The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[Vincent1234]

33 minutes ago, Mazza said:

I had the opposite experience with Ethernet cable - tried audioquest vodka and found no improvement whatsoever over cat6a. 

But I don’t stream from NAS, I only use the W20’s HDD so maybe that’s one reason  The Ethernet is only used for control

 

YMMV of course! 

For me personally it matters as much for playback of locally stored files on the W20 HDD's. Common mode noise makes no distinction between those and streaming files from the internet. 😉

But I agree it can certainly be system dependant. However, the W20 seems to me to be really sensitive to the quality of switch and Ethernet cable quality. The Melco S100 works great here, as well as Shunyata Sigma Ethernet cables - better even than AQ Diamond but less expensive.

Also here: YMMV.

[Mazza]

10 hours ago, Vincent1234 said:

For me personally it matters as much for playback of locally stored files on the W20 HDD's. Common mode noise makes no distinction between those and streaming files from the internet. 😉

But I agree it can certainly be system dependant. However, the W20 seems to me to be really sensitive to the quality of switch and Ethernet cable quality. The Melco S100 works great here, as well as Shunyata Sigma Ethernet cables - better even than AQ Diamond but less expensive.

Also here: YMMV.

@vincent1234 for such situations maybe optical Ethernet might yield better isolation at much cheaper cost.  
 

Not tried it personally

[Vincent1234]

31 minutes ago, Mazza said:

@vincent1234 for such situations maybe optical Ethernet might yield better isolation at much cheaper cost.  
 

Not tried it personally

Optical isolation can indeed help too, although not all kinds of interference (e.g. jitter) are being stopped that way. One disadvantage of optical is the fact that one needs two additional conversions: from electrical to optical and then back again. I must admit that I haven't tried it myself either, but the conversions are holding me back.

[MarkusBarkus]

FWIW: I have an optical run in my system, and I found it improved SQ. I "only" have the ACS10, BTW. 😉
 

I started with two G10Tek FMCs to test concept with a one meter optical "break," then back to a 35' ethernet run from IT closet on first floor to basement audio room. I used Cat6a, and later "custom" cryo-ed, unshielded run with Telegartner connectors. Improvement with each change.
 

But running FO cable for 35' leg and adding an etherReGen with Farad3 PS was even better. Cable into Aurender was TriodeWires "Discreet" FYI. 
 

I am currently using the Sonore OM converter and the 35' FO run into a PFBuffalo switch, which is quite good. Buffalo is parent company of Melco, if you've followed any of those threads (PF is Pink Faun--replaced stock chip with their OCXO).
 

Next week, I will pull a new Single Mode OM2 FO run to replace the MultiMode cable to test that, upgrading the 10Gtek SFPs to Finistars.  
 

So, you can see, I am not afraid of adding a few devices into the mix--but all power supplies are very good, which is a

must. Absolute must, IMO.
 

(Later today I will modify my DAVE with the Sean Jacobs DC4...if UPS delivers.)

 

Summary: I think the optical run is beneficial. I have helped two friends add it to their systems, and they love it. Their ears are better than mine, IMO.

[merge03]

I'm thinking about adding the Sonore converts to our network as well.

Keep us posted on the SFP single-mode upgrade.  Curious to know if that makes any difference.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

FWIW: if anyone thinks the optical might work, but wants a proof of concept in situ, I think my all-in cost was under 100 bucks to add the optical "break" in my system.
 

Maybe add 25 bucks more if your case study is more than one meter. FO is approximately a dollar a foot, US market. A little less.

 

Not that 100 bucks is nothing, but it worked very well and I sold it all for 50 bucks to a friend three months later.

 

I ordered the 10Gtek bundle from Amazon because I saw it mentioned in a couple of threads from industry people.

 

2 FMCs

2 SFPs

1 meter of FO cable.

FMCs came with wall warts, but it works for testing. I had a Shanti unused so I fed both FMCs with the dual 5V from that.

 

I'll circle back on the single mode stuff, but across 35' I don't expect a change. But it's a hobby, right? Cheers...

 

 

[scottman]

Thanks folks for this discussion. As a couple of you said, it’s a hobby; and, you’ve given me a good deal to think about and play with.

[Ponzi]

Have you fellas tried the Telegartner M12 Gold switch?  

[lmf22]

I'm getting a PS Audio Directstream Junior (DSJ) soon and wondering if anyone compared the sound quality of the Aurender X100L USB output versus streaming via the PS Audio DSJ with the Bridge II network card? That is: 

 

Aurender X100L --> USB --> PS Audio DSJ

   vs. 

Everyday desktop computer with JRiver 25 (not optimized for audio) --> Ethernet --> PS Audio DSJ

   (Cables are Nordost Heimdall 2 USB and Nordost Heimdall 2 Ethernet). 

[Mazza]

7 hours ago, lmf22 said:

I'm getting a PS Audio Directstream Junior (DSJ) soon and wondering if anyone compared the sound quality of the Aurender X100L USB output versus streaming via the PS Audio DSJ with the Bridge II network card? That is: 

 

Aurender X100L --> USB --> PS Audio DSJ

   vs. 

Everyday desktop computer with JRiver 25 (not optimized for audio) --> Ethernet --> PS Audio DSJ

   (Cables are Nordost Heimdall 2 USB and Nordost Heimdall 2 Ethernet). 

Cannot comment on your particular hardware combo but recently i have been trying to listen to music with my MacBookpro with Audirvana and Audeze LCD-3 headphones in my Home-office instead of my dedicated listening setup which in another room
 

I have never done this before and cannot believe the amount of noise and crud coming through the headphones from albeit a very busy, everyday workhorse, hardwire networked Macbookpro; to the extent that it is bordering on unlistenable. It’s like having a bad connection or failing component 
 

I know a lot of people will say you can get great sound out of the Mac with some setup care and lots of special usb isolation, mains cleanup, different s/w, minimalist processes running etc etc but my experience is that it is so bad that I am not so sure. So, I am in the process of setting up a stand-alone desktop setup to avoid the Mac altogether. 

I would have thought you might find the same when you compare your dedicated setup . Should be night and day difference  Try and see!

 

 

 

[lmf22]

17 hours ago, Mazza said:

Cannot comment on your particular hardware combo but recently i have been trying to listen to music with my MacBookpro with Audirvana and Audeze LCD-3 headphones in my Home-office instead of my dedicated listening setup which in another room
 

I have never done this before and cannot believe the amount of noise and crud coming through the headphones from albeit a very busy, everyday workhorse, hardwire networked Macbookpro; to the extent that it is bordering on unlistenable. It’s like having a bad connection or failing component 
 

I know a lot of people will say you can get great sound out of the Mac with some setup care and lots of special usb isolation, mains cleanup, different s/w, minimalist processes running etc etc but my experience is that it is so bad that I am not so sure. So, I am in the process of setting up a stand-alone desktop setup to avoid the Mac altogether. 

I would have thought you might find the same when you compare your dedicated setup . Should be night and day difference  Try and see!

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I will definitely try it out, but I have a feeling the Aurender via USB will beat my unoptimized desktop computer via Ethernet. 

[Mazza]

6 hours ago, lmf22 said:

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I will definitely try it out, but I have a feeling the Aurender via USB will beat my unoptimized desktop computer via Ethernet. 

+1 🙂

[jfddoc]

I'm thinking about upgrading from the N10 to the N20.  I see that the N20 will have user controlled upsampling up to 176 like the

W20se.  Does anyone have any experience with this?   Thanks.

 

https://aurender.com/n20/

[Noushy]

I am doing it for the word clock input but I have to say $4000 more than the N10 and no storage included is.... ouch!

[rwwjr44]

If I was new to Aurender, I would consider a N20. But I feel my N10 is working for me...

[Noushy]

1 hour ago, rwwjr44 said:

If I was new to Aurender, I would consider a N20. But I feel my N10 is working for me...

It does everything well and if you dont have a high end DAC then not really worth the upgrade.  The new display is nice and upgraded power supply.  My N10 was been upgraded with enterprise SSDs with larger capacity cache and SSDs instead of HDDs. I plan on keeping it given its original cost and the $2000 worth of SSDs that went into it.

 

Noushy

[scottman]

I just moved my n100sc without incident. However, it will not complete the boot cycle now. It connects to the Wi-Fi network, but won’t settle into full operational mode. The set up is so easy that it seems unlikely, but is it possible I’m missing something in the set up? I don’t want to jump to the conclusion I have a hardware/firmware problem before considering other possibilities.

[Deyorew]

It seems very little has been said about the ACS100 (the more affordable sibling of ACS10)

I saw a post a while back about the spec differences between the two. Mainly around user replaceable HDD, USB/ethernet isolation and power supply.

Anyone have real world experience with it?

With the ACS100 priced at $1000 more than an N100H, I would tend to think its audio performance is at least as good as that entry level Aurender?

 

The little discussion I have seen shrugs the ACS100 off as a ripper only, but so many folks are happy with their N100 series that I think this downplay is coming from folks that have W20 and DCS type of money in their systems.

 

My big question is around value, I don't have $15,000 to spend on a streamer and network interface and I am still living in the mac mini style server world and ready for a change. Does the ACS100 offer good audiophile value at its price point?

 

the ACS10 at several thousand more seems overkill for my McIntosh/Oppo grade setup. I have currently just had SSD direct in my OPPO 205 for a year or two and am ready for a full hardware/software solution of streamer and eventual DAC.

 

Any feedback or insight to the ACS100 would be greatly appreciated...

[Ponzi]

Noushy:

 

Per your question of a few days ago, I placed an order last week for a W20se, to replace my N10.  My dealer treated me well on the trade, so I did not get hurt too much.  I am hoping to report what others have, which is a HUGE improvement.  I will report back once i have the new unit in place.  That said, the N10 is a lovely unit in my judgment and hard to fault.  

[AurenderAmerica]

2 hours ago, Deyorew said:

With the ACS100 priced at $1000 more than an N100H, I would tend to think its audio performance is at least as good as that entry level Aurender?

@Deyorew it's a good question and you might assume the above would be true, but it is not! There are 3 things that, to my knowledge, can really effect USB audio output quality (and I'm not an engineer...there may be more or better ways to describe this):

 

1. USB chipset, including hardware isolation & filtration 

2. Power supply of the unit at large

3. Software

 

ACS100 has the same playback software as N100H/C/SC, but it does NOT benefit from the high performance power supply and the isolated/filtered USB hardware that EVERY other current model Aurender has. 

 

We tell our dealers that ACS100 is intended as an add-on solution for CD ripping and library management, NOT as a primary player that connects to the DAC.

 

I hope this helps. 

 

By the way, have you all tried the iPhone app yet!? it just hit the App Store last week...give it a spin!

[Noushy]

2 hours ago, Ponzi said:

Noushy:

 

Per your question of a few days ago, I placed an order last week for a W20se, to replace my N10.  My dealer treated me well on the trade, so I did not get hurt too much.  I am hoping to report what others have, which is a HUGE improvement.  I will report back once i have the new unit in place.  That said, the N10 is a lovely unit in my judgment and hard to fault.  

I agree and patiently waiting for my N20.  Dealer offered me a great trade too but decided to keep my N10 for now.  I could have jumped to the W20SE but just felt the N20 would be perfect.

 

Noushy

[Ponzi]

I must say I didn’t really know about the N20.  Too much to keep up with, I suppose.  I am anxious to hear your assessment of it.  mmc

[Noushy]

3 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

I must say I didn’t really know about the N20.  Too much to keep up with, I suppose.  I am anxious to hear your assessment of it.  mmc

It has a word clock input and to be honest paired with a killer DAC I doubt it will that different than the W20SE.  I think the clock sync is what will bring it up to W20/20SE levels or close.  And yes I have a $35K MSB setup I think will be amazing.

 

Noushy

[Ponzi]

Is that the reference Noushy?  I borrowed that from my dealer and thought it was lovely.  I hear, however, that it shines best with a server that has the features you mentioned.  The upgrades never stop do they?  

[Noushy]

2 hours ago, Ponzi said:

Is that the reference Noushy?  I borrowed that from my dealer and thought it was lovely.  I hear, however, that it shines best with a server that has the features you mentioned.  The upgrades never stop do they?  

Fully optioned Premier.  Entry reference close to the same but the way I would order it closer to $50k