Sony NW-ZX2 - What are people's views?

[mfalcon]

The functionality of this device sounds great and it seems it might meet multiple needs I have.

What kind of cable does the Walkman port use? Can you go USB or SPDIF into a Dac?

 

Thanks for answering!

[miguelito]

The functionality of this device sounds great and it seems it might meet multiple needs I have.

What kind of cable does the Walkman port use? Can you go USB or SPDIF into a Dac?

Port is the Walkman port (whatever that is). This means you need a special USB cable to connect it to the computer and/or charge the device. However, at least these cables can be had for cheap on Amazon. I bought 4 for next to nothing and they are just fine.

 

Digital out is only over USB as far as I can tell. There's a special cable for this. There's also a cradle that you can get which will allow both charging and USB host mode (the simple cable will not allow charging).

 

From a functionality standpoint - specifically what's important to me - this is a perfect device. Namely:

 

Pros:

1- Playback of all high res formats I own

2- Perfect match for my Noble K10's - really stunning sound quality

3- 128gb internal + microSD card slot (up to another 128gb)

4- Fairly quick cataloguing of music once a new microSD card is inserted

5- DLNA playback

6- TIDAL, Spotify, TuneIn - plays anything there's an app for

7- Remote apps - eg SONOS

8- Bluetooth streaming - in case you need it - I use it at times

9- Long battery life

10- Super premium fit and finish

 

Cons:

1- Specialized connector for charging (at least no memoryStick! can you imagine?)

2- A bit bulky & heavy

3- Nice leather case is extra (comes with a simple one that isn't very nice)

[mfalcon]

Miguelito,

Thanks for all this info, you are such an excellent resource around here.

Mike

[miguelito]

Miguelito,

Thanks for all this info, you are such an excellent resource around here.

Mike

Np! Thx!

[miguelito]

What kind of cable does the Walkman port use? Can you go USB or SPDIF into a Dac?

I'll be damned... There is a line out in the Walkman port:

 

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L5-Line-Cable-Walkman/dp/B003UCI2CI/ref=pd_sim_cps_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0BGWWPHMJVVGWSVFPWJH

 

And here's the USB cable I mentioned:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FF086HE/ref=pd_luc_rh_sim_02_02_t_img_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mfalcon]

Even cooler. This device seems so cool, I've got it on my list now.

[Rexp]

I'll be damned... There is a line out in the Walkman port:

 

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L5-Line-Cable-Walkman/dp/B003UCI2CI/ref=pd_sim_cps_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0BGWWPHMJVVGWSVFPWJH

 

And here's the USB cable I mentioned:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FF086HE/ref=pd_luc_rh_sim_02_02_t_img_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yes there is but you won't try it coz your DAC cost 25000 Dollars ..lol

[miguelito]

Yes there is but you won't try it coz your DAC cost 25000 Dollars ..lol

 

Oh dear lord... You guys... Some things I care to try, some things I just don't... Time is limited and I make my choices... Enough time wasted on this conversation.

[Rexp]

Oh dear lord... You guys... Some things I care to try, some things I just don't... Time is limited and I make my choices... Enough time wasted on this conversation.

Haha just pulling your leg, your input is much appreciated

[jcbenten]

IIRC, Steve Rochlin mentioned somewhere that he was able to get DSD out, albeit I don't think it was specifically with the PHA-3.

 

 

My assumption is that the volume control is done digitally in the ZX2 hence the need for PCM.

 

 

If I really need a PHA-3 for the ZX2 to sound ok, then it is not worth it to me. I presume that the ZX2 might need an amp if you wanted to drive inefficient cans. But with my Noble K10's I get plenty of juice - setting the volume 1/3 of the way is very loud already.

 

I will have to search for the Rochlin method. I picked up my ZX2 and it sounds fabulous...even with only 10 hours. I went through various excercises to play DSD direct and no luck. The PHA3 sounds slightly better when playing (converted) DSD. I used Dire Straits' Brother in Arms and the PHA3 gives a bit more bass and a slightly more ethereal sound. Very nice. The ZX2 on its own is pretty damn good. I have not compared it to my ZX1 yet but David Bowie Live is better on the ZX2. The sax that permeates the recording very 3D sounding to me. Just great.

 

I do not know the tech where a digital volume requires conversion to PCM.

 

I am using my Westone W40s and am thinking of going for one of the Noble mid-grade offerings. Cannot quite get myself to wait so long for the 10s. But really my Westones sound great. I think I just need to get the 200 hours on the ZX2.

 

chris

[miguelito]

I do not know the tech where a digital volume requires conversion to PCM.

You cannot digitally volume control a DSD stream. This stream is basically made of 1's and 0's whereby a 1 means "signal goes up" and a 0 "signal goes down". The sound wave is the integral, which effectively can be achieved with a simple low pass. The problem is that how far a signal goes up is encoded in the time domain rather than in a sample as in PCM. So there's no way to lower the volume bc you'd have to say something like "every 10 1's make one a 0" and that would have tons of spectral effects.

 

So what people have done to control volume in DSD in mixing consoles (where controlling volume is obviously needed) is:

a- Convert to PCM - once in PCM it is a piece of cake

b- Subdivide the 1 into more bits - say make a 1 be n bits high, so the amount of gain when it's a 1 can be reduced in steps of 1/2^(n-1)

 

'a' is fairly easy to do, 'b' I don't think is easy.

[jcbenten]

You cannot digitally volume control a DSD stream. This stream is basically made of 1's and 0's whereby a 1 means "signal goes up" and a 0 "signal goes down". The sound wave is the integral, which effectively can be achieved with a simple low pass. The problem is that how far a signal goes up is encoded in the time domain rather than in a sample as in PCM. So there's no way to lower the volume bc you'd have to say something like "every 10 1's make one a 0" and that would have tons of spectral effects.

 

So what people have done to control volume in DSD in mixing consoles (where controlling volume is obviously needed) is:

a- Convert to PCM - once in PCM it is a piece of cake

b- Subdivide the 1 into more bits - say make a 1 be n bits high, so the amount of gain when it's a 1 can be reduced in steps of 1/2^(n-1)

 

'a' is fairly easy to do, 'b' I don't think is easy.

 

Thank you for the explanation. But I think i am not understanding certain aspects. On DSD only dacs (with amps and speakers) how is the volume controlled? Why would the ZX2 & PHA3 be different?

 

Sony manipulated Android to prevent USB Host Mode. I have no trouble sending DSD files from my Droid Turbo to my PHA3 as DSD.

 

On the ZX2 I tried a USB Host Mode app and it can see the PHA3 but no DSD transfer with the Sony media player. I cannot get USB Player Pro to load properly (works on the Droid Turbo). Onkyo HD player also converts to PCM.

 

I am not mad at Sony...the ZX2 sounds great... but befuddled by the castration.

 

CHRIS

[One and a half]

If the ZX2 behaves the same as the Xperia X2/X3 phones, DSD is bitstreamed as an option you can set, and the volume cannot be controlled by the phone only the downstream DAC if it's capable of adjusting the volume. If the DAC cannot, the volume control is performed by pre-amp or HP amp in the analog domain.

 

If you don't connect a DAC at all, the music plays from the HP jack, so there needs to be either DSD to PCM conversion, or the DAC in the ZX2 is native and converts. I suspect the latter since the PHA-2 & 3 have native DSD capability, why not do the same with the ZX2 and not re-invent the wheel.

[miguelito]

Thank you for the explanation. But I think i am not understanding certain aspects. On DSD only dacs (with amps and speakers) how is the volume controlled? Why would the ZX2 & PHA3 be different?

Aside from the complex "overbitting" of each DSD 1 or 0, the only way to control volume digitally is to convert to PCM first. The other way is to control it in the analog domain after the DAC itself.

 

I've always wondered if it would be possible to control how much voltage gain a 1 or voltage drop a 0 accounts for - which would sort of be an analog/digital mix. I don't know enough to understand if this makes any sense.

[jcbenten]

I understand, maybe, why Sony would forgo the DSD volume control for the ZX2...But the PHA3 is a DSD DAC/AMP. When the two are connected volume control on the ZX2 is disabled...BUT the ZX2 does the DSD to PCM conversion and the PHA3 does the gain & volume control...makes no sense.

 

I think I am starting to repeat myself.

 

I am not an electrical engineer (I am a chemical engineer) but it seems the DSD needs to be converted to analog then volume control implemented. Isn't that how it is normally done? What benefit would DSD volume control provide?

[burnspbesq]

I am using my Westone W40s and am thinking of going for one of the Noble mid-grade offerings. Cannot quite get myself to wait so long for the 10s. But really my Westones sound great. I think I just need to get the 200 hours on the ZX2.

 

chris

 

Depending on your budget and your sound preferences, it's highly likely that Noble has at least one model that will blow your doors off. I love the PR, and I could certainly live with a custom 4. At its price point the universal 4 is a tremendous value.

[miguelito]

A few interesting observations... Firstly about 120 hrs give or take on this thing... I've done some listening with my Ray Samuels Predator amp (only analog amp, not the DAC portion of it) connected with Fiio L5 walkman port to banana cable.

 

Noble K10 without an amp - just so fecking sublime - hypnotically good. Interestingly the refinement does not benefit from using the Predator amp (and might even degrade the magic a bit).

 

Sony MRD-7506/Senns 600/650: Def benefit when using the Predator - the drive and authority is lacking without it.

 

It's as if the amp in the ZX2 is like a single-ended triode! Absolutely magical with easy loads, struggling with difficult ones... Just like my Ongaku. I feel at home.

[Richter Di]

Sony manipulated Android to prevent USB Host Mode. I have no trouble sending DSD files from my Droid Turbo to my PHA3 as DSD.

 

On the ZX2 I tried a USB Host Mode app and it can see the PHA3 but no DSD transfer with the Sony media player. I cannot get USB Player Pro to load properly (works on the Droid Turbo). Onkyo HD player also converts to PCM.

 

I am not mad at Sony...the ZX2 sounds great... but befuddled by the castration.

 

CHRIS

Hi Chris, does that mean that I could not use a Sony ZX2 at my DAC at home even when I would use the above mentioned Sony WMC-NWH10 adapter? Or could I use it for everything but not DSD files?