sandyk Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Previously, I reported that at a recent listening session, we heard marked improvements when the supplied +7.5V SMPS Plug Pack was powered by a +12V SMPS Plug pack into a LM317T voltage regulator set for +9V output, then into a JLH PSU add-on. This morning I converted an existing +5V Linear PSU to +9V output, again followed by a JLH PSU add-on, and made fresh rips to a new folder on the same Corsair Voyager via the Regen. Both the earlier rips created using the +12V SMPS plug pack etc. and the fresh rips were then played from the Corsair Voyager using the +9V JLH Linear PSU. I only needed to play “The Beatles-Come Together” to realise that the new Linear PSU created version is quite noticeably better in the 3D area. Some of you guys may be in for a real treat when the new "Mystery" PSU becomes available. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Freann Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I was plagued by listening fatigue for some time. I “whitening” of the upper mids/lower treble. I made two changes for the better, both involving power supplies: 1. Running optical ethernet with the receiver powered by the SMTP tht came with the Regen. When I changed it to an old heavy (linear?) wall wart the “whitening” immediately decreased. 2. Removed the green Regen, now running amber only. This way both the amber Regen and the optical ethernet receiver can be powered powered by a JS-2 via a split cable. Better still. Conclusion SMPS, even high quality variants, does not belong in a hifi setup. Kill all SMPS!!! Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
satfrat Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I was plagued by listening fatigue for some time. I “whitening” of the upper mids/lower treble. I made two changes for the better, both involving power supplies: 1. Running optical ethernet with the receiver powered by the SMTP tht came with the Regen. When I changed it to an old heavy (linear?) wall wart the “whitening” immediately decreased. 2. Removed the green Regen, now running amber only. This way both the amber Regen and the optical ethernet receiver can be powered powered by a JS-2 via a split cable. Better still. Conclusion SMPS, even high quality variants, does not belong in a hifi setup. Kill all SMPS!!! You shouldn't generalize. I had listener's fatigue before the Regen and my listening fatigue disappeared when adding the Regen with the stock Meanwell SMPS! Conclusion: Don't make your conclusion everyone else's, not all system are made equal. Link to comment
Ultrarunner Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 You shouldn't generalize. I had listener's fatigue before the Regen and my listening fatigue disappeared when adding the Regen with the stock Meanwell SMPS! Conclusion: Don't make your conclusion everyone else's, not all system are made equal. I think he's correct in generalizing. SMPS need to be eliminated in any audiophile's home. I went to the trouble of replacing my land line phone's power supply with a linear power supply and also that of my AirPort Extreme router. These were in another room and I could still hear the improvement on my audio system. I'm sure you'll agree when you replace your Regen's SMPS. SonicTransporter i9 > EtherRegen (optical out) > LUMIN P1 > LUMIN Amp > YG Kipod Signature Passive speakers. Link to comment
Freann Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I agree – all systems are not equal! Nor are listening taste and preferences. But I will stick to this generalization: there is only one benefit to a SMPS – cost. Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
Elberoth Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 You shouldn't generalize. I had listener's fatigue before the Regen and my listening fatigue disappeared when adding the Regen with the stock Meanwell SMPS! Conclusion: Don't make your conclusion everyone else's, not all system are made equal. It is still perfectly possible you will hear a further improvement by going linear. Adam PC: custom Roon server with Pink Faun Ultra OCXO USB card Digital: Lampizator Horizon DAC Amp: Dan D'Agostino Momentum Stereo Speakers: Magcio M3 Link to comment
scirica Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 It is still perfectly possible you will hear a further improvement by going linear. That seems to be almost universally agreed to. I'm waiting for the mystery PSU before I spend on the linear. Would love to get rid of all my wall warts if possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
satfrat Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 That seems to be almost universally agreed to. I'm waiting for the mystery PSU before I spend on the linear. Would love to get rid of all my wall warts if possible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All linear lovers seem to have forgotten all about the Mystery Add-On that may just be what cures the SMPS's misfortunes for those who even have them. But quite frankly I have an issue with those who would preach that a linear power supply should have been added to the Regen from the start and by doing so would have at least doubled the price from $175 to $350. I'm getting stellar performance for the price paid that I could afford and I don't have the funds to double that price just for a couple percentages more performance. If you do, fine, enjoy the performance gain that I have no doubt you're enjoying. I for one am more than happy with my $175 Regen as-is and I'm sure I'm not alone in not wanting to pay more for a little. Link to comment
scirica Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 ^^^ Agree 100%! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Doak Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 All linear lovers seem to have forgotten all about the Mystery Add-On that may just be what cures the SMPS's misfortunes for those who even have them. But quite frankly I have an issue with those who would preach that a linear power supply should have been added to the Regen from the start and by doing so would have at least doubled the price from $175 to $350. I'm getting stellar performance for the price paid that I could afford and I don't have the funds to double that price just for a couple percentages more performance. If you do, fine, enjoy the performance gain that I have no doubt you're enjoying. I for one am more than happy with my $175 Regen as-is and I'm sure I'm not alone in not wanting to pay more for a little. Running my Regen from capacitor buffered battery power for a nominal investment. It too is a substantial improvement from SMPS. Doak's Audio System Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 All linear lovers seem to have forgotten all about the Mystery Add-On that may just be what cures the SMPS's misfortunes for those who even have them. I fail to see how the "Mystery" PSU, even though supplying vastly superior power to the Regen etc. can prevent AC mains supply degradation when using a consumer grade SMPS plugpack . There are good technical reasons why most consumer grade SMPS supplies (especially plug packs) cause this degradation. The effects of the injected RF/EMI back into the mains will be system dependent , and if you are using devices that are connected to mains earth by a 3 pin plug, may cause measurable degradation of the S/N of those devices. I have a copy of an article that discusses this problem if anybody is interested. I can't post it for Copyright reasons. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Jud Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 All linear lovers seem to have forgotten all about the Mystery Add-On that may just be what cures the SMPS's misfortunes for those who even have them. As Alex K. notes (and Alex C., "Superdad," has mentioned), an SMPS will put noise into the power coming from the wall unless there's something to stop/condition it both between the SMPS and the wall (e.g., some sort of power conditioning), and between the SMPS and the DAC (e.g., the mystery PSU add-on). I do agree the SMPS helped UpTone to offer the Regen for a very nice price, leaving it to customers whether they wanted to spend more on power supplies, which I think is as it should be. I personally am happy with the "El Cheapo" available on eBay for ~$80 including shipping. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
jtwrace Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 As Alex K. notes (and Alex C., "Superdad," has mentioned), an SMPS will put noise into the power coming from the wall unless there's something to stop/condition it both between the SMPS and the wall (e.g., some sort of power conditioning), and between the SMPS and the DAC (e.g., the mystery PSU add-on). I do agree the SMPS helped UpTone to offer the Regen for a very nice price, leaving it to customers whether they wanted to spend more on power supplies, which I think is as it should be. I agree and am very happy with the UpTone Audio JS-2. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
satfrat Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I agree and am very happy with the UpTone Audio JS-2. As well you should Jason,, for over 5 times the price of the Regen! LMAO Link to comment
scirica Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I do agree the SMPS helped UpTone to offer the Regen for a very nice price, leaving it to customers whether they wanted to spend more on power supplies, which I think is as it should be. I personally am happy with the "El Cheapo" available on eBay for ~$80 including shipping. I know it's probably been linked before, but can someone repost the "el cheapo" link? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
wwaldmanfan Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I fail to see how the "Mystery" PSU, even though supplying vastly superior power to the Regen etc. can prevent AC mains supply degradation when using a consumer grade SMPS plugpack .There are good technical reasons why most consumer grade SMPS supplies (especially plug packs) cause this degradation. The effects of the injected RF/EMI back into the mains will be system dependent , and if you are using devices that are connected to mains earth by a 3 pin plug, may cause measurable degradation of the S/N of those devices. I have a copy of an article that discusses this problem if anybody is interested. I can't post it for Copyright reasons. Alex Without getting too technical, are you suggesting that removing the ground pin on the MeanWell's AC cable could improve SQ? I notice that my power amp does not have a 3-pin AC connector (it does have the standard male NEMA plug, but only two prongs). Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I agree and am very happy with the UpTone Audio JS-2. I agree with you both, however I am now getting sensational results from the USB Regen when powered via a very low noise +9V Linear PSU, with an application for the Regen that wasn't previously thought of. This is the improved Signal Integrity of rips saved DIRECTLY to USB storage when using the Regen in this fashion. It also enables these files to be played via the USB memory and Regen into the USB input of a Media player such as the Oppo 103 etc. through the main System without the need for a Server or PC in the listening room. The results are VASTLY superior to the same CD that the rips were made from when played directly by the media player. Incidentally, if the Regen doesn't need to power the USB device as well , even better results over the supplied +7.5V SMPS PSU can be obtained by using it with a cheap ebay 12V Li Ion 3,000mAh rechargeable powerpack which removes the degrading effects of the AC mains supply from the equation. Just don't use the 12V Li Ion powerpack in this fashion while charging the batteries. The batteries do take a while to fully charge though. e.g. DC 12V 3000mAh Super Rechargeable Protable LI ION Battery AC DC Charger Plug | eBay The "Mystery" PSU will of course have a major advantage in that it will provide a highly stable output voltage, unlike a battery supply where the voltage will drop considerably before needing to be recharged. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Without getting too technical, are you suggesting that removing the ground pin on the MeanWell's AC cable could improve SQ? I notice that my power amp does not have a 3-pin AC connector (it does have the standard male NEMA plug, but only two prongs). No. If you email me I can reply with a copy of the article attached. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
wwaldmanfan Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I know it's probably been linked before, but can someone repost the "el cheapo" link? Just go on eBay, and type "9v regulated linear power supply" into the search bar. Link to comment
scirica Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Thanks. I see several of the same item from several vendors. Just pick any one of them? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
4est Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I would look at the Teradak and Breeze Audio(El Cheapo). There are cheaper ones, but these have worthwhile improvements for little money. 30W DC9V HiFi Linear Power Supply Regulated PSU for DAC Amp Digital Display | eBay Teradak DC30W adl GT40 9V 2A Decoding Linear Regulated Power Supply | eBay Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
Blake Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I know it's probably been linked before, but can someone repost the "el cheapo" link? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 30W DC9V HiFi Linear Power Supply Regulated PSU for DAC Amp Digital Display | eBay This seller ships very fast. As a side note, with respect to the upcoming mystery power supply add-on, it should probably be restated that Superdad confirmed the Mystery Add-On: (1) will not cure any negative sonic impacts or smps nastiness of using the Meanwell smps on your Regen, and (2) won't care about the quality of the linear power supply that feeds power to the Mystery Add-On. In other words the sound quality from a Regen + Mystery Add-On will be the same whether it is powered by a fancy/expensive Uptone JS-2 power supply or the $60 Ebay "El Cheapo" LPS. So don't waste your money buying an expensive LPS if you will be buying the Mystery Add-On. Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
satfrat Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 One more time for good measure:30W DC9V HiFi Linear Power Supply Regulated PSU for DAC Amp Digital Display | eBay Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 One more time for good measure:30W DC9V HiFi Linear Power Supply Regulated PSU for DAC Amp Digital Display | eBay As mentioned previously by a couple of members, there is nothing too special about that PSU other than the use of an R Core transformer. It appears to use something like a simple LM317T adjustable voltage regulator, and the Regen will almost certainly improve further if used in conjunction with the "Mystery" PSU. It is possible that many (but not all) members will obtain similar results when using the supplied +7.5V SMPS plug pack in conjunction with the "Mystery" PSU without spending around an additional US$80 In other words, don't rush in if you intend purchasing the "Mystery" PSU, but wait until listening reports start to come in if you can't afford the additional expenditure. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
tims Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Hi Doak That's what I'd like to try. Please give some details including amt of capacitance and how you selected the cap value and type. Thanks Running my Regen from capacitor buffered battery power for a nominal investment. It too is a substantial improvement from SMPS. Link to comment
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