UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[Nikhil]

Exactly.

Can it also get rid of that consumer grade SMPS designed in leakage problem, that sees the DC output of the supply having an AC voltage of up to half the mains supply voltage and frequency, along with the noisy HF ripple on it between it and Earth ? It's not only the SMPS switching frequency and it's harmonics getting back into the AC mains supply that matters.

 

The Array Solutions filter is designed primarily for ham radio. I couldn't answer your question but if it's good enough for those guys, then it's good enough for me. I can't find it now but I read somewhere that the USAF was a customer for Array Solutions as well.

[sandyk]

The Array Solutions filter is designed primarily for ham radio. I couldn't answer your question but if it's good enough for those guys and even the USAF, then it's good enough for me.

 

The only device that I am presently aware of that has these capabilities, will be Uptone Audio's new John Swenson designed "Mystery" PSU.

[4est]

Rhetorically, why would it automatically be good for audio if it was designed for Ham radio? I am not saying it isn't good for audio per se, but I question the conflation. My suggestion was that a separate power supply with soft recovery diodes and an r-core transformer for less than the Array Solutions appears to be the more direct route to a better solution. Have you tried the Array into the el Cheapo?

The Array Solutions filter is designed primarily for ham radio. I couldn't answer your question but if it's good enough for those guys, then it's good enough for me. I can't find it now but I read somewhere that the USAF was a customer for Array Solutions as well.

[Nikhil]

Again not an expert in this area but I understand that radios are extremely sensitive to noise especially power line noise. The only reason I am using them is Jim Simth's recommendation. I'm calling it as I hear it in my setup.

 

I don't have the Chinese LPS. I have the HDPlex LPS.

[4est]

I am not looking to argue, but was merely pointing out that what the Array filter does is a distinctly separate function than that of the power supply if used in the future with the unreleased Uptone PS add on as someone suggested. If the UA add on is not effected by the incoming power quality, then the back emf/rfi would be the next thing to address. In this, one would likely be better off not having a SMPS in the first place, and using a decent transformer based PS for less money. My response in this was based on a poster purchasing an Array Solutions for future use with a Mean Well and the UA add on. I stated that the El Cheapo PS was likely a better solution for this instance than the Array. FWIW, I imagine the Array Solutions is a fine product, and I have had J Smith's book long before it was noted around here.

Again not an expert in this area but I understand that radios are extremely sensitive to noise especially power line noise. The only reason I am using them is Jim Simth's recommendation. I'm calling it as I hear it in my setup.

 

I don't have the Chinese LPS. I have the HDPlex LPS.

[Nikhil]

Fair enough. Not really saying more than what I have said already.

Based on what I am hearing - the Array Filter + Meanwell makes for a decent alternative to an LPS.

[odelay]

Re: power filters

 

I note many here use a brick wall filter for their noisy stuff. I use a parallel filter.

 

Blue Circle x6 Sillycone

 

Here is a demo that suggests it helps to lower noise:

[satfrat]

I am not looking to argue, but was merely pointing out that what the Array filter does is a distinctly separate function than that of the power supply if used in the future with the unreleased Uptone PS add on as someone suggested. If the UA add on is not effected by the incoming power quality, then the back emf/rfi would be the next thing to address. In this, one would likely be better off not having a SMPS in the first place, and using a decent transformer based PS for less money. My response in this was based on a poster purchasing an Array Solutions for future use with a Mean Well and the UA add on. I stated that the El Cheapo PS was likely a better solution for this instance than the Array. FWIW, I imagine the Array Solutions is a fine product, and I have had J Smith's book long before it was noted around here.

 

Both the Array AC filter and El Cheapo filter AC power so in that respect, they have a similar function. El Cheapo also converts AC to DC as does the $14 MeanWell SMPS. Only by directly comparing the 2 ( as Nikhil has done with the HDPlex LPS) will one know which direction is preferred. The price difference between the 2 directions now aren't all that drastic IMO. The Uptone Audio Mystery PS could change all that even tho it'll work with either LPS or SMPS and I'm thinking El Cheapo will benefit from using it.

[groovybassist]

What's been lost in this discussion is my interest in supporting US businesses and the warranty that comes with the AC-7 from Array Solutions. Is it the simplest or nominally cheapest path? No, but it satisfies more of my personal interests than the "el cheapo" does.

 

Edit added:

 

I also plan to continue supporting Uptone when the mystery PS add-on becomes available, just as I have when I purchased the original "green" Regen and the "Amber" upgrade.

[4est]

What? These devices may share some nomenclature, but they are not at all the same devices, nor are they mutually exclusive. The Array filters AC line voltage (a power conditioner), the other (a linear PS) has a AC filtering as part of DC regulation after the AC is rectified. I cannot say what sounds better, and I do not want to beat a dead horse, but the notion of purchasing a power conditioner to continue using the provided Meanwell does not make sense to me. There is an intrinsically better route that is cheaper. There are a hundred ways to do this...

 

Alex C- my apologies for the diversion.

Both the Array AC filter and El Cheapo filter AC power so in that respect, they have a similar function. El Cheapo also converts AC to DC as does the $14 MeanWell SMPS. Only by directly comparing the 2 ( as Nikhil has done with the HDPlex LPS) will one know which direction is preferred. The price difference between the 2 directions now aren't all that drastic IMO. The Uptone Audio Mystery PS could change all that even tho it'll work with either LPS or SMPS and I'm thinking El Cheapo will benefit from using it.

[4est]

What's been lost in this discussion is my interest in supporting US businesses and the warranty that comes with the AC-7 from Array Solutions. Is it the simplest or nominally cheapest path? No, but it satisfies more of my personal interests than the "el cheapo" does.

 

Edit added:

 

I also plan to continue supporting Uptone when the mystery PS add-on becomes available, just as I have when I purchased the original "green" Regen and the "Amber" upgrade.

 

It is a different path altogether. No competent engineer would suggest buying a power conditioner to make a cheap (Chinese btw) SMPS perform better when a cheaper reasonably well spec'd alternative was present. Do what you want, you could buy an American power supply then if that is how you feel. This is an international forum, and I refuse to make suggestions based on country of origin.

[Superdad]

Re: power filters

 

I note many here use a brick wall filter for their noisy stuff. I use a parallel filter.

 

Blue Circle x6 Sillycone

 

Here is a demo that suggests it helps to lower noise:

 

Gilbert (Blue Circle) always cracks me up (was nice to run into him at RMAF last month). He loves his silicone. Did you ever see his Music Pumps? Of course there was a matching purse that went with them!

 

[sandyk]

I am not looking to argue, but was merely pointing out that what the Array filter does is a distinctly separate function than that of the power supply if used in the future with the unreleased Uptone PS add on as someone suggested. If the UA add on is not effected by the incoming power quality, then the back emf/rfi would be the next thing to address. In this, one would likely be better off not having a SMPS in the first place, and using a decent transformer based PS for less money. My response in this was based on a poster purchasing an Array Solutions for future use with a Mean Well and the UA add on. I stated that the El Cheapo PS was likely a better solution for this instance than the Array. FWIW, I imagine the Array Solutions is a fine product, and I have had J Smith's book long before it was noted around here.

 

I completely agree with Forrest. We need to remember here that consumer grade electronics that use SMPS normally have an obligatory low value, high voltage capacitor between Primary and Secondary sides of the PSU which causes the mains leakage problems. Commercial and larger power SMPS do not need this capacitor and are very much cleaner than your consumer grade supply. In fact, many of those are reported to be much cleaner than a typical Linear PSU of similar capabilities. It would seem likely that most Ham Radio power supplies used in high powered Transceivers etc. , and military type supplies would fall into this category. Most consumer grade SMPS as used in CD/DVD players etc. are cheap and nasty !

 

This is an international forum, and I refuse to make suggestions based on country of origin.

 

Very wise indeed !

[odelay]

Gilbert is one fantabulous character. Sadly, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him. It would be an honour... and an absolute hoot!

 

He was kind enough to make me up a Silycone without the toxic pipe (and was well versed in our volatile voltage here in the Land of Oz). I'd like to try more of his creations (especially his low hZ filter).

 

I applaud Gilbert's efforts to make quality products at an affordable price. Likewise, I thank you guys for trying to make Voldermort something us mere mortals can buy.

 

OT...

I'm in Estonia - two months into a three month trip. Missing my stereo terribly. Having to 'make do' with an opera, a symphony and a couple jazz concerts... (Costing €63 all in... Obscenely cheap by Australian standards!)

 

Not generally one to see a 'covers' band.. But looking forward to this Miles Davis tribute tomorrow at Tallinn's magnificent little concert hall. (Logan Jackson and some Paris Trio? but for €5, how could I say no?)

 

[groovybassist]

4est:

 

I'm not buying the AC-7 to condition the AC power to the Meanwell. I'm buying it simply to prevent the Meanwell from injecting noise back into my AC line - nothing more, nothing less. I realize it's not the method you would choose or consider the most effective.

 

I make no claim to being a competent engineer and clearly don't meet that standard in your eyes. Guess it's good you're not my boss and don't need to approve my purchases.

[4est]

Point taken!

 

If you would prefer to band aid a problem instead of remove it, it is obviously your decision. My statements aren't meant to force you to do anything, but state better options for others to consider. This is a public forum where people come to learn.

4est:

 

I'm not buying the AC-7 to condition the AC power to the Meanwell. I'm buying it simply to prevent the Meanwell from injecting noise back into my AC line - nothing more, nothing less. I realize it's not the method you would choose or consider the most effective.

 

I make no claim to being a competent engineer and clearly don't meet that standard in your eyes. Guess it's good you're not my boss and don't need to approve my purchases.

[satfrat]

What? These devices may share some nomenclature, but they are not at all the same devices, nor are they mutually exclusive. The Array filters AC line voltage (a power conditioner), the other (a linear PS) has a AC filtering as part of DC regulation after the AC is rectified. I cannot say what sounds better, and I do not want to beat a dead horse, but the notion of purchasing a power conditioner to continue using the provided Meanwell does not make sense to me. There is an intrinsically better route that is cheaper. There are a hundred ways to do this...

 

Alex C- my apologies for the diversion.

 

I think we can both agree that we're all looking for what will elevates the Regen's performance the most and at the best price that's affordable for each of us. Personally I'm very happy with the Regen's performance with the stock $14 MeanWell SMPS. I have enough system power conditioning throughout my A/V system that SMPS's don't affect my audio so I'm not sure if the Array AC Filter would have any positive effect for me. I have no doubt an LPS would so I'm in full agreement with you..

[groovybassist]

4est:

 

Clearly your statements can't force anyone to do anything, but there is a judgmental aspect to your comments that goes beyond sharing information so others can learn.

 

If two approaches at similar cost solve the same problem, why is the one you don't agree with considered the bandaid? Isn't it possible the AC-7 and Meanwell will sound better than the "el cheapo" and be more reliable? If that's the case, which is the bandaid? My point is considering either a better solution without considering the totality of its use and life cycle is shortsighted.

 

There's a difference between being open minded and sharing, and being judgmental and focused only on your own narrow perspective.

[4est]

I am sorry if I am being judgmental in your eyes. It is a bandaid because the AC 7 is fixing something created by the Meanwell that is not there with the Breeze Audio aka el Cheapo.

 

Let's get something straight. I jokingly coined the phrase el Cheapo by accident as I couldn't recall the name, but it is not poorly constructed, and has pretty good parts including an r-core transformer. One of the benefits of these r core transformers is the isolation. They are pretty nice for stuff like this.

 

In my eyes, I see a suggestion to purchase and item an attempt to ameliorate an issue when the same money can eliminate the problem altogether. I am also not suggesting the AC 7 is a bad product, but a power line filter does not equal a decent power supply in my experience.

 

 

4est:

 

Clearly your statements can't force anyone to do anything, but there is a judgmental aspect to your comments that goes beyond sharing information so others can learn.

 

If two approaches at similar cost solve the same problem, why is the one you don't agree with considered the bandaid? Isn't it possible the AC-7 and Meanwell will sound better than the "el cheapo" and be more reliable? If that's the case, which is the bandaid? My point is considering either a better solution without considering the totality of its use and life cycle is shortsighted.

 

There's a difference between being open minded and sharing, and being judgmental and focused only on your own narrow perspective.

[groovybassist]

4est:

 

Good luck with the Breeze - I hope it serves you well over the long haul.

 

I remain unconvinced that it's the only solution, simply because of the type of product it is and in your judgement has pretty good parts. We're not talking about products in the same league as an Uptone JS-2.

 

I consider both of our approaches compromised and believe others should do what works for them vs. everyone else.

 

Enjoy.

[Superdad]

Good grief. Will you guys please knock it off already? This isn't even a power supply thread anyway.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[groovybassist]

I'll zip it Alex - my apologies.

 

-Mike

[jabbr]

I am not looking to argue, but was merely pointing out that what the Array filter does is a distinctly separate function than that of the power supply if used in the future with the unreleased Uptone PS add on as someone suggested. If the UA add on is not effected by the incoming power quality, then the back emf/rfi would be the next thing to address. In this, one would likely be better off not having a SMPS in the first place, and using a decent transformer based PS for less money. My response in this was based on a poster purchasing an Array Solutions for future use with a Mean Well and the UA add on. I stated that the El Cheapo PS was likely a better solution for this instance than the Array. FWIW, I imagine the Array Solutions is a fine product, and I have had J Smith's book long before it was noted around here.

 

+1 I have several Array Solutions, and they work very well for their intended purpose, being a filter. It does not claim to be a power supply:)

[4est]

4est:

 

Good luck with the Breeze - I hope it serves you well over the long haul.

 

ROTFLMAO! So says the person that insists on using a cheap(Chinese btw) plastic encapsulated SMPS. If you would have pulled your head out of the sand and Googled "Breeze Audio" you might have noticed that their stuff is not at all flimsy or poorly constructed.

[groovybassist]

4est:

 

Per Alex C's request above, I've ceased this discussion. Your continued snarky comments are uncalled for and simply throw light on the kind of person you really are.