HQPlayer different settings for different music?

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

In the manual for HQPlayer there are descriptions for the different filters and ditherers/modulators. This includes hints as to which filters you might want to use depending on the music you're going to be listening to.

 

I'm just curious about how many of you HQPlayer users have tried different combinations, depending on the music?

 

Specifically:

 

If you have a PCM only capable DAC which up-sampling filters and ditherers do you prefer for each genre of music?

 

If you have a DAC which is both PCM and DSD capable, do you prefer to leave PCM as PCM for some music and convert to DSD for other music?

 

If the DAC is DSD only capable or you always convert to DSD, which of the DSD filter/modulator options do you prefer depending on the music?

 

If you do select different options depending on the music, do you base this on broad categories such as using one combination of settings for all classical and another for all rock, or do you use different combination based on sub categories. Such as chamber music versus symphonic or country rock as opposed to heavy metal?

 

Would you play with these combinations for different types of music if it were easier?

 

I'm really interested in feedback on this.

 

Even if there is little to no interest in using settings for different music, that will also be useful information.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

geoff

[Jabs1542]

I played with the different filters in the beginning, checking out PCM and DSD on my Lynx Hilo. Trying to assign filter combinations to certain music wasn't the panacea I was thinking it would be. I ended up figuring out the filter combination I liked best and left it there (one combo for PCM and another one for DSD). Then I bought a DSD Lampi, once I went to DSD128 I stayed with the same settings and never looked back, which is currently ploy-sinc-short and DSD7.

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming folks

[bogi]

I'm using DSD128 output for all possible scenarios - Redbook, HiRes PCM and DSD.

I'm using poly-sinc for all genres. It sounds me most natural, relaxed, analog like.

The only thing I'm changing time to time is SDM type DSD7 and ASDM7.

I consider DSD7 as more accurate and more suitable for HiRes.

ASDM7 adds more air, more soundstage depth to otherwise flat sounding Redbook recordings, I'm using it where appropriate.

For classical music rather DSD7. For progressive rock coming from CD rips - it depends on concrete recording.

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

I'm using DSD128 output for all possible scenarios - Redbook, HiRes PCM and DSD.

I'm using poly-sinc for all genres. It sounds me most natural, relaxed, analog like.

The only thing I'm changing time to time is SDM type DSD7 and ASDM7.

I consider DSD7 as more accurate and more suitable for HiRes.

ASDM7 adds more air, more soundstage depth to otherwise flat sounding Redbook recordings, I'm using it where appropriate.

For classical music rather DSD7. For progressive rock coming from CD rips - it depends on concrete recording.

 

That's interesting. So you do choose different settings depending on the Genre of Music, whether it's High-Res or Redbook and for Progressive rock, depending on the recording. Thanks.

[kurb1980]

It's not such much changing the filters/modulators and sample rate per genre. But rather spending the time to find the ideal settings that your DAC works best with "sweet spot."

[Le Concombre Masqué]

How about you Geoffrey ?!

 

this thread is a good idea. Actually, after I had a quick glance at it not long before I felt frustrated by Cohen's The Future in 24/44.1 that sounded hires and defined but not carrying the dirty pleasure of too fat leaking bass I had in memory from last listen to cd rip, I switched from my standard, never touched cause I'm convinced it's the sweet spot to quote curb, Poly-sinc/ASDM7 to (after fiddling) Poly-sinc-mp/DSD 7 and listened to my favorite tracks with that setting.

 

Funny thing is, while I agree with bogi about ASDM7 bringing more air soundstage etc, I picked DSD7 for Cohen because I found it more "organic", bass heavy, with the suspicion that I would (actually that was my finding back when I compared and settled for ASDM5 then 7) find it less natural for classical & acoustic jazz. will retest..

 

PS : I send everything DSD128 to my DAC

 

In the manual for HQPlayer there are descriptions for the different filters and ditherers/modulators. This includes hints as to which filters you might want to use depending on the music you're going to be listening to.

 

I'm just curious about how many of you HQPlayer users have tried different combinations, depending on the music?

 

Specifically:

 

If you have a PCM only capable DAC which up-sampling filters and ditherers do you prefer for each genre of music?

 

If you have a DAC which is both PCM and DSD capable, do you prefer to leave PCM as PCM for some music and convert to DSD for other music?

 

If the DAC is DSD only capable or you always convert to DSD, which of the DSD filter/modulator options do you prefer depending on the music?

 

If you do select different options depending on the music, do you base this on broad categories such as using one combination of settings for all classical and another for all rock, or do you use different combination based on sub categories. Such as chamber music versus symphonic or country rock as opposed to heavy metal?

 

Would you play with these combinations for different types of music if it were easier?

 

I'm really interested in feedback on this.

 

Even if there is little to no interest in using settings for different music, that will also be useful information.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

geoff

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

How about you Geoffrey ?!

 

this thread is a good idea. Actually, after I had a quick glance at it not long before I felt frustrated by Cohen's The Future in 24/44.1 that sounded hires and defined but not carrying the dirty pleasure of too fat leaking bass I had in memory from last listen to cd rip, I switched from my standard, never touched cause I'm convinced it's the sweet spot to quote curb, Poly-sinc/ASDM7 to (after fiddling) Poly-sinc-mp/DSD 7 and listened to my favorite tracks with that setting.

 

Funny thing is, while I agree with bogi about ASDM7 bringing more air soundstage etc, I picked DSD7 for Cohen because I found it more "organic", bass heavy, with the suspicion that I would (actually that was my finding back when I compared and settled for ASDM5 then 7) find it less natural for classical & acoustic jazz. will retest..

 

PS : I send everything DSD128 to my DAC

 

You put me on the spot

 

I convert everything to DSD256 to send to the exasound e22 and I also find myself going between poly-sinc/DSD7, poly-sinc-mp/DSD7 and either of those combined with ASDM7.

 

…but I'm open to ideas and eager to learn from other people's experience's.

 

I run a number of systems here, so what suits one system doesn't always work with another. I find I'm more inclined to poly-sinc-mp/ASDM7 with Avantgarde Speakers for example.

 

I'l looking into ways that different settings could automatically be applied when I launch HQPlayer depending on the Album to be played. This wouldn't be worth doing if people always stuck with the same settings. Based on feedback so far though, it looks like it could be worth implementing.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

geoff

[Le Concombre Masqué]

Thank you,

 

after just one more record (2 pianos, live) I feel like revising my opinion on DSD7 and opting for it (piano/pianists personalities/timbres/touch/tone better differentiated and clearer boundaries) in Preferences, at least for a while.

But it seems to tax the cpu even more (19% vs 14%, quick glance, no statistics here) and I'm already plagued by dropouts. Anyway, if they come from the buffer time that can't be modified with OS X, that won't be neither worse nor better...

 

As of the filters, I feel uncomfortable with any departure from poly-sinc but if it's to solve a problem : the thread reactivated the suggestion to try poly-sinc-mp when I'm unhappy with the sound (not that often and depending as much on physiology than of any other factor, I think...) but I would not opt for a meta tag triggered based on music type switch... nice idea though and others might feel different

You put me on the spot

 

I convert everything to DSD256 to send to the exasound e22 and I also find myself going between poly-sinc/DSD7, poly-sinc-mp/DSD7 and either of those combined with ASDM7.

 

…but I'm open to ideas and eager to learn from other people's experience's.

 

I run a number of systems here, so what suits one system doesn't always work with another. I find I'm more inclined to poly-sinc-mp/ASDM7 with Avantgarde Speakers for example.

 

I'l looking into ways that different settings could automatically be applied when I launch HQPlayer depending on the Album to be played. This wouldn't be worth doing if people always stuck with the same settings. Based on feedback so far though, it looks like it could be worth implementing.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

geoff

[AnotherSpin]

I use poly-sink and ASDM7. Any other combination gives an effect of something "added" to the sound.

[mevdinc]

Hi Geoff,

 

Good thread!

I was going to put you on the spot but Le Concombre beat me to it!

 

As can be seen form my signature I have a PCM only capable DAC with 384kHz capability.

I use "ploy-sinc-short-mp, NS4, PCM" and gives me very good result.

 

I'm on the look out for a DSD DAC and finding it difficult to make my mind up, too many good choices!

Managed to narrow my list down to the following and would be grateful for any comments and user experiences with any or all of them!

 

PS Direct Stream (since it upsamples everything not sure if HQPlayer would be very useful with it)

exaSound e22

Mytek Manahattan (it has analog inputs which I need for my home cinema setup)

Zodiac Platinum (it has analog inputs and a good preamp but not sure if it's as good as the others anymore)

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Mev

[bogi]

Hi mevdinc, Miska recommends NS5 dither for 352.8/384 kHz in this post: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/hqplayer-resampling-filter-setup-guide-ordinary-person-13298/#post177180

 

I didn't compare NS4 and NS5 by ears, just as a hint.

[EuroDriver]

I only do PCM to DSD 256.

My preference on good recordings is Polysinc with DSD7 but when I have done demos for others, two 30 somethings and a 50 something, they all much preferred ASDM7

 

When the recording is not so good then I like ASDM7. On my setup, I find it hard to go away from the Polysinc filter. My Hexcore game machine has the setup time reduced to about 21 seconds, down from 35 seconds of my quadcore. I have yet to do a sound comparison between hexcore and quad core

[mevdinc]

Hi mevdinc, Miska recommends NS5 dither for 352.8/384 kHz in this post: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/hqplayer-resampling-filter-setup-guide-ordinary-person-13298/#post177180

 

I didn't compare NS4 and NS5 by ears, just as a hint.

 

Thanks Bogi, you're spot on, my bad, I do use NS5!

 

Sorry to nudge you people on this but I'de grateful any comments on any of the DACs below.

 

My short list for the DSD DAC I'd like to buy:

 

- PS Direct Stream (since it upsamples everything not sure if HQPlayer would be very useful with it)

- exaSound e22

- Mytek Manahattan (it has analog inputs which I need for my home cinema setup)

- Zodiac Platinum (it has analog inputs and a good preamp but not sure if it's as good as the others anymore)

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Mev

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Thanks Bogi, you're spot on, my bad, I do use NS5!

 

Sorry to nudge you people on this but I'de grateful any comments on any of the DACs below.

 

My short list for the DSD DAC I'd like to buy:

 

- PS Direct Stream (since it upsamples everything not sure if HQPlayer would be very useful with it)

- exaSound e22

- Mytek Manahattan (it has analog inputs which I need for my home cinema setup)

- Zodiac Platinum (it has analog inputs and a good preamp but not sure if it's as good as the others anymore)

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Mev

 

Hi Mev,

 

I haven't any direct experience of the PS Direct Stream or Mytek dacs.

 

I am a dealer for both exasound and Zodiac, dacs so please keep that in mind; but I believe my following comments are objective:

 

exasound is for people who believe it's better to do any up-sampling/conversion in software on a PC rather than in the DAC itself. I believe George has effectively bypassed the Sabre chips default oversampling, so this could be considered similar in concept in certain respects to a NOS dac (hopefully George will correct me if I'm off base).

 

The results are superb when using HQPlayer or indeed the free Foobar2000 with the foo_sacd addon. My preference is for HQPlayer; but for a free solution the Foobar route is pretty darn good.

 

The exa benefits from exasound having developed their own custom ASIO drivers for Win and Mac (Kudos to George), still waiting for the Linux drivers though. So no DOP here with it's limitations. If you're thinking of going multi-channel the e28 provides DSD256 and PCM384khz on all 8 channels! It has both balanced and RCA output and can function as a pre-amp.

 

The exasounds come with switching PS's and do benefit from good after-market linear PS's. At least that's my experience with the J2 I currently have on generous loan from eurodriver.

 

The Zodiac Platinum already comes as standard with their separate Voltikus LPS, and it has great flexibility in terms of its connectivity and also has the ability to function as a pre-amp and headphone amp with two different headphone impedance connections and separate volume control for the cans.

 

I see the Zodiac Platinum as being for non-computer audiophiles as well as computer audiophiles, because it's up-sampling feature to PCM384khz and DSD256 can be used to improve any digital source. So either all or some of the "heavy-lifting" can be done by the DAC itself.

 

This can be an advantage to computer audiophiles as well, if they are running relatively modest PC's which can't handle some of the more demanding conversions/up-sampling work by themselves. With the Zodiac the PC and DAC can share the burden.

 

For example on a less than the best internet connection, I found that asking HQPlayer to convert a Qobuz stream all the way from 44.1khz to DSD256 was a bit too much. You might run into similar problems with files on your hard drive depending on your PC resources.

 

Being able to use HQPlayer to convert from redbook to DSD64 and then have the Zodiac bump it up the rest of the way to DSD256 was a real advantage in those situations.

 

One frustration I ran into with the Zodiac was that if you have a DSD128 file and have the Zodiac further up it to DSD256, the gain from the Zodiac was cut in half. This is a known problem and was supposed to be fixed by a firmware upgrade. I need to check with them if this has been solved yet. It also meant that if I used HQP or another player to up-sample/convert anything to DSD128, the same problem would occur when using the Zodiac to take it further to DSD256.

 

The onboard chips oversampling still comes into play, I believe, with the Zodiac.

 

There is no native support for DSD256 so you can't send it real native DSD256, neither can you up to DSD256 in software and expect it to be accepted by the Zodiac. The Zodiac is limited to DSD over dop only and that's probably the cause of this limitation.

 

The up-sampling feature of the Zodiac can be turned on or off, which is really useful.

 

So the bottom line is, that if you have enough PC horsepower and for streaming a good internet connection of more than 7mbs, you might be better of with the exasound; but you would eventually want to add a linear PS.

 

Otherwise the Zodiac is a very flexible machine which can share the burden with the PC source for improving SQ.

 

Zodiac has a bit more of a studio precision sound, though I don't mean by that to suggest it's overly analytical or cool. It has great resolving power.

 

The exasounds are a little more relaxed and organic, though these differences are relatively subtle so please don't read to much into them.

 

Both of them are excellent dacs.

 

I hope it helps.

 

geoff

[mevdinc]

Geoff,

 

Thank you very much indeed for the detailed info on exsaound and zodiac DACs, so kind!

 

As the Zodiac Gold owner I naturally thought about getting the Platinum but as you say not supporting native DSD did put me off a bit! Again like you say it is very flexible and has plenty of inputs (both digital and analog) and a very good preamp section too!

 

But since then some really good DSD DACs hit the market such as PS DS, exasound e22/e28, Mytek Manhattan and few others.

 

I would rather I did the upsampling either in the DAC or by the software, mixing it may cause side effects due to the different filtering used by the DAC and software, I would have thought but I guess in your experience this isn't the case if you ignore the DSD128 to DSD256 problem with the Platinum.

That's why I'm in two minds about PS DS as it already does massive upsampling itself! I guess I can use Audirvana for playback in this case!

BTW, it's a lot easier and cheaper to upgrade PC

 

Ultimately, I will probably have to narrow it down to a couple and find a way to compare them at home or at a dealer!

I will be moving to Barcelona soon, so if anyone knows any dealers to recommend would be great!

 

Best.

Mev

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Geoff,

 

Thank you very much indeed for the detailed info on exsaound and zodiac DACs, so kind!

 

As the Zodiac Gold owner I naturally thought about getting the Platinum but as you say not supporting native DSD did put me off a bit! Again like you say it is very flexible and has plenty of inputs (both digital and analog) and a very good preamp section too!

 

But since then some really good DSD DACs hit the market such as PS DS, exasound e22/e28, Mytek Manhattan and few others.

 

I would rather I did the upsampling either in the DAC or by the software, mixing it may cause side effects due to the different filtering used by the DAC and software, I would have thought but I guess in your experience this isn't the case if you ignore the DSD128 to DSD256 problem with the Platinum.

That's why I'm in two minds about PS DS as it already does massive upsampling itself! I guess I can use Audirvana for playback in this case!

BTW, it's a lot easier and cheaper to upgrade PC

 

Ultimately, I will probably have to narrow it down to a couple and find a way to compare them at home or at a dealer!

I will be moving to Barcelona soon, so if anyone knows any dealers to recommend would be great!

 

Best.

Mev

 

Please send me a pm. I'll be able to help you; but I don't think it's appropriate to discuss that aspect here.

 

Thanks,

 

geoff