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Jockaruba

Upgrade CAPS V3 for upsampling PCM to 2xDSD (DSD128) ?

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Hi all,

 

My caps V3 (great audio pc!) with a DN2800MT Marshalltown Mini-ITX motherboard doesn't have the computing power to upsample PCM to 2xDSD for my TEAC UD-501 DAC.

 

I was wondering if there is a drop in mobo-cpu replacement that will be able to handle the upsampling?

And what sort of computing power is needed?

 

Best regards,

Jock


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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PCM to DSD128 done well is pretty CPU intensive. My quad core i5 3440 ran out of gas and I had to upgrade to a i7 3770 to handle HQ player's Polysinc filter doing 16/44 to DSD 256

 

The Polysinc-2s filter uses much less CPU resources, but it does not sound as good ;-)


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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You can't just replace the CPU: you would need to swap out the motherboard and get a suitable CPU but you will also need a heat sink with fan.

 

To eliminate the fan from a higher powered CPU will require a new case.

 

You may want to look at the CAPSv3 Zuma and Chris's new CAPS articles.


Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Your present CAPS 3 may well be a very good if not superb platform for running HQ Player's NAA, so suggest you do not canibalize it yet

 

If your CAP 3 is running as NAA, then you have a lot of freedom and choices as to what computer you want to run HQ Player Desktop on (Win, MAC or Linux)

 

HQ Player NAA runs no problem in AO's Minimal Server Mode, and only needs a few dll's to run in Core mode

 

You may well have the best sounding NAA hardware / OS combo anywhere ;-)


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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OK thanks, upgrading to i7 level computing power is not feasible.

What is NAA?


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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OK thanks, upgrading to i7 level computing power is not feasible.

What is NAA?

 

HQ Player can operate from one PC which does the computation for PCM to DSD and then feeds the DSD stream via USB to the DAC.

 

HQ Player also functions in a 2 PC setup. The first PC needs to be powerful and does the filtering, format conversion and sigma delta modulation. This HQ Player "Desktop" PC then feeds a digital packet stream over Ethernet to a second lower power PC that runs the "Network Audio Adapter" (also known as the Network Audio Daemon) using a proprietary protocol that seems to work better than UNP or DLNA. The NAA PC is connected to the DAC over USB.

 

the advantage of this 2 PC setup, is that the Powerful Desktop and it's RF emissions are isolated by Ethernet's isolation transformers from the NAA PC which in turn passes on much less RF and ground pane noise to the DAC over USB for dramatically improved sound quality.

 

so just install the NAA on your CAPS (as is, will certainly be powerful enough), and then beg, buy or borrow a powerful MAC or Win 7, 8 or 8.1 machine and install HQ Player Desktop on that machine. The Desktop machine in its settings drop down window will find and show any and all NAA's on the network and make the connection. The author of HQ Player has your DAC, so you can be confident that the TEAC will function with no problems with HQ Player


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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Thank you for taking the time to explain. Very interesting!

What sort of computing power will be needed? I have an amd phenom x2 550 black edition some memory and power supply lying around. Would that give me sufficient performance? Than a new motherboard would be enough.

Are multi core cpu's an advantage? I ask this because I suspect the proces will only use one core so a high clockspeed with a 2 or 4 core could be fine then.

Best regards

Jock


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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One more thing. I have no experience with the hq player. Can you control it by remote like with jremote/gizmo?


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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Unfortunately the AMD Phenom 2 550 has a benchmark score of about 2000 which will not have sufficient processing power to handle PCM to DSD using Polysinc filter. Even with the -2s filter performance may well be borderline. I would suggest only considering CPU's with benchmark scores of 6,000 or better. Quad core definitely works better for HQ Player as it has been written to distribute the load over multiple cores. Math capability and clock speed are important too.

 

HQ Player does not have a remote control app/program, but you can use any of the Windows or MAC OS remote control apps from a tablet to steer HQ Player Desktop. HQ Player has library functions, but I just use drag and drop of folders from a file manger on to the HQ Player Desktop window.

 

The sound quality of the NAA running in WS2012 in minimal server mode is jaw dropping, it will be well worth the time and effort of setting up a big and brutal PC to do the heavy lifting


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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@Jock,

I'm not a DSD guy. If your goal is to feed your DAC with DSD, the hqplayer route using twin pc might be a good way to go.

 

Coming back to your original question: any of the j1900 Bay Trail motherboards will likely be a suitable drop-in replacement of your current mobo.

Do a search on bay trail on this site...

 

Hans


Bits to analog: HP Pro Server [Win10Pro, software raid; Roon Core] -> Metrum Ambre -> BADA [series1]

Analog to speaks: ARC Ref3 -> ARC DS450M's -> Dynaudio C1 Sig's + 2 REL G2's

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Unfortunately the AMD Phenom 2 550 has a benchmark score of about 2000 which will not have sufficient processing power to handle PCM to DSD using Polysinc filter. Even with the -2s filter performance may well be borderline. I would suggest only considering CPU's with benchmark scores of 6,000 or better. Quad core definitely works better for HQ Player as it has been written to distribute the load over multiple cores. Math capability and clock speed are important too.

 

HQ Player does not have a remote control app/program, but you can use any of the Windows or MAC OS remote control apps from a tablet to steer HQ Player Desktop. HQ Player has library functions, but I just use drag and drop of folders from a file manger on to the HQ Player Desktop window.

 

The sound quality of the NAA running in WS2012 in minimal server mode is jaw dropping, it will be well worth the time and effort of setting up a big and brutal PC to do the heavy lifting

 

Very clear so the Phenom is out. Now I now what to look for. I assume you are refering to the Passmark CPU benchmark right?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

 

Thank you!

Jock


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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@Jock,

I'm not a DSD guy. If your goal is to feed your DAC with DSD, the hqplayer route using twin pc might be a good way to go.

 

Coming back to your original question: any of the j1900 Bay Trail motherboards will likely be a suitable drop-in replacement of your current mobo.

Do a search on bay trail on this site...

 

Hans

 

Hi Hans, thank. I was looking at the up-sample possibilities. A friend of mine is considering building a caps like mine so I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

Btw: Jammer dat we hier geen Lowlands hebben haha!

Jock


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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Thinking about the double pc setup possibilities and looking at different CPU's I was wondering:

I am under the impression that there's not a lot of AMD CPU's being used in audio PC's where for instance the FX-6300/6350 series look pretty interesting and affordable. Why is it that AMD in not used that often, or maybe my assumption is wrong?

Jock


Music Server: Caps v3, ssd, ppa usb3 v2 card, external usb hdd, Keces Powersupply,Windows Server 2016, JRiver, audio optimizer. DAC: Teac UD-501. Amplifier: SSE tube amb with Class D L15D Amps for lower frequencies Mini DSP Open Baffle Tangband w8-1808 and double Emminence Alpha15 Cables: Signal Cable USA, Chord silverplus usb.

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Thinking about the double pc setup possibilities and looking at different CPU's I was wondering:

I am under the impression that there's not a lot of AMD CPU's being used in audio PC's where for instance the FX-6300/6350 series look pretty interesting and affordable. Why is it that AMD in not used that often, or maybe my assumption is wrong?

Jock

 

from what I recall, AMD CPU's have a somewhat different implementation of the instruction set. When running HQ Player, AMD is actually a bit faster to set up the filter, but is then somewhat slower at doing the computation. So Intel is probably a better choice for HQ Player, as a similar computation power AMD will run out of breath somewhat earlier and start stuttering.

 

the CPU benchmarks I referred to are PassMark


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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