Looking for a DAC which excels as a pre-amp

[trappy]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Some have stated apreference but what do you think generally of the DAC / Pre vs. DAC and Preroute? It seems to really divide opinion, I suspect being a computer audio sitemore would lean to the all in one route? My pre-amp is a very capable unit butI really do need a DAC upgrade so not sure if I should just be looking at a DACor if it makes more sense to just get one unit that does it all since it issuch an expanding market.

 

I recently took the pre out of my system and went direct into the amp. Loss = nothing, gain = phenomenal transparency. The big "but" is the DAC needed some time before it hit its stride, and the e22 has a great volume control. That said, the Benchmark and Hegel sounded fine without a pre, although I never tried them with one. Are you wedded to balanced connections because your active speakers require them? You'd have a bit more choice if you didn't need balanced. You could add the exaSound e12, or if you still want a valve in there somewhere, maybe one of the Eastern Electric Minimax DACs. Pretty much everyone I've read that owns a Croft piece loves the sound; don't know if it's the valves or what Glenn does with them, but that particular magic might be hard to reproduce.

[Liam]

The AMR DP-777 is outside your budget but you might come across one s/hand now that the Special Edition version is hitting the market. In some detail it might not meet your strict desires, but not I don't think in any meaningful aspect. The on board pre is strictly analogue and extremely high quality. It has been favourably compared to very highly regarded and expensive standalone ones. I currently use it in conjunction with my AMR AM-777 amplifier, which is switched to stereo power amp duty.

 

AMR have quite a lot of information about the design of the dac on their website.

[Bluedroog]

My speakers, Event Opals accept balanced XLR or unbalanced TRS,I currently use RCA to CLR cables so running unbalanced in to the balancedinput.

I think at some point I’m going to have to borrow some differentgear and try at home.

[Norton]

If you can forego balanced and remote then a Hugo has to be an obvious contender and well within your £2k budget. My local Chord dealer raves about the Hugo directly into active ATCs to great effect. In fact he claims he's successfully fed passive speakers with Hugo alone.

 

But how about another option, using an Oppo105D player via balanced analogue connections straight into your speakers? It would seem to give you everything you want at just over £1k and might also open up more options re streaming than your SBT (i.e. 24/192 and DSD64/128 by network share and (I think now) DLNA) as well as direct USB DAC input. The only downside is, afaik, you cannot use its onboard volume control if playing DSD as DSD (you'd have to opt to convert to PCM), and its DAC won't match up to more expensive standalone units , but it's pretty competitive even as a DAC alone at c.£1k (certainly equal to my old Chord DAC64)

[tz1963]

If you're quick you can get an ex-demo M51 from Sevenoaks on ebay for £899.

[Dreaming Jester]

In fact he claims he's successfully fed passive speakers with Hugo alone.

 

Well, I admit that's something really new Sorry, I don't mean to be rude.

[Norton]

Well, I admit that's something really new Sorry, I don't mean to be rude.

 

In these circumstances I find that's exactly what people mean to be..

[Dreaming Jester]

In these circumstances I find that's exactly what people mean to be..

 

OK, no offense meant. On a more positive note - could you elaborate a bit on this achievement?

[Norton]

OK, no offense meant. On a more positive note - could you elaborate a bit on this achievement?

 

I'm afraid I know nothing more. While it's quite common to dispense with a dedicated preamp these days, the idea that you could leave the power amp out too and just run a Hugo directly via its analogue outs into a pair of passive speakers was a new one for me (although not to you I take it from the above remark). I have no plans to connect my Cornwalls direct to my Hugo, even though as efficient speakers they might be a prime candidate ...

[Dreaming Jester]

I'm afraid I know nothing more. While it's quite common to dispense with a dedicated preamp these days, the idea that you could leave the power amp out too and just run a Hugo directly via its analogue outs into a pair of passive speakers was a new one for me (although not to you I take it from the above remark). I have no plans to connect my Cornwalls direct to my Hugo, even though as efficient speakers they might be a prime candidate ...

 

I'm sure you are aware that passive speakers don't (generally) accept such connections. Whatever it may be, I'm sure it's far from optimal and the Hugo is not intended for such use.

[tranz]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Some have stated apreference but what do you think generally of the DAC / Pre vs. DAC and Preroute? It seems to really divide opinion, I suspect being a computer audio sitemore would lean to the all in one route? My pre-amp is a very capable unit butI really do need a DAC upgrade so not sure if I should just be looking at a DACor if it makes more sense to just get one unit that does it all since it issuch an expanding market.

 

Nothing wrong with skipping a seperate pre, but it depends on the implementation. I would not go for one with digital volume only.

 

There is a convenience factor having a pre/pro if you are using your speakers for home theatre as well.

[Norton]

I'm sure you are aware that passive speakers don't (generally) accept such connections. Whatever it may be, I'm sure it's far from optimal and the Hugo is not intended for such use.

 

Not sure what you mean by "accept such connections" - I believe he just ran normal i/cs with bare wire at speaker, but may be wrong. I think the point he was trying to make is that the Hugo has a healthy enough output as an amp to drive speakers directly.

[Dreaming Jester]

Not sure what you mean by "accept such connections" - I believe he just ran normal i/cs with bare wire at speaker, but may be wrong. I think the point he was trying to make is that the Hugo has a healthy enough output as an amp to drive speakers directly.

 

And this bare wire connects to the Hugo at which output?

[trappy]

And this bare wire connects to the Hugo at which output?

 

There was a guy reported doing this on Headfi. He soldered speaker wire to his ICs, if I recall correctly.

[Dreaming Jester]

There was a guy reported doing this on Headfi. He soldered speaker wire to his ICs, if I recall correctly.

 

OK. We're going a bit off-topic here anyway.

[Norton]

And this bare wire connects to the Hugo at which output?

 

RCA analogue out, what else?

[Sam Lord]

...But how about another option, using an Oppo105D player via balanced analogue connections straight into your speakers? It would seem to give you everything you want at just over £1k and might also open up more options re streaming than your SBT (i.e. 24/192 and DSD64/128 by network share and (I think now) DLNA) as well as direct USB DAC input. The only downside is, afaik, you cannot use its onboard volume control if playing DSD as DSD (you'd have to opt to convert to PCM), and its DAC won't match up to more expensive standalone units , but it's pretty competitive even as a DAC alone at c.£1k (certainly equal to my old Chord DAC64)

 

If the Oppo converts incoming DSD to PCM in order to use its volume control, that's news to me. My 105D sure sounds great when listening via HQPlayer and an SMS100 when they supply DSD128, and I use the Oppo volume control with no outboard preamp. I don't think that Sabre or Oppo have revealed how they implement volume control on the ESS9018 DAC and/or following circuitry, except that they do it very well.

[Norton]

If the Oppo converts incoming DSD to PCM in order to use its volume control, that's news to me. My 105D sure sounds great when listening via HQPlayer and an SMS100 when they supply DSD128, and I use the Oppo volume control with no outboard preamp. I don't think that Sabre or Oppo have revealed how they implement volume control on the ESS9018 DAC and/or following circuitry, except that they do it very well.

 

Yes I could have got this wrong, but as I recall, the manual for my 105EU gave a warning that variable output was not available when playing DSD. Maybe this is something that has been fixed via firmware at some point?

[Sam Lord]

Yes I could have got this wrong, but as I recall, the manual for my 105EU gave a warning that variable output was not available when playing DSD. Maybe this is something that has been fixed via firmware at some point?

 

I don't know about the EU version, just that the US version definitely has very good volume control operable on all formats I've tried. The manual says best sound is achieved within 30dB of maximum, so over 70 on the control. But it's fine below that, though not as good as a good outboard pre at low levels. My default format is DSD128 via a Sonore SMS100 with an async USB connection. I've also played 24/352 months ago using the volume control. ESS DAC folks spoke about volume implementation during a CES once, there's a link somewhere. No problems whatsoever.

[Norton]

Just checked my Oppo manual and I can't see any mention of output being fixed with DSD, so looks like I'm talking rubbish...