Pacific Microsonics Recordings?

[tranz]

Has anyone come across a list of modern music recorded using the Pacific Microsonics ADC?

 

I read that Reference Recordings uses the ADC, but it is more classical focused, and I am looking more for pop, RnB, rock, EDM type of modern.

 

Cheers

[manisandher]

I sold my Model Two to 'Translab Mastering' in Paris (TRANSLAB MASTERING) and know that they intend to release hi-rez mastered on it.

 

Mani.

[tranz]

Thanks Mani.

[astrotoy]

I know that Paul Stubblebine and Michael Romanowski have several Model Twos which they use for mastering - including many non classical releases. Many of Winston Ma's FIM CD's (many non classical) were made using the Model Two (those that Paul mastered in the 2000's). Also many folks use the Model Twos at Skywalker Sound to do their recording and mastering. We were at Skywalker a couple of years ago at the invitation of my consultant, Mark Wilsher to see him doing a recording using the stack of Model Two's (and Pyramix software) for a mch recording of a string quartet (Cypress Quartet recording their "American" album).

 

That is just in the Bay Area. Many Model Twos were used in Hollywood to make film scores. That is where mine came from - Warner Bros.

 

Larry

[Hiro]

So was the Pacific Microsonics ADC a true 24bit PCM ADC, or a hybrid of some sorts, as some suspect?

[Axiom05]

I downloaded several new Reference Recording albums from hdtracks in 24/176 and I was very disappointed when I saw that HDCD encoding is missing.

 

I would have thought that HDCD encoding is irrelevant if you have the 24/176 recording. Isn't HDCD used to give more of the sense of the original recording but at a lower resolution?

[astrotoy]

I would have thought that HDCD encoding is irrelevant if you have the 24/176 recording. Isn't HDCD used to give more of the sense of the original recording but at a lower resolution?

 

My understanding is that Keith Johnson developed HDCD encoding for CD's to give more resolution than 44/16. It wasn't for 176/24 which is what Keith recorded his master files which he down converted to 44/16 to make CD's). Some of these master files Reference Recordings sells directly from the website (physical discs with 176/24 files - I have most of them - at $45 each. They then started selling them as downloads through HD Tracks for less (I don't have any of those). They shouldn't be HDCD encoded AFAIK.

 

I have ripped the Reference Recording CD's that I have which are HDCD encoded and they all light up the HDCD light on my Model Two as well as my BADA2 when I play them back.

 

Hiro, do you have a reference to where people have said that the PM is a hybrid, and not a true 24bit PCM ADC? I can contact Keith and Paul Stubblebine to find out whether that is true.

 

Larry

[accwai]

My understanding is that Keith Johnson developed HDCD encoding for CD's to give more resolution than 44/16. It wasn't for 176/24 which is what Keith recorded his master files which he down converted to 44/16 to make CD's). Some of these master files Reference Recordings sells directly from the website (physical discs with 176/24 files - I have most of them - at $45 each. They then started selling them as downloads through HD Tracks for less (I don't have any of those). They shouldn't be HDCD encoded AFAIK.

 

Hmm... Hard to say. My Alpha DAC 2 came with a DVD-R copy of HRx Sampler 2011, the track list of which seems to be identical to what's on HDtracks:

 

HRx Sampler 2011: A Classical and Jazz High Resolution Spectacular! | HDtracks

 

The DVD tracks cause the blue HDCD light on the Alpha to turn on. I somehow doubt they would go to the trouble of making non-HDCD version specifically for HDtracks.

[tranz]

...

Hiro, do you have a reference to where people have said that the PM is a hybrid, and not a true 24bit PCM ADC? I can contact Keith and Paul Stubblebine to find out whether that is true.

 

Larry

 

I would be interested in that too as the only reason for me looking for these recordings is because it is the only PCM DAC I read about that does not use the delta sigma modulation.

 

A bit of a needle, but I am curious whether a discrete ladder DAC sings best with PCM recordings that never went through delta sigma modulation.

 

Cheers

[tranz]

I found this list on Goodwin's site:

 

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/manufacturers/pacific_microsonics/pacific_microsonics_model_two.htm

 

Mastering & Recording Studios using Pacific Microsonics Model Two

 

USA

 

Arizona

 

Ø SAE Mastering - Phoenix, AZ - 602-242-0022

 

California

 

Ø Skywalker Sound - San Rafael, CA - recording room plan-view - mic and equipment list

 

Ø Paul Stubblebine Mastering - San Francisco, CA - 415-522-0108

 

Ø Michael Romanowski Mastering - San Francisco, CA - 415-522-0108

 

Ø John Greenham Mastering - San Francisco, CA

 

Ø Rob Cross Mastering - San Francisco, CA

 

Ø Cohearent Mastering - Kevin Gray - San Fernando Valley, CA - 818-894-3400

 

Ø Mockingbird Mastering - Jeffrey Norman - Petaluma, California - 707-696-0616 (M-F 10-7 PST)

 

Ø Lou Hemsey Music and Film - Los Angeles, CA - 818-524-8545

 

Colorado

 

Ø Air Show Mastering - Boulder, CO - 888-545-9035

 

Maine

 

Ø Gateway Mastering - Bob Ludwig - Portland, Maine - 207-828-9400

 

Massachusetts

 

Ø M Works Mastering Studio - Jonathan Wyner - Cambridge, MA - 617-577-0089

 

Ø Peerless Mastering - (equipment) - (article) - Jeff Lipton - Newton, MA - 617-527-2200

 

Nebraska

 

Ø Focus Mastering - Doug Van Sloun - Omaha, NE - 402-504-9624

 

New York

 

Ø Battery Mastering Studios - Mark Wilder - New York, NY - 212-833-7373

 

Ø Battery Mastering Studios - Tim Sturges - New York, NY - 212-833-7373

 

Ø Battery Mastering Studios - Vic Anesini - New York, NY - 212-833-7373

 

North Carolina

 

Ø Kitchen Mastering - Brent Lambert - Carrboro, NC - 919-929-4494

 

Oregon

 

Ø Future Disc Mastering - Steve Hall - (article) McMinnville, OR - 213-361-0603

 

Tennessee

 

Ø Georgetown Mastering - (equipment) Nashville, Tennessee - 615-254-3233

 

 

 

INTERNATIONAL

 

Ø Super Audio Mastering - Simon Heyworth - Great Britain - 44 (0) 1647 432 858

 

Ø Cutting Room - Stockholm, Sweden - 46 (0)8 505 817 00

 

 

 

Mastering & Recording Studios using Pacific Microsonics Model One

 

Ø Magic Garden Mastering - Brian Lucey - Columbus, OH - 614-620-4567

 

Ø Hit Track Recording Studio - Las Vegas, NV - 702-481-1663

 

Ø The Red Room - Philippe Weiss - Suresnes, France

 

 

 

Record Labels using Pacific Microsonics Model Two

 

Ø Reference Recordings - San Francisco, California

 

Ø Linn Records - Glasgow, Scotland - 44 (0)141 303 5027

 

Ø First Impression Music - Winston Ma - Seattle, Oregon

[accwai]

I would be interested in that too as the only reason for me looking for these recordings is because it is the only PCM DAC I read about that does not use the delta sigma modulation.

 

A bit of a needle, but I am curious whether a discrete ladder DAC sings best with PCM recordings that never went through delta sigma modulation.

 

I just quickly sampled a number of RR, Linn and FIM albums in my collection and none of them has any detail on the recording equipment. So your idea might be rather difficult to prove.

 

By the way, don't know if it means anything in terms of the recording chain, but Linn has stopped putting HDCD encoding on their recent CDs. For example, the Pavlo Beznosiuk Back solo violin double CD says 2011 and is HDCD encoded. The Richard Tunnicliffe Bach solo cello double CD says 2012 and is plain Redbook.

[Hiro]

Hiro, do you have a reference to where people have said that the PM is a hybrid, and not a true 24bit PCM ADC? I can contact Keith and Paul Stubblebine to find out whether that is true.

 

Larry, from what I remember PMII is using ladder-pipeline architecture, and no one at this point knows how many bits of resolution it actually achieves through its "ladder" part. If there's anyone who could know more about it on this forum, it's Mani and PeterSt. If you have a chance to ask someone in the know about whether it's a true flash(ladder) 24bit ADC or something else, then please do, if you want to find out what's really going on inside this converter.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Has anyone come across a list of modern music recorded using the Pacific Microsonics ADC?

 

I read that Reference Recordings uses the ADC, but it is more classical focused, and I am looking more for pop, RnB, rock, EDM type of modern.

 

Cheers

Rather than look for music made with a PM2 you could look for lists of HDCD albums. They were all made with a PM1 or PM2. This may be easier.

[Daudio]

My understanding is that Keith Johnson developed HDCD encoding for CD's to give more resolution than 44/16. It wasn't for 176/24 which is what Keith recorded his master files which he down converted to 44/16 to make CD's). Some of these master files Reference Recordings sells directly from the website (physical discs with 176/24 files - I have most of them - at $45 each. They then started selling them as downloads through HD Tracks for less (I don't have any of those). They shouldn't be HDCD encoded AFAIK.

 

Larry,

 

I agree. My understanding of HDCD is that it uses a control bit to allow expanding the bit depth of a redbook CD from 16 bits, to 18 or 20 in the decoded file or stream, thus increasing the dynamic range and/or SNR (not resolution). I have never heard of the process being used to expand a 24 bit file to 26 or 28 bits, and it wouldn't seem necesary, or useful, to 'guild that lily'.

 

I suspect that the artwork and other marketing materials may not have been changed for the non-redbook versions, and thus the confusion.

 

But, I could be wrong...

[The Computer Audiophile]

All RR material sold thought physical media and downloads (both 16 and 24 bit and both 44.1 and 176.4 kHz) should be HDCD encoded. The high resolution downloads I've tried and even through streaming services ave all been HDCD enabled.

[Daudio]

All RR material sold thought physical media and downloads (both 16 and 24 bit and both 44.1 and 176.4 kHz) should be HDCD encoded. The high resolution downloads I've tried and even through streaming services ave all been HDCD enabled.

 

I assume you mean that you saw the 'HDCD' light on the DAC light up, to know that the downloads and streams were HDCD encoded ?

 

I can see that all those formats may be encoded, but what I don't understand is what any HDCD decoding would do, or not do, to 24 bit inputs.

 

Any clue ?

[Daudio]

I have found what Ritter was said about these (from Goodwin's High end web site)

 

Granting that HDCD will work for DVD-Audio, the question arises again as to why you would want to use it in a format that already has such high resolution. Ritter's answer is that better resolution actually increases the need for optimizing all links in the recording/playback chain. "Let's take a camera analogy," he says, "where HDCD is like a lens with very high resolution and very low chromatic aberration. That quality can actually be better appreciated if you are making a 4x5 plate than a 35mm image. So the truth is that the advantages of all the work we do to achieve extremely low distortion and extremely high resolution are even more evident in a high-resolution format like DVD-Audio than with the CD."

 

Nice analogy, and all, but it is just marketing-speak, and doesn't give me any clues as to what HDCD decoding does to 24 bit music files and streams

 

Didn't know about HDCD applicability to DVD-A, through ! Hmmmm... is there a licensing revenue stream in this somewhere ?

[Daudio]

Lots of info here: Goodwin's High End - HDCD Mastering, Mixing, Recording

Goodwin's High End - HDCD

 

 

Ah, I had just found that, best yet, and back here to share the link - HDCD - But too late, I have been prempted

 

Anyway, I didn't find any suprises on that page. Same idea of decoding 16 bit material to 24 (with 20 bit dynamics). I'll have to continue looking later...

 

 

Digitally subtracted dithering

 

?? DSD ??

[tranz]

Rather than look for music made with a PM2 you could look for lists of HDCD albums. They were all made with a PM1 or PM2. This may be easier.

 

Thanks Chris. Since their money was earned selling the HDCD chips I thought it could have been used in other ADCs as well. You are absolutely sure about that?

[Axiom05]

Maybe Pacific Microsonic A/D conversion don't have true 24 bit resolution without hdcd, but when hdcd is enabled that give him true 24bit resolution. Dithering can do a real magic somethimes. Plasma TV's are good example

 

I don't think that HDCD encoding can increase dynamic range beyond what the original recording is. If it can, then it is totally artificial.

[tranz]

Rather than look for music made with a PM2 you could look for lists of HDCD albums. They were all made with a PM1 or PM2. This may be easier.

 

If you scroll down a bit to the HDCD section of this site, it looks like HDCD recordings could indeed have been made via a different ADC, which in turn could have had delta sigma modulation.

 

http://www.jmrcds.com/Techsample.html

[tranz]

And from an old thread:

 

HDCD recordings list, but it does not specify the ADC.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/65414/hdcd-list