The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[biosailor]

Hello All,

 

this is my first post in the forum. I bought an Aurender N100H about three weeks ago and I thoroughly enjoy it. I have a medium sized library ranging from CD quality to 24/192 high res files. When listening to my local albums, I thoroughly enjoy the N100H. One caveat though, and I read that here in the forum, the N100H has the tendency of putting a layer of bass that I did not hear when playing the same files from my MacBook Pro via Audirvana+/Roon. The extra layer of bass is not unpleasant, as I am a headphone person, using a headphone amp that is said to be on the bright side (GSX-Mk2). Also, my main headphone, HD800, is also a bit bass shy. So the extra bass layer does come in pleasantly!

However, it gets unbearable when streaming. Tidal Master files. First, I mark them as favs in Tidal's desktop app, and then they are visible as favs in Aurender conductor app. However, listening to Master files on the N100H is just bass layer, very syrupy! In contrast, on Tidal desktop, the very same files are marvellous, airy, lots of space between instruments, and a joy to listen to! Has anyone made the same observations? Is there a way of alleviating this distorting layer of bass in Tidal master files? Thanks for any input!

 

 

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[biosailor]

If your preamp has tone controls, check them. Sounds silly but something similar happened to me many years ago.

 

Thanks for replying! No, the preamp is switched off and it has no tone controls whatsoever. I suspect that the Aurender has difficulties recognising the Master format. The Aurender tells me it sees a FLAC file, but I don't remember what sampling rate it displays. I'll check that and get back to you.

 

 

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[biosailor]

Have you tried listening to a large verity of MQA albums to ensure the Aurender is bloating the bass equally in all of them?

I have found after some experimentation, that some of the MQA albums sound amazing and others sound awful!!

I believe it must come down to which version the studios are using to convert to MQA and that the ones that sound awful must be from newer remaster's with heavy Dynamic Range Compression applied to them.

I have also done a comparison of MacBook Pro / Tidal desktop app into DAC vs through Aurrender and I agree that the same albums sound different, yet to me, the MQA albums that sound really good, all sound much better played through the Aurrender (N100H).

Tidal (and Aurrender / Conductor) needs to come up with a better way to identify which album version is MQA and a better way to sort through them and view / discover them, what a pain it is searching through Tidal App and then favoriting them all and then back into conductor app to find them and play them!!!

I discovered yesterday that they continue to keep adding more MQA albums each day!!

 

My apologies, agladstone, for the late reply, and for that matter to all who replied.

I have not tested a large number of MQA files as I am rather into jazz and the MQAs available are from quite diverse genres. But it is a good point to check several, as they could vary in sound quality.

My concern was rather that the N100H tends to add bass that might be not there, a layer I do not hear when playing directly from the Tidal app > MacBook Pro > USB > Aqua La Voce S2 DAC.

I totally agree that Tidal needs to come up with a better solution for finding MQA files!

So what it looks like is that might we all have to invest in MQA-capable DACs to take full advantage of MQA? I personally don't feel like. The only good solution one can come up with is the Mytek Brooklyn. But I read mixed reviews! So it's a bit of an odd situation. I guess we do have to see how the MQA field develops!

 

 

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[biosailor]

My apologies, agladstone, for the late reply, and for that matter to all who replied.

I have not tested a large number of MQA files as I am rather into jazz and the MQAs available are from quite diverse genres. But it is a good point to check several, as they could vary in sound quality.

My concern was rather that the N100H tends to add bass that might be not there, a layer I do not hear when playing directly from the Tidal app > MacBook Pro > USB > Aqua La Voce S2 DAC.

I totally agree that Tidal needs to come up with a better solution for finding MQA files!

So what it looks like is that might we all have to invest in MQA-capable DACs to take full advantage of MQA? I personally don't feel like. The only good solution one can come up with is the Mytek Brooklyn. But I read mixed reviews! So it's a bit of an odd situation. I guess we do have to see how the MQA field develops!

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile[/quote

 

I have been using the N100H going into an MQA capable DAC and Tidal keeps adding more and more MQA albums daily! I think they are up to about 1,350 MQA albums now and I can tell you firsthand that a majority of them sound amazing!

Thus, it is definitely worth purchasing and MQA DAC and I would say that the Mytek Brooklyn is a good solid choice for you!!

Also, as an FYI per some other comments on this thread, the Aurender N10 and N100H passes the MQA files on to an MQA enabled DAC seamlessly!

Also, another tip, only a small portion of the currently available MQA albums are listed on Tidal via the Whas New / Masters listing, most of them are "hidden" and you need to go into the individual artists pages and then look under albums, then if you see duplicates of the albums, try and play them via the desktop version of the Tidal app and if "Master" shows up in the lower right hand corner (instead of HiFi), then you've just discovered a hidden MQA Album, as stated, I have now found 1,350 MQA Albums doing this tedious process, not sure why Tidal is making this so difficult for all of us??

There is a Google Apps shared spreadsheet floating around with most of them listed and it's updated daily, I've added all of my discoveries to that spreadsheet, I'll have to figure out how to add a link to it on the forum for everyone

 

Super, agladstone, you confirm what I was thinking, namely to invest in an MQA-capable DAC. Even though it is not something I am particularly looking forward to. But with the N100H at hand I reckon that's the best option. So far I was heavily into R2R DACs, but for the sake of MQA capability, the Mytek Brooklyn seems to be a cost-effective solution. I wonder what other brands of DACs might jump onto the MQA bandwagon.

Anyway: good to know that the N100H passes the MQA file bit-perfectly to the downstream DAC! Appreciate your input!

 

 

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[biosailor]

 

Ok so it looks if it looks like you are going to use it a s a USB dac only, you may want to consider selling your N100H for 2k. and buying a A10. The Mytek is 1999 so that brings you to almost 4 k. A good USB cable is at least $200.00 ( on the Cheap) if you upgrade power cords you need to upgrade 1 instead of 2. If you are into isolation you worry about 1 box instead of 2. You would add an additional 2 tb of storage with the A10. As far as SQ would go I think the A10 would have an advantage over the Brooklyn ( albeit losing a lot on connectivity and a headphone amp). Street price on a A10 is at least 10% less so you are talking about less than a $ 800.00 difference when all things are considered. Just a thought

 

Good idea! I'll think about it!

 

 

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[biosailor]

Thanks for your input!

I will say that I do suspect that the Mytek Brooklyn is most likely a superior DAC to the Oppo (and I have all of the accessories in-between as you did - a W4S RUR, Two dedicated LPSU's (one for the RUR, one for the Brooklyn), and two top of the line Cardas split cable (power and data legs separated) USB cables between Aurrender and RUR and DAC and also an Intona Isolater and also a hospital grade Ethernet isolater, etc. However, I don't doubt for a second that just simply removing the entire USB chain would not in itself increase sound quality.

Perhaps I should list my N100H and DAC (and all the USB cables and USB accessories, and two HD Plex LPSU's) and get the A10?? It's possible I could come close to an even

Exchange??

 

For me, the A10 is too expensive! I do not want to be provocative, but I do not know how the A10's internal DAC compares to some top-notch external DACs. There would be tremendous impetus for the MQA story if there were simple ways of combining external, MQA-decoding DACs to be chosen from. From the available ones, the choices are slim. To me, the concept of combining Tidal software MQA unfolding with full DAC unfolding up to 24/192 is the most viable option and I'd like to see the various manufacturers to gear up to devise PCM/DSD/MQA-compatible machines.

 

 

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[biosailor]

I fully agree with your opinion that it's really time for Aurender to bring us a large update of their UI. They used to be the king in that area, but I do feel they're losing ground and have hardly added any substantial functionality over the last few years, whereas Roon changed the server UI world in a short period of time.

I also agree on your remark on vinyl! [emoji4] Regardless of the very significant upgrades I have made in the digital area over the last years my trusted LP12 is still the best source in my system. Strange but true.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Agree, too! I just don't get it why Aurender misses out on a great opportunity to include Roon into their app. It would make things so much simpler. Particularly, since soundwise, everything else is really great! I so much like the way my music sounds when played through my N100H! Great stuff could become much better! I do hope Aurender makes a leap forward!

[biosailor]

No doubt integration of Roon in the Conductor app will cost Aurender license money to be paid to Roon and that's holding them back. Time will tell if they will regret their choice. [emoji6]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

As a customer, I'd be prepared to pay license fees. How about two Conductor apps, one with, and one without inclusion of Roon, and the customer decides if paying the license is an option?

 

 

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[biosailor]

To be honest I don't see the point in integrating Roon in Conductor. Either invest in Conductor and make sure it gets ahead of the competition and in line with the hardware, or bite the bullet and replace Conductor with Roon entirely. I'm not sure if the Roon path is possible without a Roon server in the Aurender box.

 

A different path could actually be to focus entirely on the hardware and build a Roon compliant server box (or boxes) based on Linux with top of the line components with 100% focus on SQ

 

I guess the technical side of incorporating Roon is not trivial. If server boxes are required, this would have to be integrated as an upgrade option.

[biosailor]

22 minutes ago, eganz said:

Positive A10 review: 

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/aurender-a10-caching-network-music-serverplayer/?page=2

 

Yes, this is indeed a good review, glad for Aurender. As a matter of fact, this review made me thinking: I am using a N100H and till recently, I did like it. The only thing that for me to nag was the lack of Roon integration. So I switched back and forth between Roon running on my Mac Book Pro and feeding straight into my DAC (Aqua Hifi La Voce S2). I thought the sound from Roon was a bit more revealing, particularly in the highs. Si I went ahead and, maybe not quite logical, bought the small Auralic Aries Mini and set it up as a Roon endpoint. Not bad this little thingy! The highs are better on the Aries Mini (not so much, but still) but the bass response of the N100H is so much better and overall I do not hear so much improvement with the Roon/Aries Mini combo.

 

So I am totally torn: should I stay with my N100H that I basically like, despite it's somewhat shallow and unrevealing highs or is an upgrade to the much praised but very expensive N10 worth the money? Is the N10 so much more superior to the N100H? What I truly like with Aurender is the all-in-one package, whereas the Roon-Aries combo is a bit clumsy requiring Roon running on a core!

 

So, N10/N100H owners, what should I do? Thanks for input!

[biosailor]

19 hours ago, Vincent1234 said:

Hard to give a proper advice for a system I'm not familiar with. However, what I can tell you from my own experience is that the N10 was a very significant improvement from my previous X100L (so not an N100H, but a similar SQ). But obviously all the rest will depend on the rest of your audio system and also on your own ears. ? Any good dealer will/should be willing to demo an N10 in your own system and listening room.

 

I‘m aware that proper advice is hard to give. I did some careful comparison between the Aries Mini, Aurender N100H and the Mac Book Pro feeding my DAC. Aries Mini and Mac Book used Roon, while, naturally, the Aurender was using the Conductor app. All in all, the Aurender gave the most balanced SQ, meaning that bass and highs were best represented, while I still preferred a bit more extended highs from the N100H. But to me it was the winner.

The Aries Mini sometimes had an unpleasantly ringing sound in the highs, whereas the Mac Book straight into my DAC was really well extended in the highs, but bass was nowhere.

So, maybe thinking about the N10 for an upgrade is not a bad idea, particularly since everyone raves about it and telling me that it plays in a different league!

[biosailor]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but has anyone combined theAurender N100H with the DirectStream Junior? I am asking since I am about to upgrade my DAC and one of the candidates I am following is PS Audio’s DirectStream Junior. Thanks for any input!

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, russellbobby said:

I transferred 2 tb on a portable hard drive plugged directly into the back of the A10.  Smooth as silk, almost took a day to transfer.

Now just update the downloads and such over the network.

 

Did the same on the N100H for about 800 GB from a LaCie 3TB drive plugged into the back. Took about six hours to transfer everything. At present I update my files via 'Connect to Server ...' from my MacBook Pro. Works like a charm.

[biosailor]

Has anyone observed the following issue with the Aurender Conductor app: from time to time when streaming from Qobuz (I have a Qobuz Hi-Fi Sublime+ subscription), the tracks are available, but the track's length is indicated with only 30-40 secs. I then go to 'Settings' and change the subscription to lower resolution, go back to the highest resolution subscription available, and this often, but not always, does the trick to stream the tracks in their original length. My iPad Conductor app is up to date and my iPad runs iOS 11.2.5

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, jon2020 said:

After reading so many rave reviews of the N10, I pounced upon an opportunity to audition one at home over the weekend. I have been most eager to find out if the N10 is worth more than double the price of the N100H.

I have found a way to simply describe digital performance in terms of quantity and quality of information conveyed - more bits filling in the sonic landscape, so to speak. Comparison is as always relative between the components. 

I have been using my N100H connected via an Oyaide silver USB cable from its USB output to the ifi USB 3.0 which separates power from audio via its own bihedral USB cable, and thence to the USB input of an Esoteric N-05 network player/dac.

I first listened to the N10 without the USB 3.0 as this is the way it has been reviewed so favorably in the many publications to date. Without going into every parameter of SQ, all I can say is that the N10 is most certainly worth its weight in gold. There is much greater quantity and quality of digital information served in that one can clearly hear the extra bits filling in the spaces that now seemed missing from the N100H. Enough said. 

I next compared the USB and bnc spdif outputs of the N10 to the Esoteric dac inputs. As a caveat, the bnc cable at the dac end was fitted with an adapter as the input is non-bnc. The USB sounds much better than spdif, again more filled in with extra bits. This simply indicates that the USB implementation is superior to spdif for both server and dac, and should not be extrapolated to a more general conclusion that usb is superior to spdif.

The last experiment would be to see whether the N10 can be improved any further by connecting it to the ifi USB 3.0. Well, the outcome is jaw-dropping to say the least - again, more bits filling in the sonic space, presenting a gestalt that is way more satisfying than the sum of its parts.

As an aside, I recently compared the new Pass XP12 to my Ayre K-5xeMP preamp at home. The overall improvement wrought by the N10 alone far exceeds the improvement that the XP12 brought to the table. So preamp or server upgrade? - the choice is now clear.

 

The nice thing about the N10 together with the iFi  USB 3.0 is that they both bring out what I never thought could be possible from my current system.  It is amazing that a server like the N10 can elevate the whole system by such leaps and bounds.  Once in a while,  one component comes along to show up how good all the others really are.  

 

J.

 

Nice review, thanks so much, as I too, am (was) debating of upgrading from the N100H to the N10. But my decision is a NO, despite the rave reviews the N10 gets. For me, the N10 is way too expensive. Who in the world needs all those extra outputs (SPDIF, etc.) as you so rightly state, is inferior to the USB output.

To me, it would make much more sense to develop the N100 further to have a refined version that puts it bewtween the N10 flagship and the current N100H model. I‘d jump immediately at the occasion of buying an advanced N100H model, as I very much like Aurender. But buying a flagship so expensive as the N10 with outputs I‘ll never use, is not so attractive to me.

It looks as if I‘ll embark on the Innuos Zenith MKII route. Brilliant reviews and no frills equipment!

[biosailor]

2 minutes ago, jon2020 said:

I agree that the price is indeed steep but I am unable to compare it to the Innuos. Good luck with your quest. Would really like to hear your impressions when you get hold of it. Cheers!

Will do that for sure! But it won‘t be tomorrow, as I am upgrading my power amp first before turning to another streamer. Will be around summertime. In the meantime, I am enjoying my N100H, with the ‚nagging‘ feeling all would sound so much better with an N10 ?

[biosailor]

28 minutes ago, Vincent1234 said:

I  do not think this review was meant to give the idea that the other outputs are inferior to USB. As rightly stated it all depends on the combination with your DAC (and on the quality of your cabling!). In this case the DAC likely sounds best via USB. The other connections of the N10 are similarly excellent, as pointed out in several reviews. I can state from my own experience that the N10 is indeed much, much more than an 'N100 with more connections'. It's inherently superior to the N100 due to much more elaborate circuitry and a superior PS. And the W20 is so much better again than the N10. Really..

 

Point well taken! If one happens to have a DAC with SPDIF input, an N10 does come handy. Yet, I'd like to see an N100H with more elaborate circuitry, but only USB output. I'd jump to it immediately, as the price difference to the N10 is just too big (at least for me).

[biosailor]

8 minutes ago, rwwjr44 said:

 

I think an N100H with more elaborate circuitry would probably be equivalent in sound and price to the N10  . When you look at the designs of both units, it seems that they give the best sound at their respective price points. Perhaps the folks at Aurender discovered that making a more elaborate N100 would necessitate additional changes that boost the cost of the final product too much.

 

You're probably right! I just think that the difference between the N100H (2,700 $) versus the N10 (8,000 $) is just too big a step. Shouldn't there be a model in between? I know, there's the A10 in between, but this is not an option for me as I stick to my DAC. I am thinking of upgrading my N100H, but the lofty 8,000 $ is a bit hard to swallow. Again, as eluded to earlier, the Innuos Zenith is in the range of the N100H and I'd like to try it. Maybe it turns out that the Aurender is better than the Innuos??? I must say, I quite like my N100, if only there weren't those raving reviews how much better the N10 is

[biosailor]

2 hours ago, Foxman50 said:

Hi Jon

 

i too have this very weekend updraded from an N100H to the N10.

 

Firstly the size of this thing is immense compared, its like 4 times the size, with a screen you can actually read at distance.

 

Was it worth the outlay from a SQ point, absolutely. Im staggered at what the N10 is doing. Putting detail to one side, the flow of music just sounds so much more musical, more enjoyable.

 

one thing i have to take you to task on is if you feel the USB 3 adds something, which im not sure is possible as its using the same input, then do you not think another player may have provided the sound you want. Maybe i should not make this comment as i have not tried the USB 3 but to me your now hearing the USB 3 over the N10.

 

Oh gosh, you people with your raving N10 reviews! You do make me re-consider of coughing up the money for an N10 ! I am getting weaker the minute!

[biosailor]

1 hour ago, jon2020 said:

Hahaha!

Yoda could have said to you, "Be weak, you will."

 

Might just as well happen (to become weak)!

Just in case: what miracle DAC would suit that extraordinary N10?

[biosailor]

3 minutes ago, rwwjr44 said:

 

 That's the thing about this "hobby". There is always something "better" that you want. Every once in awhile I wonder how much better the W20 is. But unless I come into $$$$s I am very content with my system. Well, perhaps a few tweaks around the edges...

 

That is so true! However, I am a big fan of Aurender's. I switched back and forth between Auralic Aries Mini running with Roon, and whenever I switched back to my N100H, I thought it sounded just right. Auralic has this treble glare, sometimes mixed with a very unpleasant ringing, that is totally absent in the N100H. Beautifully balanced and holographic. NOW, if the N10 is even better, I have no choice than to upgrade. Aurender offers a very convenient one-box solution. I don't like having to reserve a server for Roon, although its library features are way above the Conductor app. But ultimately, the sound is what counts. And in this respect, I very much like Aurender!

I try to get a demo of the N10 at the dealer's where I bought the N100H from. For sure, I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for all the great input!

[biosailor]

2 hours ago, Koso said:

 

I am also big Aurender fan and N100H owner, but it is quite unfair to compare SQ of Auralic Aries Mini to N100H, which is several times more expensive device. Even Auralic Aries femto (which sounds definitely better than Mini) is cheaper. 

However, real Aurender rival today will be Auralic Aries G2, which has great specs and design and according to initial reviews, sound quality is stunning.  I am also considering upgrade from N100H, so Aries G2 (4000€ price range) is hot candidate. N10 is no doubt excelent, but it is over my price limit. As someone wrote before, model between N100H and N10 would be sweet spot for many and clever choice for Aurender.

It is unfair, indeed, to compare the N100H to the Aries Mini! I got it discounted as it was a demo unit. I just wanted to try it out in combination with Roon, but as already mentioned, I thought the setup to be a bit clumsy. I did have the Aries for trial from a local dealer for a few days, though, and yet, I thought the N100H was still more pleasant to listen to. The Aries sounded very clean, but a bit thin. I truly missed the N100‘s bass extension. 

I have not heard the Aries G2 yet, but read good reviews about it. In the same league would be NAD‘s 50.2 streamer.

[biosailor]

7 hours ago, jon2020 said:

Hi Foxman50,

 

I will save you the effort as you have actually delivered me from the trickery of the USB 3.0. One needs to take seriously the words of a fellow audiophile who has likewise invested heavily in an N10 when you made the comment about the USB 3.0. It got me to revisit this issue.

 

Before I got the N10 home, there was nothing else I could compare the N100H to. On its own, the N100H sounded good but adding the USB 3.0 enhanced its dynamics to another level. When I got the N10 home just a few days ago, I listened to a few albums with and without the USB 3.0. And in those few albums, the dynamics of the N10 was also enhanced.

 

But as I listened to more and more albums today, I notice that I have to dial down the volume for many of them. And it dawned upon me that the USB 3.0 was adding gain. I have found that adding gain almost always raises the noise floor. And so it did for both the N100H and N10 but to a more damaging degree for the N10. 

 

But it took the N10's much lower noise floor than the N100H's to expose this trickery of the USB 3.0. And so off it goes, far, far away from the gorgeous looking N10.

 

My apologies to all the USB 3.0 fans out there but I have to call it for what it is. An audiophile lives by his ears, or dies by them and it would be remiss on my part to not report back the truth. 

 

So, many thanks again to you, Foxnan50. 

 

Jon.

 

 

 

 

Jon, sorry for a dumb question, but when you say adding USB 3.0 to the N100H: is there an upgrade available? If so, I presume a USB 3.0 compatible DAC is required, right?

 

[biosailor]

2 hours ago, jon2020 said:

Biosailor,

 

No worries. I was actually referring to the micro iUSB 3.0 from ifi Audio, instead of the usb 3.0 version. So you don't need a dac that is usb 3.0 compatible.

 

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusb3-0/

Wow!!! Wasn't aware of ifi. Sounds great, having 'Fighter jet tech to down USB noise'! Imagine, a jet engine roaring in my listening room to down USB noise

[biosailor]

By the way, does anybody why Aurender has no app for the iPhone and a Mac computer? Just wondering.