The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, Mazza said:

 

Me too! Managed to get an ex-demo W20 for the price of an N10. No brainer 

 

When demo'd both at dealer I found the SQ similar, not a stellar difference, but the W20 definitely had the edge on soundstage, precision and that extra bit of detail even on 44.1/16. That sold it for me because I use near/mid field monitors.

 

But TBH, if i hadn't heard the W20, i'd have been more than satisfied with the N10; it's definitely a very very fine bit of kit.

I agree that the N10 is great. However in my setup the W20 was a very big step up indeed and much more so than I expected. Much more analogue sounding, more quietness and blackness during soft or quiet passages, leading to more microdetails, more sound, detail and better soundstaging. Of course all will depend on the quality of ones own system.

[Vincent1234]

1 hour ago, Foxman50 said:

 

Really?, i never new that. Wish id kept one of the ISO's, would love to try that 

Next time then! ?

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, isquirrel said:

My findings also, however the feature that sealed the W20 purchase was the Word Clock function which allows you to slave the Aurenders clock to your DAC's clock. Given my MSB Select has the optional Femto 33 clock it is much more accurate than the Aurenders clocks.

True, that's a very nice W20 feature. The previous W20 owner, who's a friend of mine, tried that extensively (through double AES) against a top-spec USB connection and since the latter sounded equally good and is much less expensive I ended up with that connection too. Obviously USB doesn't require any synching with the dCS clock, since it's asynchronous. 

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, michaelD said:

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right?  You also say that you actually like the sound better splitting it up like this is that right?  Have you contacted MSB to discuss your findings and if so wonder what they say.  Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?  That is does the MSB DAC do anything special in the unfold or rendering process that may make this more likely to accept a unfolded file from the Aurender then say others?  Also are you using a USB or XLR connection from the Aurender to your DAC?

 

The reason I ask is I really like the Aurender look on the conductor and on the unit and would like to do exactly what you are doing once my DAC can unfold and render.

 

Also since you can hear the whole process what would you say the unfold process compared to the unfold plus render process is like 10%, 25% 90% of the sound improvement?  Just curious. 

I don't  have an MSB DAC, but a dCS. ?Please refer to one of my previous posts explaining in detail how the dCS is unfolding MQA. In general it helps SQ if any processing load is shared over multiple devices. In my case I rate the SQ gain doing so at 30%, but this will vary on your setup and cabling quality. Note that the W20 uses battery power, which improves SQ a lot. I'm using an ultra high quality USB cable between Aurender and the DAC (Crystal Dreamline Plus). Also this helps SQ a LOT!

[Vincent1234]

On 20-3-2018 at 1:16 PM, michaelD said:

Sorry for the late reply but you can do the unfold in the Aurender and then do the rendering only in your DAC?  There is no issue with your DAC to bring in an unfolded file and then only do the rendering is that right? ................... Do you have any idea or feel that all DAC's the unfold and render will act like yours is?

To add to this specific question: it should be no problem at all for any full MQA DAC to accept a signal that already has the first MQA unfold performed before it enters the DAC. This is part of the MQA standard and as you can read here it works perfectly fine on isquirrel's MSB Select (or is this DAC not MQA yet..?) as well as on my dCS. ?

Could be useful if others here would chime in too with their experiences using other brands of MQA DAC's while also letting their Aurender perform the first MQA unfold.

[Vincent1234]

18 minutes ago, NordicBob said:

 

Although my N10 sounds wonderful, I think that I might ask my dealer if I can home audition a W20 to see for myself how much better it sounds in my system. 

Let us know how it works out for you! ?

[Vincent1234]

47 minutes ago, classeaddict said:

I highly recommend that do not audition the W20 in your system unless you are willing to pony up the $$$$$

I own a W20 and speak from experience!

 

Steve

I bought a used one in perfect condition. That will save you a few nights lying awake.. ?

[Vincent1234]

40 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

Hmmm.  I like my N10 a great deal and I am quite sure it delivers everything the W20 does, any evidence to the contrary that may exist notwithstanding. 

I owned the N10 myself and it's really excellent indeed. But in the right system it's no match for a W20. As it should be. Trust me..

[Vincent1234]

3 hours ago, michaelD said:

So for all the W20 owners.  If you can’t take advantage of the dual XLR connection or the world clock does it sonically make enough difference to move to the W20 over the N10?  I don’t think so but I have never compared the two.  Also assume the system has enough resolution to hear the difference if there is any.  

Absolutely! See my earlier posts. I'm using a top-spec USB cable and the W20 sounds way better than the N10 did through the same USB cable.

[Vincent1234]

2 hours ago, NordicBob said:

 

One really needs to audition both the N10 and W20 in their own systems using their own ears to determine if the W20 would be that much better sonically  than the N10. Just my 2 cents on this issue 

Of course you are fully right. That goes for each and every component in your system, so a very expensive one as the W20 is no exception by any means. It all comes down to synergy. But in a high-spec system it literally took me 5 seconds (in a piece of Arvo Pärt) to be stunned by the improvement compared to my N10. I'm not exaggerating.

[Vincent1234]

3 hours ago, NordicBob said:

May I ask which USB cable that you are using to compare the N10 vs the W20?  Thanks and most appreciated.

Sure you may. I'm using a Crystal Cable Dreamline Plus (mono crystal silver) USB cable. I auditioned it after an advice from one of my audio buddies. It's very expensive, but the improvements it brings are stunning. It's been one of the best investments in audio for me. 

[Vincent1234]

8 minutes ago, Vincent1234 said:

 

Nothing to add actually. This was an accidental post that I'm unable to remove.. ??

[Vincent1234]

5 hours ago, agladstone said:

 

[Vincent1234]

Just now, Vincent1234 said:

That's not correct, @agladstone. I have never stated that the Aurender plays ISO files directly. What I said is that the Aurender will convert any correct ISO to separate DSD files itself. You DON'T need to convert the ISO's yourself upfront; the Aurender will convert them automatically once placed on its harddisk. I've done this many times and all you need to have is a little patience for the Aurender to unpack the ISO to playable files. Patience that you apparently were lacking.. ?

 

[Vincent1234]

On 18-3-2018 at 5:35 PM, Vincent1234 said:

It's not needed to convert ISO's yourself as your Aurender will take care of extracting them to individual DSD tracks automatically. All you have to do is simply copy the ISO's to your Aurender and have a little patience. After a while they will be converted to invididual DSD tracks and you are ready to go.

@agladstone, this is what I said.

[Vincent1234]

22 minutes ago, agladstone said:

So do you mean from the network folder via a computer? (Copy and paste an ISO into Aurender’s Music 1 folder for example and then it unfolds it?) 

i did try and play ISO’s directly from Conductor App and it gave me a notification like “file type not supported” ? 

I was trying this from the folder view and selecting SACD ISO’s I have on my NAS which is added as a NAS drive within Conductor App. 

I will now try to just add an ISO file to the Aurender’s internal HDD and see what happens. 

Yes. Doing it this way (using an internal Aurender HDD) the ISO should be unpacked automatically. The ISO's themselves indeed cannot be played; only the resulting files can after unpacking.

[Vincent1234]

1 hour ago, biosailor said:

I sometimes wonder if audiophiles catapult themselves into etheral spheres where marginal improvements are exaggerated.

Nothing 'marginal' is exaggerated, trust me. ? However, it all depends on the right system to be able to hear the differences. I would never buy the W20 for - say - an overall 20K system. Doesn't make much sense as you will hardly be able to hear the improvements and you should probably spend your money elsewhere first.

[Vincent1234]

6 minutes ago, Mazza said:

Personally, I don’t think the aural memory is as reliable as we audiophiles make out and we do exaggerate what we “hear” to justify a decision we have made. 

I directly compared the N10 and the W20 in my own system. It really took me 5 seconds to be stunned by the improvements brought by the W20. So, not much aural memory was needed here.. ?

[Vincent1234]

1 hour ago, biosailor said:

 

Sorry, didn't want to offense anyone! When changing components, one does hear differences. Just an example: I felt adventurous and hooked up an old Schiit Lyr2 that was sitting around for years instead of my beloved GSX-Mk2. And what happened? I did like the tubey sound of the Lyr2 better than the 3 K GSX-Mk2! So 'stepping down' from a 3 K beast to a 500 $ little box made me like the sound of the cheap Lyr2 better! Strange world!

No offense taken, no worries! ?

I only wanted to point out that after over 40 years working with audio I have found out a few things:

 

A). Some MAY indeed exaggerate improvements brought by better/more expensive equipment. This can especially happen if they are able to spend much more money on audio than a normal hard-working guy like you and me. ?

 

B). Some MAY underestimate the improvements brought by better/more expensive equipment. This can especially happen when they realise that they are not willing or able to spend the amount of money required for it.

 

By the way, both are equally logical human reponses.

 

In the end however you do need a really excellent (and unfortunately expensive) system to be able to judge the improvements brought about by top-tier equipment. It's what it is. There's no such thing as a free lunch. And the improvements from a top-tier device is magnified further if it's used with equally top-tier companions (amps, speakers, DAC, cabling etc.). There will always be ways to strive for sonic nirvana.. ?

 

 

[Vincent1234]

5 minutes ago, biosailor said:

Something else, doesn't involve upgrading : just downloaded The Modern Jazz Quratet's 'Pyramid' (super recording, super album, BTW) and transferred it onto my N100H as a wav file. The N100H displays it as an album, but it lists it as 'Unknown'. Tried re-transferring it with just 'Modern Jazz Quartet', but doesn't help, still displayed as 'Unknown'. Would anyone know the reason?

 

 

It's very likely a matter of adding the right metadata to the WAV files. Try 'Music Bee' (for Windows) to edit the metadata and the files will show up OK. It's a free and very nice program.

[Vincent1234]

22 minutes ago, biosailor said:

Thanks for the suggestion! Completely forgot that it could be a matter of metadata! Would you know Mac software for editing metadata?

Welcome! I don't have a Mac myself, so I don't know of a Mac alternative. Others are invited to chime in.

[Vincent1234]

6 hours ago, jon2020 said:

 

 

From a medical standpoint,  this is a very interesting observation of human behavior amongst audiophiles........and I am so, so guilty as charged! 

 

I texted a big smiley to my local dealer upon listening to my returned unit at home for having saved 6+ grand for the non-upgrade.

Dopamine-triggered euphoria all the way!

 

Hahah, I'm really happy for you! Still, in the back of my head I'm wondering what the N10 might bring additionally to your system. But since I don't know your system and since you are very happy now, let's not talk about that anymore (for now...). ?

[Vincent1234]

On 5-4-2018 at 8:50 AM, biosailor said:

Good to know that WAV files usually do not contain metadata, even though, at some occasions, wav files were recognized perfectly well on my N100H.

So, for Aurender, is it generally better to use AIFF files? I do not seem to have problems with the few wav files on my N100H.

For metadat editing, I use Metadatics. It's quite handy to use.

Thanks for the tip!

 

As STC pointed out, @agladstone is not correct w.r.t. WAV files (he is correct w.r.t. DFF files; you need to convert those to DSF to attach metadata). You can add metadata to WAV files and I'm doing exactly that for years already. ? No need to use AIFF. By the way: WAV sounds slightly better than FLAC too, probably due to less processing needed for WAV. Try it out yourself. Obviously the audible difference will be system dependant.

[Vincent1234]

46 minutes ago, JS21 said:

New SW available. 

Thanks for the notification. I just tried it and for MQA indeed the proper (fully unfolded) sample rate is shown in Conductor now. However, MQA files still show up as 32 bits files (W20) instead of the correct 24 bits. That's a little bit silly indeed when you think about Aurender testing their software before releasing an update..

[Vincent1234]

3 hours ago, biosailor said:

 

Yes, wav files are large, particularly high-resolution files. When I bought my N100H, the dealer was about to equip it with a 5 TB HDD, but somehow he couldn't get hold of the HDD. I might want to contact him again to see if I can get an upgraded HDD.

Storage is so cheap these days that I would always go for the maximum quality. WAV sounds better than FLAC so for any critical album it's a no brainer for me. The W20 even has 12Tb, but I really wouldn't know how to get it filled, especially since Tidal/MQA is becoming a more and more important source for me.