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I'm going mad, because I'm hearing big differences based on what's under my FMC going to Aries with Cat8 cable. The best is no footers at all. Tried all sorts of feet, plywood etc.

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On 6/9/2019 at 6:56 AM, FIndingit said:

I'm going mad, because I'm hearing big differences based on what's under my FMC going to Aries with Cat8 cable. The best is no footers at all. Tried all sorts of feet, plywood etc.

 

You indeed might be mad, but this article discussed some vibration effects on clock oscillators (see third figure down): https://www.sitime.com/company/news/blog/what-you-need-know-about-phase-noise-and-jitter-high-speed-systems


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Has anyone tried comparing linking 2 FMCs or switches together with:

A) multimode fiber and transceivers versus

B) monomode fiber and transceivers

I remember seeing a japanese article where such a comparison was made and monomode was better but cant find the link again

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On 5/16/2019 at 1:57 AM, mourip said:

I am using suggestions that came with my new JCAT Femto NIC card. Among other tweaks it suggested unchecking all networking properties

@mourip

Is it possible to have the list of these suggestions? Could be useful for other network devices like my cisco switch for setting optimized configuration

 

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6 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

Has anyone tried comparing linking 2 FMCs or switches together with:

A) multimode fiber and transceivers versus

B) monomode fiber and transceivers

I remember seeing a japanese article where such a comparison was made and monomode was better but cant find the link again

 

I use two opticalModules (multimode) for my living room setup. Sound amazing of course. I do use 10/100 single mode TP link FMC's (powered by iFi's - on different circuits) and it sounds good enough that for now just leaving them be. I think many reports of 10/100 FMCs sounding better than full gig due to less processing power needed (Uptone's new switch will only have a 10/100 output). But the opticalModule is night and day, and if you do need an FMC to talk to one of those, you need multimode. 


SERVER CLOSET:NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK and OWC external 2.5" HD (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule>fiber (HDPLEX 100). Supra MD-06 power strip. {Office Circuit}

LIVING ROOM:Sonore opticalModule (LPS-1)>Ghent Audio JSSG Cat 6a cable>Sonore microRendu 1.4> (Sonore UltraRendu>Ghent Neotech 7N solid JSSG DC cable) {20amp dedicated circuit) Uptone USPCB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 110 {both dedicated 20amp circuit}>Chord Rumor 2>Rega RX3’s.

OFFICE:TP Link MC110 optical bridge (iFi's - different office circuits)>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50’ (near field post mounted - sound amazing - one of the few  joys of working from the home basement). Cables: AQ Cinnamon RJ45, Meico RJ45, basic cat6, Naim stock AC cables with Wattgate or HifiKing Plugs. 

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They send you a list of settings after you order the card. I am sure that most of these are generic best practice and can be found in other threads here but since the settings are really part of what they sell I feel like I should honor their work by not passing them on. Perhaps you could email Marcin directly to see if he is open to sharing them.



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16 minutes ago, mourip said:

They send you a list of settings after you order the card. I am sure that most of these are generic best practice and can be found in other threads here but since the settings are really part of what they sell I feel like I should honor their work by not passing them on. Perhaps you could email Marcin directly to see if he is open to sharing them.

 

Most switches that people should be using here are “unmanaged” and don’t need nor allow configuration. Many professional managed switches allow vastly more complex configuration that is done on a NIC but home users don’t need that.


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21 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

I use two opticalModules (multimode) for my living room setup. Sound amazing of course. I do use 10/100 single mode TP link FMC's (powered by iFi's - on different circuits) and it sounds good enough that for now just leaving them be. I think many reports of 10/100 FMCs sounding better than full gig due to less processing power needed (Uptone's new switch will only have a 10/100 output). But the opticalModule is night and day, and if you do need an FMC to talk to one of those, you need multimode. 

 

Although the opticalModule is stated to be used with multimode SFPs there’s no reason that you couldn’t use a single mode SFP — just try & see if it works.

 

10/100 Mb Ethernet is somewhat archaic. 1 Gbe is already decades old. Fiberoptic Ethernet SFPs / NICs DO NOT typically need more power as the speed goes up. I only use 1 Gbe for audio. 


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I raised the very same question on Sonore's OM thread a couple of days ago (see reply I got below).  So hopefully my spare Cisco GLC-LH-SM will work in the OM when it arrives shortly 🤪

 

 

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22 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Although the opticalModule is stated to be used with multimode SFPs there’s no reason that you couldn’t use a single mode SFP — just try & see if it works.

 

10/100 Mb Ethernet is somewhat archaic. 1 Gbe is already decades old. Fiberoptic Ethernet SFPs / NICs DO NOT typically need more power as the speed goes up. I only use 1 Gbe for audio. 

 

Ok, I wasn't sure about the power thing either, just something I read on the internet... ;)

 

Might have. to find a cheap single mode transceiver and give it a try...

 


SERVER CLOSET:NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK and OWC external 2.5" HD (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule>fiber (HDPLEX 100). Supra MD-06 power strip. {Office Circuit}

LIVING ROOM:Sonore opticalModule (LPS-1)>Ghent Audio JSSG Cat 6a cable>Sonore microRendu 1.4> (Sonore UltraRendu>Ghent Neotech 7N solid JSSG DC cable) {20amp dedicated circuit) Uptone USPCB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 110 {both dedicated 20amp circuit}>Chord Rumor 2>Rega RX3’s.

OFFICE:TP Link MC110 optical bridge (iFi's - different office circuits)>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50’ (near field post mounted - sound amazing - one of the few  joys of working from the home basement). Cables: AQ Cinnamon RJ45, Meico RJ45, basic cat6, Naim stock AC cables with Wattgate or HifiKing Plugs. 

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4 hours ago, jabbr said:

Although the opticalModule is stated to be used with multimode SFPs there’s no reason that you couldn’t use a single mode SFP — just try & see if it works.

 

BTW, Taiko Audio found single mode SFPs sounding superior.

 

Matt

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4 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Ok, I wasn't sure about the power thing either, just something I read on the internet... ;)

 

Might have. to find a cheap single mode transceiver and give it a try...

 

 

The power needed for copper Ethernet goes up with speed but not optical. Intel publishes wattage requirements for its NICs.

 

I use these dual 1/10G modules from Avago with my Intel NICs AFCT-701SDDZ


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4 hours ago, jabbr said:

Many professional managed switches allow vastly more complex configuration that is done on a NIC but home users don’t need that.

I was asking the question about configuration tweaks because i have manageable cisco switches. In the same way that NUC or servor config is optimized for lower cpu utilization and needed amperage needed I guess the same rationale could apply to a switch ? Hence the question about network / switch config disabling unused ports creating dedicated audio vpn disabling QoS.... ??? 

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5 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Most switches that people should be using here are “unmanaged” and don’t need nor allow configuration. Many professional managed switches allow vastly more complex configuration that is done on a NIC but home users don’t need that.

 

I was responding to the question about the JCAT Femto NIC.



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33 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

I was asking the question about configuration tweaks because i have manageable cisco switches. In the same way that NUC or servor config is optimized for lower cpu utilization and needed amperage needed I guess the same rationale could apply to a switch ? Hence the question about network / switch config disabling unused ports creating dedicated audio vpn disabling QoS.... ??? 

 

Fiberoptic Ethernet is much different than copper in that there is no possibility of transmitting leakage current and EMI isn’t transmitted down the cables. 

 

I am not concerned about server EMI or noise with my fiberoptic isolation. 

 

If your network is heavily loaded you can consider QoS etc. My own switches have adequate bandwidth that VLans are not necessary. 

 

You could try kill-o-watt and see if various port configs affect power consumption. 

 

All that said, professional 10G, 40G and 100G switches have vastly better clocks and tightly defined end to end jitter as specified. (femtosecond ranges) so if one were looking to optimize, the 10G switches are something to look at (these are what I use). Note that power supply noise affects jitter, so the companies which make these switches (Brocade, Mellanox, Cisco, Arista, Juniper etc) have had to deal with these issues and have devoted great resources toward doing so. 


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9 minutes ago, jabbr said:

If your network is heavily loaded you can consider QoS etc. My own switches have adequate bandwidth that VLans are not necessary. 

 

HQPlayer/NAA for example is already using QoS capabilities, as long as the network infra supports it. And OS already deal with it.

 

Also RAVENNA seems to do the same.


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5 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

I was responding to the question about the JCAT Femto NIC.

 

Is it fiberoptic?

 

The SGMII interface used with SFP modules is significant different than the RGMII interface used by consumer copper Ethernet. http://humblesblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/rgmiisgmiixaui.html?m=1 

 

Apples and Oranges


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2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

BTW, Taiko Audio found single mode SFPs sounding superior.

 

Thats possible because single mode uses those really good VSel lasers and generally better electronics intended to hit that eye-pattern despite kilometers of distance. 

 

Those interested in tweaking should check out single single mode probably first.


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Why would it make any difference in sound quality?

 

Tidal sounds the same regardless if I listen it over 4G data or VDSL2 and it has all kinds of other strange hardware on the way...

 

Only sound quality point I see in fiber is galvanic isolation. And type of fiber doesn't make difference on that. Apart from that it is just data pipe...

 


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Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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43 minutes ago, Miska said:

Why would it make any difference in sound quality?

 

Theres no proof that it makes a difference.

 

The folks interested in tweaking are looking to reduce electrical noise. The SFP module at the receiver is an electrical device and all else equal single mode is lower noise (all are low noise so might be moot). It’s also a relatively cheap and perfectly functional option. 

 

Theres also a meme meme floating around, apparently launched by @JohnSwenson (at least I’ve seen it attributed that way) that  jitter/phase noise in the network bitstream can somehow find its way to the DAC. 10G+ devices are designed to have lower jitter (must hit a tight eye pattern) and if this does affect the DAC somehow then that’s also an advantage. 


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29 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Theres also a meme meme floating around, apparently launched by @JohnSwenson (at least I’ve seen it attributed that way) that  jitter/phase noise in the network bitstream can somehow find its way to the DAC. 10G+ devices are designed to have lower jitter (must hit a tight eye pattern) and if this does affect the DAC somehow then that’s also an advantage. 

What John is proposing is very difficult to measure. Yet some people here claim they can here it’s affects. Maybe those people found to have this special gift can be rewarded an S to wear on their chest:) Seriously, what John is proposing is more for completeness than it is for practice listening advantage compared to other things like power supply noise which is easily measured. 

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Sure. Again testing single vs multimode is very easy. 

 

I don’t expect that noise in a server would have any effect once passed through a 10G switch (one with known low end to end jitter). It’s not the 10G speed per se, rather the 10GBase-X standard which requires very low jitter. 

https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/669-10GigEthernet-08-01-02.pdf

https://download.tek.com/document/65W_28494_1_LR_Letter.pdf

 

 

 

Efforts at reducing noise can be focused on the endpoint.


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@vortecjr I want to comment on the fact that I’m not meaning to say that a 10G switch is better than your bespoke FMC: opticalModule where I understand that it was designed with attention to clock & noise. I’m commenting instead regarding the $25 FMCs or the $100 SFP switches (1Gbe) for which I can’t make any comment on the amount of jitter etc on the wire ... I can’t say either way whether jitter “gets through” these interfaces because I haven’t seen tests — end to end tests aren’t required for 10/100 Mb or 1 Gbe. It’s reasonable to make a high quality FMC for the home audiophile. I can say that jitter doesn’t accumulate and pass through the 10G+ systems because that’s tested for (end to end jitter)

 

I mention this because early on in this thread we recommended cheap FMCs and switches, but I’ve personally moved on from that. (they work fine)


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