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The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread


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19 hours ago, Ponzi said:

Interesting.  I will have to experiment more.  I will say that I had trouble betting good connections with many USB cables.  They seemed not to fit tightly and even sagged a bit, when plugged it.  The AES by contrast snap in and hold tightly.  Also, I am using a switch between the W20SE and the router, which made an obvious and immediate improvement. Possibly that makes the choice of interconnect less consequential. ?????

Hi Ponzi. Same here; I'm using a wonderful Melco S100 switch between the W20 and the router with a Crystal Absolute Dream Ethernet cable. It really does improve things hugely, but I would expect this to be independant from the impact of the digital connection between the Aurender and DAC. It is well known that the implementation quality of the different digital interfaces of a DAC (AES, USB, coax etc.) can vary greatly and this will have a very big impact on the resulting sound quality. Probably even more than the cable quality being used.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry about the lengthy quote -- dumb newbie error.

 

But I did have a question for Ponzi or anyone else with experience re the new W20 SE. I have the N10 also. It feeds an all Benchmark system into Thiel 3.7 speakers. I like the N10, but am now wondering about the W20SE. Reading between the lines in the Harley review and some other remarks here hints at a softening or "rounding" of transients. Has anyone with the W20SE noticed this? I would not want anything like that.  I'm a (semi) retired classical musician, been around acoustic music all my life, wife has Steinway in the next room, that kind of thing. Thanks for any thoughts on this.

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FWIW, if I have noticed anything it is exactly the opposite.  But then, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "softening."  

 

Musical instruments themselves, of course, seldom have sharp or glaring transients.  Not never, as you know, but seldom.  Stereo systems, by contrast, even very good stereo systems, often do.  One might say that instruments "soften" transients, but only if one takes one's bearings from reproduced music.  Piano recordings are notoriously glaring in the upper registers, or at least that is my experience.  But much less so, even not at all, on the W20SE.  Even so, the transients on the W20SE are as close to live music as I have heard.  I guess what I am saying is that getting the transients right is both very tricky and, when done right, singularly rewarding. Softer maybe, but only because the glare if gone.  

 

One thing I've notice with the W20SE, too, is that one can tolerate higher volumes. My guess is that the missing glare explains this also.    

 

I would have you try a recording like Paul Galbraith's recording of Bach's lute suites, played on an eight string guitar.  It is masterfully recorded and of course Galbraith plays with a greatness few can rival.  On the N10, I found it riveting.  But more polite.  On the W20SE, you can hear more breathing, which is a bother, but the visceral impact of the mid- and lower registers is just quite something.  The N10 presents a beautiful painting.  The W20 SE presents vibrating strings, rosin, faint pianissimos, the rocking back and forth of the instrument . . . in a word, the real thing.  

 

Ivan Morevich's Chopin preludes, played on his famous 7 foot Baldwin, are also a wonder.  I could go on and on.

 

 

   

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2 hours ago, Ponzi said:

FWIW, if I have noticed anything it is exactly the opposite.  But then, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "softening."  

 

Musical instruments themselves, of course, seldom have sharp or glaring transients.  Not never, as you know, but seldom.  Stereo systems, by contrast, even very good stereo systems, often do.  One might say that instruments "soften" transients, but only if one takes one's bearings from reproduced music.  Piano recordings are notoriously glaring in the upper registers, or at least that is my experience.  But much less so, even not at all, on the W20SE.  Even so, the transients on the W20SE are as close to live music as I have heard.  I guess what I am saying is that getting the transients right is both very tricky and, when done right, singularly rewarding. Softer maybe, but only because the glare if gone.  

 

One thing I've notice with the W20SE, too, is that one can tolerate higher volumes. My guess is that the missing glare explains this also.    

 

I would have you try a recording like Paul Galbraith's recording of Bach's lute suites, played on an eight string guitar.  It is masterfully recorded and of course Galbraith plays with a greatness few can rival.  On the N10, I found it riveting.  But more polite.  On the W20SE, you can hear more breathing, which is a bother, but the visceral impact of the mid- and lower registers is just quite something.  The N10 presents a beautiful painting.  The W20 SE presents vibrating strings, rosin, faint pianissimos, the rocking back and forth of the instrument . . . in a word, the real thing.  

 

Ivan Morevich's Chopin preludes, played on his famous 7 foot Baldwin, are also a wonder.  I could go on and on.

 

How does the W20SE compare to the N30 which seems to be the new top model?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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Hello Folks. Aside from the amount of storage capacity and the integrated ripper, am I giving anything up by trading up from an ACS10 to the W20SE? 
 

Actually, I think the ACS10 sounds excellent streaming and from storage, but am considering an "upgrade" nonetheless. 
 

Once everything is ripped, I don't really need that feature. I have not nearly used the storage space I thought I would. Doing a back-up "manually" once and a while wouldn't be a big pain vs. the ACS mirrored raid.

 

Users here with the SE seem to like it. Anything you don't like? Aside from price. 😉 Thanks for any input you may offer.

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Another question for Ponzi (others welcome to chime in too of course): are your experiences with the W20SE using the upsampling capacity? How does this feature compare with the standard feed?

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I read TAS article where the reviewer was all giddy about upsampling.  He was using a Berekley Alpha DAC I believe and I'm using a Bricasti M21 that does internal upsampling.  I heard no such benefit when I listened maybe certain DAC's you will.  What I did notice is the 2dB change in volume which I was not sure what to make of it as some manipulation was being done for that to happen but not sure that was good.  On the other hand Aurender does things very well so I had confidence that the 2dB effect was not an issue.  Anyway long story short I don't upsample any more.  What he should of commented on is the extreme mode which does infact make a difference.

 

Also far as the W20SE its a fabulous device and I've said this in past posts the name change makes you think that these are just a few tweaks but the difference in my case is similar when I moved from the N10 to the W20.  Moving from the W20 to the W20SE is a very similar jump.  Quite impressive!!!

 

2 Channel: Bricasti M21 / M28 SE /Aurender W20SE Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S, Bass Trap & R walls) Misc.: SR Orange Fuses

Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Subs tuned w/PBK and Special Phase technique

Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: Sotm switch and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall  wire

Nordost: QV2's, QK1's, 2-QX4, QPoint's,TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full O2 Loom / QSource & Points 

Misc.: iPad 3 /Lovan Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, Descent i's, Vanquish, Focus / Parasound: 3-A23 / Mark Levinson 433 / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM60 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/V2/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI

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Very helpful, @michaelD. I use Chord HMS and DAVE, so the upsampling in the SE is not a target feature. Initially, I thought it might actually be redundant (to me), so I didn't pursue the SE.

 

Frankly, the Taiko Extreme DIY thread is what got me thinking about the SE. I don't think I would be the best participant in the DIY group, and tweaking software is not fun (to me).

 

So, then it's Taiko vs. SE. I speculate over that sound differential, but have not found any concrete info...other than cost differential. 😉

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I just discovered that my N100SC apparently does not automatically upgrade its system software, it is still on the previous version. Checking for upgrades via the app states there are no new upgrades, which according to the Aurender site is incorrect. Is there a way to download it and do it manually?

 

Also, is a temperature of 50 celcius normal? There are no moving parts whatsoever in it. 

An annoying noise annoys an oyster

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1 hour ago, edje said:

Last time the conductor app typically starts in the settings menu. Does this sound familliar? Is this a bug, or a setting I missed?

My N10 has been doing this for about a few weeks now. A minor pain which I wish would go away. Anyone have any ideas?

Aurender N10, Esoteric F-05 Integrated Amplifier, Synergistic Active USB, Oppo 203, Synergistic Atmosphere Level 3 UEF Speaker cables, Legacy Audio Focus SE, Rega Planar 10 turntable with Aphelion 2 cartridge.

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2 hours ago, edje said:

Last time the conductor app typically starts in the settings menu. Does this sound familliar? Is this a bug, or a setting I missed?

@edje @rwwjr44 this is an anomaly with the current app version. It will be fixed in the forthcoming app update.

 

4 hours ago, Anonamemouse said:

I just discovered that my N100SC apparently does not automatically upgrade its system software, it is still on the previous version. Checking for upgrades via the app states there are no new upgrades, which according to the Aurender site is incorrect. Is there a way to download it and do it manually?

 

Also, is a temperature of 50 celcius normal? There are no moving parts whatsoever in it. 

@Anonamemouse in some network environments we have become aware of an issue reaching our update server. Please send a remote support request email (Settings>Help>Send Remote Support Email) and we can update your Aurender manually. I don't expect you will encounter this issue again after that. Regarding the temperature, we can check the temperature logs as well and advise. Thanks!

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28 minutes ago, AriMargolis said:

@edje @rwwjr44

 

@Anonamemouse in some network environments we have become aware of an issue reaching our update server. Please send a remote support request email (Settings>Help>Send Remote Support Email) and we can update your Aurender manually. I don't expect you will encounter this issue again after that. Regarding the temperature, we can check the temperature logs as well and advise. Thanks!

An email was sent! Please also go back in the inbox, I replied to your email on December 27.

An annoying noise annoys an oyster

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Hi Folks, Hi Fellow W20 owners!

 

Greetings from Hong Kong.  I've owned the Aurender W20 from around seven years ago, and have been very satisfied with its performance as well as the excellent support provided by @AriMargolis and his technical team.

 

I have a few questions regarding the compatibility/connection of the W20 to an external 10MHz sinewave master clock.  After hearing the benefits for my three SOtM components (nH-10G x 2, and USBultra x 1) I'm having a serious thought about buying the Cybershaft OP21A

Mono & Stereo © 2020: NEW CYBERSHAFT OCXO MASTER CLOCKS (monoandstereo.com)

 

1) Is the W20's BNC clocklink connector only compatible only with a 75 ohm connector and clock cable?  If so, 10MHz sine wave master clocks typically require a 50 ohm connector/cable, so that would imply a mis-match

 

2) Is a 10MHz sine wave master clock signal compatible with the W20 when only the asynchronous USB output is used?

 

Previously, I've experienced conflicts between my MSB Select II DAC's wordclock output - either 44.1kHz or 48.0kHz multiples (depending on the source) - and the W20's wordclock input, which required the disconnection of the BNC clocklink cable to prevent constant hiccups.

 

3) In general, would a 10MHz external masterclock signwave signal be simply a "plug in and forget" connection to the W20, agnostic to both the source (whether streaming TIDAL or playing back ripped ALAC/WAV files) and the output connection (whether synchronous S/PDIF coax, synchronous AES/EBU, or asynchronous USB)?

 

Thanks in advance for your help in helping me navigate through this!

 

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Dear @AriMargolis and fellow Aurender owners,

 

What happens inside the circuit board (and chips) of the Aurender W20 when an external 10MHz sinewave master clock is connected?  What does the W20 do with the master clock signal?  Where does the master clock signal go, and when is it used, under what circumstances?

 

When only the USB output is used, will the W20 completely ignore the 10MHz sinewave master clock which is connected to the BNC Word Clock input?  Or, even then only the USB output is used, will the 10MHz sinewave master clock be used to “help” the W20 process the incoming digital signal more precisely, much like how outboard switches and USB conditioners do?

 

The answers to the questions above are important to me is because I will be making decisions on whether or not to buy very expensive equipment (and cabling) to deliver a 10MHz sinewave master clock signal to the Aurender W20.  I know for sure that the master clock will benefit the other three peripheral devices, namely the SOtM nH-10G (2 units), and the SOtM USBultra (1 unit).

 

Will the W20's front panel even display / verify the connection to a 10MHz sine wave master clock signal?

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On the W20's motherboard, there are several crystal oscillators - including a 45.1584MHz, 49.152MHz, and 12.8MHz OCXO clocks.  Which are "overridden" when a 10MHz sine wave Master Clock is connected?  How are the word clock's "native" frequencies synthesized?

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@AriMargolis, I'm still wondering what the W20 does with a 10MHz Master Clock... it would be great if you could help chime into answering some of my questions above - thank you!

 

BTW, this post by John Swensen on page 115 on the forum topic, "Uptone Audio REGEN" explains in exquisite detail the USB protocol - I now appreciate a lot more what engineers have to contend with when ensuring data integrity using USB !

 

 

 

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@Quadiffusor HKThank you very much for your thoughtful technical questions. I’m discussing your questions with engineering to make sure I can answer them completely. I can tell you now that a 10Mhz Master Clock is compatible and the 50 ohm mismatch shouldn’t be a problem for a sine wave clock signal (but I need to get some more info about this particular part of your question).

 

Due to the nature of asynchronous USB, the clock input on Aurenders with clock inputs has no impact whatsoever on what the unit is doing when output USB. It only applies to SPDIF/AES-EBU outputs. 

 

And, yes, the the clock sync signal will be displayed on screen when an external master clock or word clock is in use.

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