 2960s then back to ethernet into the nuprime. 

[FIndingit]

My Tp-link was 10 km, 1.26Gbps, made in China. 

The Fininisar is 15 km, 2.67Gbps, made in Malaysia. 

 

I’m rather certain these aren’t ”the same exact module”. 

[jabbr]

23 hours ago, plissken said:

Most companies farm out their SFP to OEM production. I don't know if this is still the case but all my Cisco Badged SFP SX modules are made by Finisar. This is another reason I'm incredulous when people are hearing differences. You are most likely purchasing from a pool that is only provided by a short list of manufacturers.

 

 

This is the reason I have recommended Finisar. Intel also uses both Finisar and Avago as OEM for SFP(+) modules.

 

That said Cisco branded SFP modules which likely used to be $1k back in the day, are going to be good quality, whatever state of the art was back when they were made. 

[RikkiPoo]

I have used 3 SFP's between my EtherRegen and SOtM switches recently and there is a world of difference between them.  The Startechs were very bright and detailed somewhat edgy and also lean,  I tried Sonore SFP's with their fiber cable and it was way to dark and thick.  I now have Finisar 1318's and I like them much better but still occasional find them a little bright depending on the track.

Interestingly I had the EtherRegen powered by an Uptone LPS 1.2.  The LPS 1.2 was powered by a Meanwell SMPS.  Replacing the Meanwell with an Uptone JS-2 a lot of the brightness and occasional edginess went away.  Its not perfect but much better.  

I had the Meanwell on a PS Audio Powerplant P10,  I think it created a lot of noise that affected the SFP's.

[plissken]

58 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

This is the reason I have recommended Finisar. Intel also uses both Finisar and Avago as OEM for SFP(+) modules.

 

That said Cisco branded SFP modules which likely used to be $1k back in the day, are going to be good quality, whatever state of the art was back when they were made. 

All the HBA optics I've installed have been Avago...

[plissken]

I have a programmer/reader that I use for FS modules to re-encode their generic modules for whatever platforms I bump into and plugged in the TP-Link transceiver but no extended info is available.

 

I would like to remind everyone that when you are comparing modules you could be comparing the same thing. These are data devices and I think when properly blinded you would be hard pressed to trust your ears.

[jabbr]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:17 PM, plissken said:

All the HBA optics I've installed have been Avago...

Avago is an impressive company with a fascinating history. It started out via HP which spun out Agilent and then Agilent spun out Avago to private equity in 2005. It then made some large leveraged acquisitions including LSI (ie SAS adapters) as well as Broadcom (think 100gbe,200gbe,400gbe switch silicon) ... needless to say I wouldn't hesitate to use.  I have found it easier to source Finisar on ebay, and their website is less unwieldy to find spec sheets and other documents specifically about optics and lasers, that's to say Finisar is more of a one trick pony ... that is to say I don't claim to have personally done any type of comprehensive industry wide testing ... any advice that I give is based on what I've used.

 

But if you want to think any kind of  high speed switch silicon, think Avago.

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, jabbr said:

Avago is an impressive company with a fascinating history.

I’m quite sure @JohnSwensonwould agree with you on this. He was a senior engineer—mostly in their custom silicon divisions—with LSI Logic>Avago>Broadcom for 31 years. He has shared with me quite a number of interesting stories.  What I always found most interesting was the scale of the projects they would tackle and the coordination of teams of engineers working literally for years on just a few projects, and then, at the end there would be this massive crunch-time to finish, test, re-spin, and then turn it all around in a race to deliver. Lots of long nights and global handoffs between teams.

At least those are the stories of his I most remember.

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

I’m quite sure @JohnSwensonwould agree with you on this. He was a senior engineer—mostly in their custom silicon divisions—with LSI Logic>Avago>Broadcom for 31 years. He has shared with me quite a number of interesting stories.  What I always found most interesting was the scale of the projects they would tackle and the coordination of teams of engineers working literally for years on just a few projects, and then, at the end there would be this massive crunch-time to finish, test, re-spin, and then turn it all around in a race to deliver. Lots of long nights and global handoffs between teams.

At least those are the stories of his I most remember.

 

Crunch time is unfortunately a very common theme.  I worked for a software developer who had an annual release schedule.  Every year like clockwork, in the last couple months before release, people would be sleeping in the office night after night.  It favored the young and unmarried devs.  There have been several lawsuits and I know of one in which the plaintiff won.

 

[plissken]

18 hours ago, jabbr said:

including LSI

 

I always preferred LSI DAS. Just easy to setup. Good UI. Just always seemed to work. I started using their SCSI adapters with Power Mac's back in the day. Better functionality than Adaptec at 20% less the cost.

[jabbr]

7 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I always preferred LSI DAS. Just easy to setup. Good UI. Just always seemed to work. I started using their SCSI adapters with Power Mac's back in the day. Better functionality than Adaptec at 20% less the cost.

 

I use LSI SAS3 HBAs in my NAS. If I ever build a new NAS it will be NVME over fiber but I really don't need one ... but that doesn't mean that I won't get one 🙄

[fds]

A pair of FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers has just arrived. Looking forward to try them with the CSS610 MikroTik switches later. This will be my first use of a 10GB fiber connection in my audio system. Will report back.

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, fds said:

A pair of FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers has just arrived. Looking forward to try them with the CSS610 MikroTik switches later. This will be my first use of a 10GB fiber connection in my audio system. Will report back.

So you will test against your opticalModule as well as the opticalRendu ?

I’m looking forward to the results. On paper it shouldn’t work. 
Edit. It’s a dual rate module will work. 
 

@jabbr

I think you have been using SFP+ 10 GB modules with success in 1 GB SFP equipment. 
Is this correct ?

[Superdad]

47 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I’m looking forward to the results. On paper it shouldn’t work. 
Edit. It’s a dual rate module will work. 

 

You are mis-understanding what so-called "dual-rate" modules are about.  They are not required for an SFP+ to pass data at 1Gbe.  John will explain shortly.

[Superdad]

For a clear explanation of SFP and SFP+ interoperability, please refer to John Swenson's post here:

 

[fds]

The pair of FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers will be put into my two CSS610 MikroTik switches. The first CSS610 is connected via copper ethernet to the server. The second CSS610 is connected via copper ethernet to the oM. Inside my oM and oR I use a pair of PlanetTech transceivers (which I like a lot) or Finisar SFPs (not SFP+) still to be tested/run in.  With the FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers a 10G fiber connection will be created between the two CSS610 switches.

[R1200CL]

29 minutes ago, fds said:

The pair of FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers will be put into my two CSS610 MikroTik switches. The first CSS610 is connected via copper ethernet to the server. The second CSS610 is connected via copper ethernet to the oM. Inside my oM and oR I use a pair of PlanetTech transceivers (which I like a lot) or Finisar SFPs (not SFP+) still to be tested/run in.  With the FTLX1475D3BCV transceivers a 10G fiber connection will be created between the two CSS610 switches.

That CSS610-8G-2S+IN looks fantastic for $99. 
Still it would be very nice if you can confirm that the 10GB modules or the present SFP+ modules, will work directly between the switch and either of the Sonore devices. 
I couldn’t find the data sheet for that switch, but I expect the SFP+ cage to be both 1GB and 10GB compatible. As it is with the other cheap Mikrotik switch.