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UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions


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first impression about Supra are not so positive... Maybe it need time for burn-in

 

I suspect it may need a fair amount of burn-in, but I can't find anyone declaring how much time might be needed. I ran mine for a week, but still heard serious issues.

 

Would more burn-in time help, or is that it ?

 

(I can't test for a while yet due to system maintenence)

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But you did find any improvement after one week nevertheless? I just find out, that in my system Supra(+Regen) sounds almost the same as Supra(no Regen) in a first day of usage.

 

Yes, after a week of burn-in (Inet radio background) there was an improvement. But not enough. Then I couldn't wait anymore and added the Regen into the mix. I think there way have been an improvement after another week, but not sure what was contributing what. But I could still detect a kind of shrieky/smeared glaze on (rising) vocals, which was my initial negative perception of the Supra, only worse.

 

I am waiting to get my speakers back in place and my original USB cable back from a friend, before continuing on this saga :(

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  • 4 weeks later...
... music I want to listen to with the Regen to test its capabilities ... Maybe just some categories of music ... that the Regen handles well.

 

I would suggest music that has a number of different instruments, as I found the Regen to let me effortlessly tell one from another, as each one became so clearly 'itself'.

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... For me, "digititis" is an unnatural sense of tension in the sound..... glassy, hard, one dimensional, etc. Digititis infected notes are like hard glass discs, whereas natural analog sounding notes are like rubber squash balls, in that the notes have a 3-D character with a sense of give or squishiness to the notes. I'm sure that makes zero sense, but its how I hear things... even more like a squash ball...

 

Blake,

 

I find it interesting that you are using terms from the tactile senses to try and describe your perception of SQ. I get the relationships of the analogies, but sound, of course, has no physical density :)

 

Perhaps the ear traces the outline/envelope of a sound and can detect the [hardness, crispness, softness, squishiness] of that 'shape' , compared to previous experiences ?

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The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right?

Sounds like theoretical 'Perfect Sound Forever" to me and nothing what-so-ever to do with actual listening perceptions, observations, and impressions of the UpTone Regen device !

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C.A. member Alfe recently posted this

Alfe is a highly experienced R&D guy, and he even designed the internal LG GGW H20L BR writer that I use for ripping my CDs.

My reports about Rips using different PSU's are well documented here in C.A. , and were verified in HiFiCritic Vol.6 No.1 as sounding different, despite having identical checksums, after a series of 6 3 minute Blind A/B/A/ listening sessions.

 

Alex

 

Gentlemen,

 

Definitely way off topic ! Time for PM's, or a new thread. OK ?

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  • 2 weeks later...
ran a few tests already:

 

1) Baseline: system as is w/o regen and mw smps unplugged

2) Smps plugged in powering the regen but regen not in use: stage shrinks, is flatter, less 3D and there's a hard to describe glare over the music that makes you want to just turn the system off. Sibilance in recordings normally reasonably bearable turns downright nasty.

3) Smps plugged in and regen connected: the effects of the smps are diminished, its a good step up from 2) but 1) is the clear winner.

 

 

Where is the mw smps located, in relation to the Regen and other equipment ?

 

How is the PS cable routed, in relation to other wiring ?

 

How is the mw smps AC cable plugged, in relation to your other gears AC cords n?

 

 

Perhaps those answers might point to part of your problem.

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  • 3 weeks later...
The Blue Dragon brought my first realization that digital signals are just as vulnerable, if not more so, as analog signals. The USB Regen will make believers out of everyone who hears it.

 

I first noticed differences in Coax Digital cables for my SPDIF connection from sound card to DAC. 3 subtley different sounds with three cables. But that didn't register too deeply, until the switch from a generic USB cable to a bottom-of-the line Audioquest resulted in the perverbial 'Night and Day' difference. My, my, my !! :)

 

I'm afraid some will refuse to listen to a Regen for dogmatic reasons. TS, their loss :)

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I guess John and Alex were designing prototypes of regen with Supra as a cable to run and in result it is a perfect fit.

 

A,

 

John S designed the Regen for the 90ohm USB cable specification, not for the Supra. I'm not sure when they actually got around to trying one out.

 

From what I understand, the Swedish company Supra makes lots of cables, and it not thought of as a 'audiophile' brand in Europe, perhaps more like the Belkin lne here in the US.

 

But the Supra USB cables are built to the proper spec of 90ohms impedence, so that may be the secret :)

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I'm glad to hear the Regen is making a difference in front of such esteemed converters as the Berkeley. And glad to read that at least one earlier poster said it improved the sound in front of his AR-T Legato, which I also own. Looking forward to receiving my Amber (early August it looks like) and will post my impressions thereafter.

 

From all I've read while following the Regen threads, what DAC is used downstream is immaterial. With the exception of only a couple of products, the DAC behind the Regen makes no difference to the SQ contribution of that little accessory. Each DAC has its own SQ signature, which is the base level, then the Regen seems to add to that base level. through I suppose it would be possible for a DAC with very poor SQ to mask Regen improvements. But DACs of that low quality are probably few and far between in the group of CA audiophiles reporting on their Regen SQ experiences :)

 

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of interactions between the sound of a downstream DAC, and that of the Regen. Of course the same can not be said of interactions between, USB sources/cards, USB cables and associated power supplies :)

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This is a stunning statement "what DAC is used downstream is immaterial ". I'm truly intrigue. Can the SQ performance of inexpensive DACs be brought up close to high end DACs by this little UpTone Audio Regen?

 

toasty,

 

I said that I thought poor SQ DACs would only detract from the Regen's contribution (masking), as well as still having their own intrinsic poor performance. I have no data on this specifically, but the other things I've gleaned from the rich vein of posts here in CA :)

 

I made an educated guess, and Jud had a more optimistic guess. We'll just have to keep an eye out for those kind of reports to show up.

 

But, I have little chance of identifying a 'good' versus a 'poor' DAC. There are just too damn many of them. No way will I waste my time trying to keep track of a product category that spawns new models, like mushrooms. I feel the same abut box speakers, only worse :) Of course, I do know a fair number of the popular and hi-end stuff.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Was the dismissive "moving on" bit REALLY necessary ?

The "but please feel free to do so" indicated your displeasure quite adequately !

 

Alex, Yes, necessary ! You are way off topic. Take it to PM, start your own thread, or just move on, thank you.

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  • 2 weeks later...
... I will not be able to use the solid adapter between the REGEN and my DAC (Benchmark DAC2 HGC).

 

I have the exact same DAC, and know the issue. I solved the problem with a slightly longer adapter I found on eBay: Description: 1pc,GOLD USB 2.0 A Male to B Male A-B Printer Adapter Converter , Item# 400727442908 ($1.49 ea.)

 

Get one (or two, they're cheap!) of those and trim off the bulging side next to the IEC plug. I used a flush cutter, but a kitchen knife would work too on the soft, rubbery, coating. That will result in plenty of clearance for the Regen !

 

Later you can compare the SQ of the adapter vs. your new 6" JCAT cable, and I'll bet you prefer the adapter :)

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... i am not sure that simple adapter could deteoriate benefits of good powercord , but i could be wrong...

any thoughts ?

 

 

tx,

 

From my following of the various Regen threads, most experiments of cables (of varying lengths) in place of a short, 'hard', adapter, fell short in the SQ dept.

 

One thing I have noticed about the hard adapters, is that they have widely spaced wires connecting the pins between the two connectors. I suspect that that may have a positive effect on the impedance of the signal path through the device.

 

OTOH, any cable; short, long, cheap, or esoteric, will shove the 4 USB conductors close together, potentially impacting the impedance of the cable (even with twists, shields, etc.). I don't know the exact effect, but remember that one of the goals of the Regen is to control the impedence between itself and the downstream DAC to as close to the 90 ohm USB spec as possible to keep the SI (Signal Integrity) high.

 

I think experimentation with cables between the Regen and DAC is fine, but I would advise that you always use the hard adapter as a control before/after SQ tests.

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... to go with the solid adapter I would have to move the entire rack a little further from the wall, which won't be happening anytime soon. I did my initial listening with the solid adapter (DAC half hanging forward on the shelf) and am not sure I could consistently A/B the difference. But then I didn't hear near as much difference when I added the Regen as I did when I removed it a couple of weeks later... I guess I need to use the hard connector for a couple of weeks ...

 

 

I think you need to get one of those right angle USB adapters, that should take care of your space problem and let you listen longer for the SQ advantage.

 

There is probably a link in one of these Regen threads, or just Google for them...

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Sounds like a very positive indicator of how the 6-inch JCAT USB I ordered will work between the Regen and my dac...

 

Sounds more like wishful thinking to me. Just because a cable is short is no indication of it's SQ. Let's wait until it is properly heard, before celebrating OK ?

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This looks like a very interesting hard adapter if I am seeing things clearly in the image. Can you answer me this - are the two USB ends rotated 90 degrees from each other around the axis of the cable?

That is, if the flat USB end is vertical is the D shaped end forming an n or u?

If so, that could be a hard connector solution that could work for me as the Regen would be oriented vertically and not conflict with other cables.

 

HM,

 

The adapter I used has the exact same physical configuration as the one supplied with the Regen (just longer). I suppose that would make the "D shaped" 'B' plug, look like an 'n', but that puts the 'A' plug, and the Regen, in a horizontal orientation. That is, unless your DAC's USB 'B' socket is in a different orientation then my Benchmark DAC2 (which I could say 'points up').

 

Does that answer your question, or further confuse the issue ? :)

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If there were a hard connector that had one end rotated 90 degrees through the axis of the cable, then it would solve the problem for a great number of people who can't use the supplied hard connector.

 

Like Alex (Superdad), I've looked long and hard for adapters to use in tight situations. The best I can come up with is to use the original UTA hard adapter and add a 90 degree, 'A' female to 'A' male adapter, which would get the Regen behind, and above, the DAC's USB socket, out of the way of most cable interference. Except for the width of the original adapter, which is probably still a serious issue with big-ass IEC plugs :(

 

There are 90 degree 'B' adapters, but they all bend the wrong way, obscuring other DAC ports, so no joy...

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And your point is ??

 

The main problem is the 'B' connection at the DAC, where space can be a problem. You show a 'A' adapter. Yeah, it is cool that it twists around, but the 'ordinary' 90 degree 'A' adapter bends in a way that is complimentary if used with the UTA supplied 'A' to 'B' device.

 

What bothers me about the linked swivel adapter, is that the 4 internal wires have to be squished together (like in a cable) to pass through the swiveling mechanism. My working hypothesis is that the wide spacing of the wires inside the hard adapters (as opposed to close spacing inside a cable) contributes to its impedance and SQ.

 

So, unless John Swenson, or a damn good argument, disabuses me of that notion, I'll continue to view the adapter-vs-cable issue in that light :)

 

And, yes, I do notice some reports of various cables beating adapters, but I don't see that as overwhelming yet. We need more data.

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My point was to provide a possible solution for you. Sorry you couldn't figure that out for yourself and it's too bad it's not to your liking. Maybe it'll help someone else out who's in a similar situation as yourself.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come off so crabby :(

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... the German made AQVOX 4.7" USB cable was favored over the hard adapter but it cost nearly as much as the Regen at approximately $150.

 

OMG ! That's 100x my $1.49 adapter (gold plated, clears the IEC plug, too).

 

And "was favored" by who ? where ? I haven't seen any reliable reports here on CA yet. I suppose we shall see, as this expensive little experiment plays out :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
One LPS (El Cheapo), one SMPS, the (newer) iPower rather than the (older) iUSB Power. There's some old MIT Z-stuff in there (Z-1, Z-2, Z-Cords) to help tame anything going back into the wall or the rest of the system.

 

Jud, Why not power both of your Regens with the El Cheapo ?

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