UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[RolandAvalon]

My music server has a dedicated LPS and it has 2 extra outputs to connect a device. One output delivers 5v and the other 12v. Can I use the 12v to power the regen using the Bricasti M1 dac?

[RolandAvalon]

Cables have now had about 100hrs on them, everything just sounds so effortless and natural sounding. vocals have more emotion,

the curious cables are helping my Dave withdrawal

 

Thanks! I'm looking forward to listen to the regen and same cables you are using.....

[sandyk]

My music server has a dedicated LPS and it has 2 extra outputs to connect a device. One output delivers 5v and the other 12v. Can I use the 12v to power the regen using the Bricasti M1 dac?

 

The Bricasti M1 does draw current from the Regen, so to be on the safe side you would need to find out how much current it draws , perhaps using a cheap inline USB Voltage and Current meter, and provide that information to John Swenson for evaluation before powering the Regen from +12V long term.

I hope to obtain that information at our next listening session, which has yet to be scheduled.

Even if not very accurate, something like at the attached link should give a reasonable indication.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-Charger-Capacity-Power-Current-Voltage-Voltage-Meters-Tester-/141736046934?hash=item2100207156:g:08IAAOSwLVZVwHPC

[audio.bill]

I also own the Bricasti M1 DAC and use the Regen with it. I contacted Brian Zolner at Bricasti before using a 9 volt LPS to inquire about the current draw. His response was that the complete M1 DAC draws less than 1000mA, and estimates that the USB input draws 100mA at most, so it was safe to use with the 9 volt supply since it was well under the 500mA USB maximum. I have been using the 9 volt supply for several months with no problem. Hopefully this information can help you determine whether the 12 volt supply can also be safely used with the M1 DAC.

[Superdad]

I also own the Bricasti M1 DAC and use the Regen with it. I contacted Brian Zolner at Bricasti before using a 9 volt LPS to inquire about the current draw. His response was that the complete M1 DAC draws less than 1000mA, and estimates that the USB input draws 100mA at most, ...

 

That being the case, then yes, 12V is completely safe for the REGEN with the Bricasti. 100mA draw on the 7 volt drop (12V>5V = 7V) will result in just 0.7 watts of heat for the REGEN's 5V reg to dissipate. That's nothing. We are just trying to keep people from generating much more than about 2.2W, as the chip only heat sinks with the PCB's 9 vias under its center.

 

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Duplicate post. Oops.

[XP9433]

That being the case, then yes, 12V is completely safe for the REGEN with the Bricasti. 100mA draw on the 7 volt drop (12V>5V = 7V) will result in just 0.7 watts of heat for the REGEN's 5V reg to dissipate. That's nothing. We are just trying to keep people from generating much more than about 2.2W, as the chip only heat sinks with the PCB's 9 vias under its center.

 

--Alex C.

 

Alex

 

I have tried a 12V battery to power the Regen into a iDSD Micro. The Regen gets hot - I estimate about 45 - 50 degrees centigrade by my touch. Is this a no-no?

 

Thanks

Frank

[sandyk]

Alex

 

I have tried a 12V battery to power the Regen into a iDSD Micro. The Regen gets hot - I estimate about 45 - 50 degrees centigrade by my touch. Is this a no-no?

 

Thanks

Frank

 

Frank

I will let Alex C or John answer that question, but just remember that electrolytic capacitor lifetime decreases with increased temperature.

Alex K.

[sandyk]

Alex

 

I have tried a 12V battery to power the Regen into a iDSD Micro. The Regen gets hot - I estimate about 45 - 50 degrees centigrade by my touch. Is this a no-no?

 

Thanks

Frank

 

Frank

I will let Alex C or John answer that question, but just remember that electrolytic capacitor lifetime decreases with increased temperature.

Alex K.

[baddog]

That seems awfully warm for the Regen. I would suggest not using the battery anymore till you receive confirmation. I don't feel any heat from my Regen which is powered by the JS-2.

[XP9433]

That seems awfully warm for the Regen. I would suggest not using the battery anymore till you receive confirmation. I don't feel any heat from my Regen which is powered by the JS-2.

 

Exactly, which is why I was concerned, stopped using it, and am asking. I could probably step the battery down to 9V, but I don't know how to achieve that.

[JohnSwenson]

Frank

I will let Alex C or John answer that question, but just remember that electrolytic capacitor lifetime decreases with increased temperature.

Alex K.

 

The only electrolytic in the REGEN is rated for 105C, so 50C is probably fine.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

Alex

 

I have tried a 12V battery to power the Regen into a iDSD Micro. The Regen gets hot - I estimate about 45 - 50 degrees centigrade by my touch. Is this a no-no?

 

Thanks

Frank

 

Uh, a 4,000mW USB bus-powered headphone amp? Yeah, that is exactly the sort of load that we don't want with a 7V drop (from 12V to 5V) on the REGEN's 5V regulator. There is a battery in the iDSD Micro, but who knows what its charging circuit draws. Probably pushes right at the 500mA USB VBUS spec limit.

 

Please read the REGEN FAQ on this subject at USB REGEN: Questions and Answers – UpTone Audio

 

This is not aimed at you Frank, but to be honest, I kind of wish this whole subject would go away as it has been covered so many times. Most manufacturers specify a single input voltage for their products and that is it. I suppose we opened ourselves up to this by putting the 6~8V legend on the REGEN's DC jack.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Jiffi32]

Guess you can't run native hi-res material then as the Olimex USB-ISO is limited to 12mbps Full Speed and does not pass High Speed USB data.

 

Only have red book files so its not a problem for me. But yes it is no good if you want to play hi-res

[XP9433]

Uh, a 4,000mW USB bus-powered headphone amp? Yeah, that is exactly the sort of load that we don't want with a 7V drop (from 12V to 5V) on the REGEN's 5V regulator. There is a battery in the iDSD Micro, but who knows what its charging circuit draws. Probably pushes right at the 500mA USB VBUS spec limit.

 

Thanks Alex. Luckily I only use the Micro in battery mode, so I assume the Micro's charging circuit is not in use?

 

Please read the REGEN FAQ on this subject

 

Done now. I seem to have missed something or misunderstood along the way!

 

I'll wait until the additional mystery items are available.

 

Thanks

Frank

[RolandAvalon]

That being the case, then yes, 12V is completely safe for the REGEN with the Bricasti. 100mA draw on the 7 volt drop (12V>5V = 7V) will result in just 0.7 watts of heat for the REGEN's 5V reg to dissipate. That's nothing. We are just trying to keep people from generating much more than about 2.2W, as the chip only heat sinks with the PCB's 9 vias under its center.

 

--Alex C.

 

Thanks. I will try when I've recieved the regen.

[Jud]

I kind of wish this whole subject would go away....

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

Price of popularity in a hobby full of tweakers, my friend. Enjoy your vacation!

[Solstice380]

JS-2s are pretty well damped, so they will probably just go "thunk" and not bounce. A REGEN on the other hand might actually bounce off the surface, but due to the geometry is not likely to bounce in the direction you wish. This would make "REGEN ping pong" a very frustrating game.

 

John S.

 

Maybe you need to start making the Cubli - shown in the video link here:

 

The Cubli: a cube that can jump up, balance, and 'walk' - ASM International

[Jud]

Maybe you need to start making the Cubli - shown in the video link here:

 

The Cubli: a cube that can jump up, balance, and 'walk' - ASM International

 

First the cute little cube that can walk, next thing you know Arnold Schwarzenegger's coming after you with glowing red eyes....

[Solstice380]

First the cute little cube that can walk, next thing you know Arnold Schwarzenegger's coming after you with glowing red eyes....

 

In Uptone's case I would expect Amber eyes!

[Forehaven]

Uh, a 4,000mW USB bus-powered headphone amp? Yeah, that is exactly the sort of load that we don't want with a 7V drop (from 12V to 5V) on the REGEN's 5V regulator. There is a battery in the iDSD Micro, but who knows what its charging circuit draws. Probably pushes right at the 500mA USB VBUS spec limit.

 

Please read the REGEN FAQ on this subject at USB REGEN: Questions and Answers – UpTone Audio

 

This is not aimed at you Frank, but to be honest, I kind of wish this whole subject would go away as it has been covered so many times. Most manufacturers specify a single input voltage for their products and that is it. I suppose we opened ourselves up to this by putting the 6~8V legend on the REGEN's DC jack.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

So Alex, I too have a Micro. So what would be your recommended/optimal 'USB and POWER' setup for this device given the USB power? And given this setup, would it be better in the long run to look to buy a DSD dac that's not bus powered?

 

Thanks. Id rather not spend a lot of money to get around the bus powered problem if it'd be better money spent saving for a new DAC?

 

Chris

[realmassy]

Here are my impressions of the Regen I received a few weeks ago.

This little box is a fantastic match with my Lector DigicodeS192, I'm completely blown away by the improvement it brought in my system. The sound is much more relaxed, smoother, grain free, the bass, which may sound a bit loose, has better definition and articulation. The strongest points of this DAC, like the rich midrange and meaty vocals, are still there.

Before getting the Regen I already demoed a Schhit Yggrdasil and decided to sell the Lector. In fact I bought the Yggy just a few days before receiving the Regen, but should have waited LOL, the Lector and the Regen are a wonderful match.

On the Yggy the difference is less evident, to the point I'm not even sure there's a difference, I need to listen more carefully in the next weeks. Now I have to DAC which I like a lot :-)

I think the Regen in the right context is possibly one of the best upgrades out there

[Superdad]

So Alex, I too have a Micro. So what would be your recommended/optimal 'USB and POWER' setup for this device given the USB power? And given this setup, would it be better in the long run to look to buy a DSD dac that's not bus powered?

 

Chris: There's nothing wrong with having a bus-powered DAC that you like. And the REGEN is more than capable of powering it (USB spec requires that devices not draw more than 0.5A from the VBUS, but the REGEN's ultra-low-noise regulators are good up to 1 amp).

My point was that it is not appropriate to power the REGEN with a 12V supply when using a bus-powered DAC. Seven of those twelve volts gets thrown away--dissipated as heat--and since amps times volts equals watts, a device drawing the USB-spec max 0.5A is going to generate an excessive 3.5 watts of heat on the REGEN's reg chip and PCB (0.5 x the 7V drop from 12 to 5 = 3.5W).

 

So for a bus-powered DAC--or any DAC where someone is not sure how much is drawn (even a lot of DACs with their own full AC>DC PS are entirely bus-powering thier USB input boards), please choose a 9V or less PS for the REGEN. Or just use the decent 7.5 SMPS that came with it.

 

Best,

-Alex C.

[zilch0md]

You take good care of us, Superdad. You're a bottomless pit of patience.

[Superdad]

Aw, shucks Mike. No one has ever called me a bottomless pit…

 

Thanks to you too and everyone here for helping others out all year (and for your general support and enthusiasm). I already drown in e-mail but it is probably the last task I will be able to train someone else to handle. Besides, chatin' with my fellow audiophile peeps is what I live for!