UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[Duke40]

The Vaunix hub does NOT provide any isolation, it is just a normal hub, with a really good power supply. My guess is that the benefits come from the power supply, because they are aiming at a very robust supply (1A per port), they naturally wind up with low impedance to the hub chip. It may not be highly optimized PDN, but it is highly likely it is much better than most hubs.

 

John S.

 

John, Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it.

[Evo1668]

My Regen arrived today - after picking it up from the local sorting office and pay the import tax, and wait for it....handling charge £8 for an A5 sized box......Anyway that is in the past now....I now have the future music to listen forward to.

 

Ok, I would not vehemently disagree with any of the previous posts on the sound improvements brought along by the Regen, I don't think I have played a track in the first 3 hours and not noticed something new in the mix. I know expectation bias is always possibly in with our thoughts buying something new. Maybe I can write a more in depth view after a few weeks listening. I sure as hell won't have time for the forum;)

 

To my ears, the Regen adds something very very positive to my listening experience - Removes a layer of noise/grunge not perceived before, tiny overlooked details in some music become apparent, instruments now heard where they did not exist in the mix before (I am damn sure they did, but I was just not hearing them in my system before). Example Joni Mitchel - Both Sides Now - DVD Audio rip. The title track - I have never heard the really quiet snare drum playing throughout most of the track, it's there in the mix, but lost before the grunge is cleared away listening with the Regen.....

 

Ok one of the main things I was going to report back on was around cables, especially the Total Dac D1 that I use......Sorry I had to go and listen to Supertramp - School (the little girl screaming 1:45 into the track - my god she does scream doesn't she?)...Anyway, as I was saying. I listened for around an hour using the Regen and my trusty D1 cable. Ok I think from what Alex has said on these Regen pages, cables should not make such a difference with the USB. (Sorry Alex, they do! well let me explain in my circumstance)

 

I swapped out the D1 and replaced it with an AQ Cinnamon cable - my immediate observations was "oh no the D1 cable is no more"....as soon as the track got going though (Baltimore - Lianne La Havas - Round Nina album) the AQ sounded like it was trying just a bit too hard....swapped back to the D1 and the calm, grip structure, depth was all back in spades - the very reason I like D1. it just makes my digital system very musical indeed, with a tiny side order of analogue....

 

A side observation on the Regen after a very short time you recognise its sonic signature - music sounds louder, for the same given volume, although I know it isn't. Instruments are clearer. Regardless of volume level there is more dynamics to the tune being played. It allows you to listen into the musical mix, when things get busy you can still hear the individual instrument contribution where things may have got out of focus before and instruments blended together more. I am talking tiny degrees here, but very very noticeable.

 

Hence to close off without rabbiting on too much.....The Regen is staying put, and the D1 was always going to be a keeper as they both contribute to the party significantly in my system

[Superdad]

The Vaunix hub does NOT provide any isolation, it is just a normal hub, with a really good power supply.

 

Wow, $199 for an industrial USB hub. Makes the REGEN seem a bargain.

 

Thanks everyone for the great reviews. Quite overwhelming and very gratifying to both John and me.

 

Alan, I don't think John or I ever said that USB cables would no longer make much difference when using the REGEN. I still hear a nice difference between my Supra cable and a Belkin Pro (not the worst cable in the world BTW), and a cable I have from a well-known firm that sounded awful and screechy before still rubs me the wrong way with the REGEN.

 

As John postulated in his long dissertation here the other day, the REGEN itself is susceptible to signal integrity issues and will generate its own internal "packet noise" perturbations based on that. So what comes before (cables, computer, etc.) does still matter a bit--but now to the REGEN and not the DAC.

 

I guess that does beg the question of: if you put a REGEN at both ends (directly into the computer's USB port by putting the male/male adaptor on the REGEN's input side), would the USB cable in between THEN not make a difference? If I did not have such a head cold right now I'd try that today.

 

It also speaks to the usage of the Corning optical USB.

While the Corning does provide true isolation of the data lines, it powers its optical receiver/USB hub/PHY (that's what's in the output end getting hot) with bus power from the computer. John suggested that the way to get the very best out of the Corning would be to cut in and grab the power wires--probably a few inches from the output end--and power its circuit with a separate, cleaner supply. Does not have to be anything fancy.

Only thing is, there is speculation that the Corning uses a buck/boost DC converter in the send end to send 12V down the cable (and then another to drop it down to 5V so it can offer a tiny bit of VBUS current at its output--presumably for handshake, etc.).

 

 

FYi, although I was able to bump the second run of REGENs up to 150 units, as of this morning about half of those are already pre-sold. Hard to believe I might have to order up a third run before part for the second one even arrive. Parts will be here by May 18th, but I leave on a week's vacation (of sorts) with my family on the 20th--back in the office on the 28th. At that point it will be another mad rush to get as many orders processed and shipped from Friday the 29th to Wednesday, June 3rd. I'm not going to commit to shipping more than about 30-40 units per day, and orders will be filled in the order they came in.

 

Cheers,

ALEX

[saint]

Received my REGEN a few days ago and have had several sessions listening to familiar tracks. The REGEN is connected to the Cosecant with the solid adapter and to the Mac Mini (A+) with a Locus Design Group Nucleus.

 

Empty Hearts, Alison Krauss (16/44.1 CD) - Heard greater distinction between the vocals and instruments. This track was more 3D with not just greater soundstage depth but space around the individual musicians - holographic.

 

Mujaka, The Latin Jazz Trio (24/96 iTrax) - Shaker and cymbals are more vivid without being bright or shimmery - strikingly real / lifelike. The sound is more complete, more finished.

 

Blue Railroad Train, Jorma Kaukonen (16/44.1 CD) - Very dynamic track, each instrument was distinct and in focus. The guitar is clearly heard from the dobro. The rim shots are crisp and snap at even low volumes.

 

All Of You, The Modern Jazz Quartet (16/44.1 CD) - The triangle in the intro is so much more pure, not the annoying ringing and congestion you get with most recordings of this instrument.

 

Lush Life, John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman (16/44.1 CD) - This track has lots of room information bordering on too much. Second listening session notes indicated it sounded like the booth had been tamed a little. A little less echo and a little more sense of the space the musicians were in.

 

Or Not To Be, Patricia Barber (16/44.1 CD) - Haunting piano on this track that now has a much more natural sounding decay - simply beautiful.

 

Luxury Liner, Albert Lee (24/96 iTrax) - Another great iTrax download. More engaging, notes extolled the greater layering of sound. Albert’s picking is sharper with greater distinction between notes.

 

Oh What A Night For Love, Mel Torme (16/44.1) - The REGEN helped to render Mel’s voice in an even smoother and warmer manner. This was interesting; it was like the lushness of a Mullard with the little bit better focus of an Amperex.

 

Hopefully some of these impressions and subjective observations will make sense to folks. It is not easy to describe what we hear but the overall listening experience has definitely been enhanced.

 

Congrats to Alex & John - value in this expensive hobby!

 

Enough writing, wonder what Red Clay will sound like?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Got mine yesterday and have been using it for a few hours hooked up to a Nuforce Icon HD Dac (got rca right angle adaptors to allow space for the regen) . The improvement is very palpable, as noted by others above.

 

Been going through my extensive Duke Ellington collection and enjoying it more than ever. So a big thanks to Alex and John!

[rickca]

It's really important to me for instruments to have a realistic tone, and this is where the REGEN is impressive. If you play an instrument, just listen to some pieces you've played yourself. It's very convincing.

 

I started with some Debussy played by Bavouzet. This is material where the touch of the pianist is everything. Debussy wants you to hear raindrops. The focus and clarity of the REGEN just works perfectly here.

 

Next I tried some Liszt played by Jorge Bolet. Deep rumbling bass passages sounded far less confused with the REGEN, and the treble shimmered beautifully. Liszt loves the extreme octaves.

 

I'm now listening to a Dvorak cello concerto performed by Rostropovich. When the tone of the instruments is right, things like improved instrument separation just come along for the ride. At first I thought my system sounded somehow restrained with the REGEN. Actually, it just wasn't as smeared.

 

I tried all this on my nearfield system because I thought I'd have to listen carefully to get what the REGEN was doing. It wasn't necessary. REGEN is kind of immediately likeable.

 

Oh yeah ... this was with the supplied Mean Well PS and a $50 StraightWire USB cable. I guess it gets even better with a JS-2 or a fancier cable.

 

I think the REGEN lets you better evaluate what the rest of your gear is doing for you.

[hyoboy24]

Has anyone tried to place an ifi iPurifier or Aubisque USB Filter in between the USB cable and the Regen? Is there any positive/negative impact on the sound?

[jtwrace]

Has anyone tried to place an ifi iPurifier or Aubisque USB Filter in between the USB cable and the Regen? Is there any positive/negative impact on the sound?

 

It's not recommended.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

I replaced a Supra by a Belkin. Can't say I can't hear differences and the Supra was beefier, smoother. However I preferred the Belkin, more vivid and... certified. I have a real hard time understanding how one can spend for a non certified usb cable. I also wonder how a cable has influence on the sound, wondered if a more jittery signal triggers correction circuits in the DACs that are conceived to default to giving a gentler sound (as delirious as it is if it does not describe any real process, it is still a description of my distrust of non certified usb cable). This being said, I'd be interested in seeing a Uptone optical usb cable, and, since 3m would probably satisfy most of us, prices could even be competitive : pay less for cable length, more for top hubs inside. And that don't fail after a few days of service... Am I the only one to wish for that ?

Wow, $199 for an industrial USB hub. Makes the REGEN seem a bargain.

 

Thanks everyone for the great reviews. Quite overwhelming and very gratifying to both John and me.

 

Alan, I don't think John or I ever said that USB cables would no longer make much difference when using the REGEN. I still hear a nice difference between my Supra cable and a Belkin Pro (not the worst cable in the world BTW), and a cable I have from a well-known firm that sounded awful and screechy before still rubs me the wrong way with the REGEN.

 

As John postulated in his long dissertation here the other day, the REGEN itself is susceptible to signal integrity issues and will generate its own internal "packet noise" perturbations based on that. So what comes before (cables, computer, etc.) does still matter a bit--but now to the REGEN and not the DAC.

 

I guess that does beg the question of: if you put a REGEN at both ends (directly into the computer's USB port by putting the male/male adaptor on the REGEN's input side), would the USB cable in between THEN not make a difference? If I did not have such a head cold right now I'd try that today.

 

It also speaks to the usage of the Corning optical USB.

While the Corning does provide true isolation of the data lines, it powers its optical receiver/USB hub/PHY (that's what's in the output end getting hot) with bus power from the computer. John suggested that the way to get the very best out of the Corning would be to cut in and grab the power wires--probably a few inches from the output end--and power its circuit with a separate, cleaner supply. Does not have to be anything fancy.

Only thing is, there is speculation that the Corning uses a buck/boost DC converter in the send end to send 12V down the cable (and then another to drop it down to 5V so it can offer a tiny bit of VBUS current at its output--presumably for handshake, etc.).

 

 

FYi, although I was able to bump the second run of REGENs up to 150 units, as of this morning about half of those are already pre-sold. Hard to believe I might have to order up a third run before part for the second one even arrive. Parts will be here by May 18th, but I leave on a week's vacation (of sorts) with my family on the 20th--back in the office on the 28th. At that point it will be another mad rush to get as many orders processed and shipped from Friday the 29th to Wednesday, June 3rd. I'm not going to commit to shipping more than about 30-40 units per day, and orders will be filled in the order they came in.

 

Cheers,

ALEX

[Freann]

Up and playing, powered by the JS-2.

 

It does what I hoped it would do. The Regen removes a certain glare or hardness in the upper mids. It unveils more color, dimensionality and texture.

 

In my experience it’s the lack of this “glare” I react to when I hear a really good vinyl rig. That magic you feel but can’t put into words? That flow of music and the immediate emotional connection? The Regen does that.

 

Without a doubt essential. A landmark product even?

 

 

 

 

Setup

Mac Mini i7, SD card running 10.10.3 and CAD script, powered by a JS-2. Ethernet-fiber converter and Regen also powered by the JS-2. WireWorld Platinum Starlight USB cable. Ayre QB-9 DSD dac.

Audio Matiere tube preamp, Atma-sphere M60 monoblocks and Raidho X-Monitor LE speakers.

[Superdad]

This being said, I'd be interested in seeing a Uptone optical usb cable, and, since 3m would probably satisfy most of us, prices could even be competitive : pay less for cable length, more for top hubs inside. And that don't fail after a few days of service... Am I the only one to wish for that ?

 

Funny you should mention that. The idea has been on my mind all week (since John suggested that the Corning would provide truer isolation if its receiving end had separate power instead of the computer VBUS), and I plan to discuss it on our call today. Have no idea about the availability or quality of the optical tranciever chips required to do such a piece the "good way." And then, what does it take to properly terminate the glass fibre?

 

So while I'd love to offer a two-piece optical solution (in cases the size of REGEN or maybe even smaller), I make no promises about it being possible for us. And Le Concombre, you have ruined the element of surprise!

[Superdad]

Without a doubt essential. A landmark product even?

 

Wow Fredrick, that's a wonderful endorsement, thanks.

 

I'll be honest with everyone (you know I always am):

My delight in all these rave reviews--about the positive effect of the REGEN--is split 50/50 between the fast and steady sales it is generating, and just knowing that all of you are enjoying your music systems so much more with this affordable device.

The combination of the two is what every dedicated audio entrepreneur lives for.

 

So thanks once again for your suppot and enthusiasm. Of course my deepest thanks always goes to the brilliant John Swenson. His inspired designs are fuel for all this.

I am counting on the success of the JS-2 and REGEN to provide the capital funding needed for a much more ambitious and groundbreaking project (cough, DAC, cough) we have been sketching out together for over two years (good thing we've had the time because it has changed a lot on paper as the thinking has evolved).

 

It's both an exciting and exhausting time for my small firm in transition. I'm already daydreaming about having an administrative assistant to help keep up.

We'll see where all this leads...

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[jtwrace]

Funny you should mention that. The idea has been on my mind all week (since John suggested that the Corning would provide truer isolation if its receiving end had separate power instead of the computer VBUS), and I plan to discuss it on our call today. Have no idea about the availability or quality of the optical tranciever chips required to do such a piece the "good way." And then, what does it take to properly terminate the glass fibre?

 

So while I'd love to offer a two-piece optical solution (in cases the size of REGEN or maybe even smaller), I make no promises about it being possible for us. And Le Concombre, you have ruined the element of surprise!

 

I'll send you an email later. You would be perfect to take over the communication I've been having about getting them made.

[rickca]

Has anyone compared the REGEN with a SOtM or JCAT card?

[tboooe]

Has anyone compared the REGEN with a SOtM or JCAT card?

I was actually thinking if the Regen eliminates the need for these audiophile usb cards or vice versa? Or if used in conjunction with one another there is further improvement?

[AnotherSpin]

I'd be interested in seeing a Uptone optical usb cable, and, since 3m would probably satisfy most of us, prices could even be competitive : pay less for cable length, more for top hubs inside. And that don't fail after a few days of service... Am I the only one to wish for that ?

After trying Corning optical usb cable (hope we will get working replacement sooner or later) I am with you on this idea.

[HenSch]

Absolutely true, my dreams about the perfect audio USB connection went this direction as well. The Corning cable is surely not at the top end of what is possible designwise. But still it is delivering quite an improvement over even high-end USB cables.

[Freann]

I think/hope that this little device will show that computer audio is not just about the latest dac chip and some generic bits stuffed in shiny box. The term “packet noice” will probably crop up in all sorts of places… Hence landmark product.

[JohnSwenson]

I was actually thinking if the Regen eliminates the need for these audiophile usb cards or vice versa? Or if used in conjunction with one another there is further improvement?

 

First let me say I have not actually tried this, so it is just guesswork, but my gut feeling is that a regen fed by a good cable from a well optimized computer should be on par or better than the same computer with one of the good cards plus the same cable.

 

But adding the good card in front of the regen will improve things even more. Not a huge amount, but it will be there. So if you already have such a card, go ahead and try it with the regen, it will probably sound better than the computers built-in USB port. If you don't already have one, you are going to have to decide whether it is worth it.

 

John S.

[pl_svn]

(cough, DAC, cough)

 

[AlainGr]

I got my Regen yesterday and I tried it on my NOS1. It was a lot of trouble, since the position of the NOS1 USB port crosses the analog ICs, but I finally settled for the rigid adapter plus a 90 degrees adaptor. It looks kind of weird, but...

 

Focus, details, air, tone, presence, presence, presence... Have I said "presence" ? The small glare that I can hear from time to time is gone.

 

But I have to specify that my NOS1 is not a NOS1"a". I am not sure it would make such a difference, as I suspect that the Regen and the improved USB port from the NOS1a would be redundant.

 

I have been switching between a Clairixa and a Clearlink plus USB cable. The Clairixa has a natural sound like the Clearlink but there are differences that favour the Clairixa. A little more presence and a deeper sense of bass (though still tight).

 

Now that the Regen is at a place I was not really anticipating (it was for another dac), I need to find a way to make the connection less "dangerous".

 

It has not happened for quite a while, but when I suddenly feel the crave to listen to music I already know and like, that means something to me...

[wwaldmanfan]

I got my Regen yesterday and I tried it on my NOS1. It was a lot of trouble, since the position of the NOS1 USB port crosses the analog ICs, but I finally settled for the rigid adapter plus a 90 degrees adaptor. It looks kind of weird, but...

[snip]

Now that the Regen is at a place I was not really anticipating (it was for another dac), I need to find a way to make the connection less "dangerous".

 

What's so terrible about using the little 6" USB cable that Alex supplies in place of the rigid adapter?

[AlainGr]

I have tried it, but there is some kind of "twisting" effect that prevents a good contact with the USB port... I have to play with it before the system would see the dac and this raised a concern...

 

The Phasure NOS1 is designed with an "H" architecture and the ICs are leaving the horizontal bar of the "H", while the USB port is located at the left branch of this same "H", preventing the Regen from plugging without a torsion...

 

My conclusion after all the "sparage" I did is that for the moment, I need to think about something else, even if the connection seems to hold...

[BobSherman]

First let me say I have not actually tried this, so it is just guesswork, but my gut feeling is that a regen fed by a good cable from a well optimized computer should be on par or better than the same computer with one of the good cards plus the same cable.

 

But adding the good card in front of the regen will improve things even more. Not a huge amount, but it will be there. So if you already have such a card, go ahead and try it with the regen, it will probably sound better than the computers built-in USB port. If you don't already have one, you are going to have to decide whether it is worth it.

 

John S.

 

Hi John,

 

What you and Alex have done is a great thing! You have allowed all the people that own Macs or other systems such as notebooks that cannot use an internal USB card to enjoy the same improvements that many of us have had for a while. The improvements in sound that everybody is talking about are so similar to what I had when I first started using Paul Pang's USB cards. There is such an improvement over the motherboard USB, I could never go back to using an onboard USB port again. You guys have now given this to everybody. I'm looking forward to getting a Regen down the road and using it with my systems. I can only see the sound quality getting better by using the Regen. Anybody who has not ordered one yet, does not know what they're missing, as improving the USB signal really makes a major difference in sound quality in my opinion.

 

Best regards

Bob

[Duke40]

I guess that does beg the question of: if you put a REGEN at both ends (directly into the computer's USB port by putting the male/male adaptor on the REGEN's input side), would the USB cable in between THEN not make a difference? If I did not have such a head cold right now I'd try that today.

 

Alex, I would be interested in your thoughts on this (Regen at both ends) when you recover from your head cold.