Official Roon User Impressions Thread

[bubbleguuum]

DISCLAIMER: I work for Roon Labs, and have been heavily involved with communicating with TIDAL and Qobuz.

 

 

 

No. Qobuz still refuses to give us what we need. TIDAL gives us their database dumps, directly from the music labels, whereas Qobuz won't do that. The API they provide is not acceptable as it provides basic me-too functionality, and not the rich integration that Roon provides with TIDAL.

 

 

Consider you lucky that TIDAL accepted to give you their database dumps that you can process as you wish.

I cannot imagine any other music subscription service accepting to ever doing that. Instead they tell you to use their REST API (like every other god damn client), which you consider insufficient for the experience you want to provide.

This will not change. Or become you own subscription service.

[Distinctive]

The scary thing with Tidal is that if one put all the eggs in one basket one has to count on a robust delivery from a company with a healthy economy. I am not convinced how prosperous the future of Tidal is, given their financial situation.

I really hope my gut feeling is put to shame on this one, but it is hard to not speculate based on the rumors.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Consider you lucky that TIDAL accepted to give you their database dumps that you can process as you wish.

I cannot imagine any other music subscription service accepting to ever doing that. Instead they tell you to use their REST API (like every other god damn client), which you consider insufficient for the experience you want to provide.

This will not change. Or become you own subscription service.

@bubbleguuum Please list your industry affiliation. I believe you develop products that help others compete with Roon, correct?

[The Computer Audiophile]

The scary thing with Tidal is that if one put all the eggs in one basket one has to count on a robust delivery from a company with a healthy economy. I am not convinced how prosperous the future of Tidal is, given their financial situation.

I really hope my gut feeling is put to shame on this one, but it is hard to not speculate based on the rumors.

I can't wait for Spotify to go public and to release some real numbers about its finances.

[MNG]

In response to Distinctive's comment: Yes, that is one of my concerns also. I wonder whether any of these services have a long term future.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Maybe this is too off topic, if so I will move it, why wouldn't a streaming service such as Qobuz offer up its database to Roon. When a company's financial situation is not good, one would think that any chance of bringing in more customers would be a good thing. Plus, it's not like the other services have fantastic apps as an alternative to Roon.

[MNG]

Maybe this is too off topic, if so I will move it, why wouldn't a streaming service such as Qobuz offer up its database to Roon. When a company's financial situation is not good, one would think that any chance of bringing in more customers would be a good thing. Plus, it's not like the other services have fantastic apps as an alternative to Roon.

 

I agree with this. I have annual subscription to Qobuz and it is a very good service with good value downloads in hires available but, now I have committed to Roon, I may be forced to subscribe to TIDAL. If I do, I don't really need to subscribe to two similar services so Qobuz could lose a customer.

 

I won't make a difference on my own, but there may be several others who see it similar. Whereas if you are onboard with Roon, then I'd expect that you could gain a lot of additional subscribing customers.

[dannyroonlabs]

why wouldn't a streaming service such as Qobuz offer up its database to Roon.

 

It took some development to get this going. That costs engineering resources.

 

TIDAL came in with a new hook (lossless), available in most of the world, and they jumped on with Roon in Jan 2015, just a few months after their official launch. Things went wacky post sale to Roc Nation, but that's because their goal is to be a huge entertainment platform... their last promo was selling boxing tickets! That said, lots of people there love Roon and the integration is good for them and us. We bring them customers, but my guess is that it is not nearly enough for it to matter.. they need millions. Remember, post-Roc Nation, TIDAL started doing non-lossless, and have more lossy customers than lossless. Kayne and Rihanna can definitely sell millions of subscriptions.

 

Deezer was looking good with Deezer Elite, but they decided to exclusive with Sonos.. and still stuck in that. They were going to IPO, but failed to do so. We have a good relationship with them too. Too bad nothing is to be done there.

 

Plus, it's not like the other services have fantastic apps as an alternative to Roon.

 

The hardware guys figured this out.. we've been told this over and over. The problem with streaming services is that they are a commodity service unless they build some good experience around the content.

[dannyroonlabs]

I can't wait for Spotify to go public and to release some real numbers about its finances.

 

These are the most important numbers:

 

Spotify revenues topped $2bn last year as losses hit $194m - Music Business Worldwide

[Jud]

Maybe this is too off topic, if so I will move it, why wouldn't a streaming service such as Qobuz offer up its database to Roon. When a company's financial situation is not good, one would think that any chance of bringing in more customers would be a good thing. Plus, it's not like the other services have fantastic apps as an alternative to Roon.

 

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that some of the people owning/running these services have dreams of creating and "monetizing" (gaah) similar types of content for their subscribers, and have no desire to be a "me too" to Tidal with Roon, despite (I'm further guessing) the fees Roon may pay for that. I'd further guess the people who are thinking this have no idea of the amount of work required to provide such a level of information in a user friendly fashion.

 

For those who've read the Steve Jobs biography, it reminds me very much of the music industry's reluctance to let anyone make a user friendly interface for downloads, until finally the situation became so abysmal they were financially forced to let Jobs do it for them with iTunes.

[beerandmusic]

bleh...no option for song selection via tree browser.

[jaaptina]

Plus, it's not like the other services have fantastic apps as an alternative to Roon.

 

I'm very happy using Bubbleupnp with Sonore microRendu streaming Tidal (subscription), Qobuz (albums I bought) and playing my own music from the NAS. Alternating between the three is quick and simple enough. It's even possible to mix them in a playlist.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

These are the most important numbers:

 

Spotify revenues topped $2bn last year as losses hit $194m - Music Business Worldwide

 

I subscribed to Roon, but stopped using it as I found Tidal streaming quality to be a big disappointment. It is nice to discover music, but I rather spend 20 $ per month buying CD s...

 

I think there are a lot of people in my case, who are just not buying in to streaming.

 

How many Roon users are not Tidal subscribers? Curious to know.

[Dr Tone]

I subscribed to Roon, but stopped using it as I found Tidal streaming quality to be a big disappointment. It is nice to discover music, but I rather spend 20 $ per month buying CD s...

 

I think there are a lot of people in my case, who are just not buying in to streaming.

 

How many Roon users are not Tidal subscribers? Curious to know.

I cancelled my Tidal subscription.

 

1) Most albums are remastered and or you have no idea what pedigree they are. I prefer collecting and listening to specific versions of my favorite albums.

2) I found I used it for music discovery mostly. I have 12,000 albums in my personal collection already do I really need to discover more music easily?

 

I ended up switching to a Family Apple Music subscription, I use it a bit myself but mostly it's for my Nieces. Saves me $5 a month but unfortunately still helps me discover more new music to buy. Doh!

[steveoat]

Yet, Netflix is an example of a profitable streaming service, though it is not music.

 

I think we are still in the early stages of a profitable streaming model, which will eventually come to fruition.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I cancelled my Tidal subscription.

 

1) Most albums are remastered and or you have no idea what pedigree they are. I prefer collecting and listening to specific versions of my favorite albums.

2) I found I used it for music discovery mostly. I have 12,000 albums in my personal collection already do I really need to discover more music easily?

 

I ended up switching to a Family Apple Music subscription, I use it a bit myself but mostly it's for my Nieces. Saves me $5 a month but unfortunately still helps me discover more new music to buy. Doh!

 

My library is much smaller. I know it inside out and have no trouble navigating through it with even a basic software.

 

Do you find Roon to be a good software with a large library like yours? How is the roon Metadata working for you?

[Dr Tone]

My library is much smaller. I know it inside out and have no trouble navigating through it with even a basic software.

 

Do you find Roon to be a good software with a large library like yours? How is the roon Metadata working for you?

 

Metadata worked all right originally but it's much better now. That said I don't have my whole collection in Roon. My biggest problem with Roon is it's not truelly relational between artists and albums. You can't apply tags on albums and filter artists with albums with said tags. You can't filter artists that have DSD content, or HD albums.

 

Sure you can filter albums at this level but I have allot of albums I need things further categorized by artist.

 

So I've been slowly going through my collection and moving the real good stuff into a different folder. I'm up to 1300 albums and that slowly grows as I spend time reviewing other stuff in my collection. I have allot of crap in my collection and needed an easy way to differentiate good from bad and this was the only way I could do it.

[firedog]

Metadata worked all right originally but it's much better now. That said I don't have my whole collection in Roon. My biggest problem with Roon is it's not truelly relational between artists and albums. You can't apply tags on albums and filter artists with albums with said tags. You can't filter artists that have DSD content, or HD albums.

 

Simply not true. If you use the "focus" function in Roon you can do all those things and more, + you can save the definitions as a bookmarked "smartlist". Roon gives you the option of using it's tags from it's database or just your own tags in your files, and ignoring the tags in it's database. The focus function in Roon works either way:

 

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_do_I_create_a_smart_playlist%3F_How_do_I_save_a_Focus%3F

 

You probably need to look at the user guide for Roon if you didn't realize that the focus groups existed. The Roon Community forum is also a great resource, and the developers participate there regularly.

[sdolezalek]

Simply not true. If you use the "focus" function in Roon you can do all those things and more, + you can save the definitions as a bookmarked "smartlist". Roon gives you the option of using it's tags from it's database or just your own tags in your files, and ignoring the tags in it's database. The focus function in Roon works either way:

 

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_do_I_create_a_smart_playlist%3F_How_do_I_save_a_Focus%3F

 

You probably need to look at the user guide for Roon if you didn't realize that the focus groups existed.

 

Given the number of times I have heard people complain that Roon can't do this or that, when in fact it very competently can (as you say through use of the Focus function), I wonder whether Roon should make that function more obvious, as my guess is that many, if not most, of those who do a trial version of Roon never find or use it.

[Dr Tone]

Simply not true. If you use the "focus" function in Roon you can do all those things and more, + you can save the definitions as a bookmarked "smartlist". Roon gives you the option of using it's tags from it's database or just your own tags in your files, and ignoring the tags in it's database.

 

firedog, there is no way to filter in the artists view on album/track properties.

 

Using the focus filter in the albums view doesn't work for me. I don't want to have to scroll through the resultant thousands of albums in that view. I want my Artist grouping.

 

Maybe next time understand the problem or ask questions before telling someone to read a manual.

 

Everything I do is from the artists view. I would like to cut down that list of 10,000 artists to a few hundred by asking Roon to only show me artists that I have DSD content for. Or show me artists that have albums I've tagged as "Awesome". At that point when I go into one of these artist details page I only want to see those particular filtered albums. I need the filter to be relational from artists down albums and back again.

 

Again, using focus filtering at the albums level doesn't work for me!

[The Computer Audiophile]

firedog, there is no way to filter in the artists view on album/track properties.

 

Using the focus filter in the albums view doesn't work for me. I don't want to have to scroll through the resultant thousands of albums in that view. I want my Artist grouping.

 

Maybe next time understand the problem or ask questions before telling someone to read a manual.

 

Everything I do is from the artists view. I would like to cut down that list of 10,000 artists to a few hundred by asking Roon to only show me artists that I have DSD content for. Or show me artists that have albums I've tagged as "Awesome". At that point when I go into one of these artist details page I only want to see those particular filtered albums. I need the filter to be relational from artists down albums and back again.

 

Again, using focus filtering at the albums level doesn't work for me!

 

Does the Focus utility help you when looking at the Album view and sorting by Artist? This would be an expanded view of what you ideally want I'm guessing.

[firedog]

Does the Focus utility help you when looking at the Album view and sorting by Artist? This would be an expanded view of what you ideally want I'm guessing.

 

Yes, you can totally do this. I just made a focus group of all my DSD albums sorted by artist. Obviously the focus can be varied in many other ways, this is just one example. It will also depend on how you write your tags.

[Dr Tone]

Does the Focus utility help you when looking at the Album view and sorting by Artist? This would be an expanded view of what you ideally want I'm guessing.

 

I don't want to look at a list that can contain thousands of albums no matter how they are sorted.

 

Roon would be so much more powerful and user friendly to me if the filtering was relational and could be done at artists.

[firedog]

I don't want to look at a list that can contain thousands of albums no matter how they are sorted.

 

Roon would be so much more powerful and user friendly to me if the filtering was relational and could be done at artists.

 

Again, I don't get what your problem is. Previously you said:

 

Metadata worked all right originally but it's much better now. That said I don't have my whole collection in Roon. My biggest problem with Roon is it's not truelly relational between artists and albums. You can't apply tags on albums and filter artists with albums with said tags. You can't filter artists that have DSD content, or HD albums.

 

But I just did that - In album view (sorted by artist) I created a focus group limited to the format "DSD": this gave me a list of all my DSD albums sorted by artist. I then narrowed down the focus group using the the "performer" tab and picked the artists I was interested in. Got a short list of only the relevant DSD albums, sorted by artist (performer) and limited to the artists I had chosen.

 

Isn't that exactly what you said you were looking to do?

 

Again, if you tell Roon to use your tags, your tagging will determine part of the results, so your tagging has to be setup properly to work with the system.

 

If the above or some variation of it isn't good enough for you, then you seem to have some very specific way you need sorting done that can't be done in Roon. I don't think it is an issue for most users.

[Dr Tone]

Again, I don't get what your problem is. Previously you said:

 

 

 

But I just did that - In album view (sorted by artist) I created a focus group limited to the format "DSD": this gave me a list of all my DSD albums sorted by artist. I then narrowed down the focus group using the the "performer" tab and picked the artists I was interested in. Got a short list of only the relevant DSD albums, sorted by artist (performer) and limited to the artists I had chosen.

 

Isn't that exactly what you said you were looking to do?

 

Again, if you tell Roon to use your tags, your tagging will determine part of the results, so your tagging has to be setup properly to work with the system.

 

If the above or some variation of it isn't good enough for you, then you seem to have some very specific way you need sorting done that can't be done in Roon. I don't think it is an issue for most users.

 

Again you are filtering in the albums view not the artists view.

 

Applying tags on albums won't help me in artist view. Apparently I'm the only person that likes to browse his artists and then open the artist and choose an album. Preferably I'd like to start this process filtered.

 

Scrolling through a collage of thousands of albums to decide which artist and then album I want to listen to isn't efficient to me.