How does the quality of the DAC in the iPhone 6 compare with the 5?

[burnspbesq]

I have to admit to selling my Pono player when i moved from an iphone 4s to a 6. I found the sound of the iphone 6 Dac to be surprisingly good. I use a decent pair of Shure IEMs that can be pretty revealing. Regarding the apple standard player i have ditched that and use the rather excellent Denon app which i much refer. I really like the Eq in it which can be tailored to suit the source you are using, so Car, Kitchen Bluetooth, Headphone and can hold that preference. It is a really neat feature and sonically very pleasing.

 

The Arcam device looks like a winner, I might quibble that it does not have the standard apple plug out, looks like a USB Micro B, but i will be getting my hands on one in the New Year!

 

One hopes so, but one wonders what engineering compromises were made to hit the GBP 120 price point.

 

As luck would have it, I just upsized to Plus when I upgraded my iPhone 6 to a 6s, so I guess I'm "stuck" with my current LH Labs Geek Out v2+ Infinity.

[JSWolf]

I have a Fiio X3II and an iPhone 6s. The difference is very noticeable. The X3II is just better than the 6s. It's not even close.

[HelpfulDad]

So, I've read this and I'm surprised nobody has said anything.

 

Using the USB connection in a car from the lightning connector IS NOT A DIGITAL AUDIO CONNECTION that uses the car's DAC from a digital stream. Analog audio using the iPhone DAC is presented via the lightning port just as it always has been like on the old iPhone multi-pin connector. I'm not sure, but i believe that the same DAC is used in the iphone both for the headphone jack and the lightning analog audio and difference being a fixed level on the lightning port. If you are hearing some sort of difference between the audio quality on the headphone and the lightning connector it's a result of volume levels or, perhaps a different iPhone DAC. But, t be clear, connecting the lightning port to a car USB connector is an analog, not digital connection. The difference in quality you are hearing is likely subjective and from levels.

 

Hi All,

 

A non audiophile friend recently remarked on the significant improvement in sound he found with his new iPhone 6 over his previous iPhone 5. Does anyone know the quality of the DAC inside the iPhone 6 and whether or not Apple has actually improved it (or the filters or the analogue output) over the iPhone 5?

 

The reason I ask is that I recently replaced the speakers in my car (BMW X3) and included a sub for a very significant increase in sound quality. THE sound quality is further improved when I plug in my existing iPhone 5 into my car AUX input vs using the USB input. i.e. when I use the DAC inside the iPhone 5 the sound is much better than using the car's (BMW X3) preamp/DAC.

 

My iPhone 5's contract has just expired and I am considering purchasing either an iFi NANO or PONO (while still using the AUX input) but would prefer to use the convenience of simply upgrading to an iPhone 6 and just using that alone without the hassle of extra devices or an external DAC.

 

Can anyone please shed some light on the sound quality of the iPhone 6 vs 5 and the quality of the DACs used.

 

Thanks in advance

[Paul R]

So, I've read this and I'm surprised nobody has said anything.

 

Using the USB connection in a car from the lightning connector IS NOT A DIGITAL AUDIO CONNECTION that uses the car's DAC from a digital stream. Analog audio using the iPhone DAC is presented via the lightning port just as it always has been like on the old iPhone multi-pin connector. I'm not sure, but i believe that the same DAC is used in the iphone both for the headphone jack and the lightning analog audio and difference being a fixed level on the lightning port. If you are hearing some sort of difference between the audio quality on the headphone and the lightning connector it's a result of volume levels or, perhaps a different iPhone DAC. But, t be clear, connecting the lightning port to a car USB connector is an analog, not digital connection. The difference in quality you are hearing is likely subjective and from levels.

 

Lightening to USB is most certainly digital output. Where in heaven's name are you reading anything different?

[20hertz]

Just curious, {actually I need a new one } but are the current iPods also good sonically now or are there much better alternatives?

[17629]

Just curious, {actually I need a new one } but are the current iPods also good sonically now or are there much better alternatives?

 

 

I think there are better options. You can get a Samsung phone or tablet for a lot less money. Comparing them side by side for SQ, I like the Samsung products better. I've tried both the current gen iPod's and iPads. But that's not what really sets the 2 apart. Probably the main thing is storage capacity. I have a 10gb Samsung tablet and phone, both with an additional 64gb micro SD card's that sell for about $30 each. Apple doesn't allow for expansion, so you have to settle for whatever it comes with. Second, are your music player options. If there's a good one for Apple, I haven't seen it. Android has several music players that are way better and I believe the most expensive one is around $5. Here's a list of the ones I have: Neutron, PlayerPro, Power Amp, Rockit, N7, EQ Music Player, BlackPlayerEX. All of them are good, but the ones I use the most are PlayerPro and Neutron.

 

I don't know if you can do this with Apple, but you can use the usb connection for other things like charging. Sometimes I use it for external storage, but most of the time its for an AQ Dragonfly.

[HelpfulDad]

While lightning certainly has a digital component, there is also analog audio on it. It is available, certainly, but the majority of interfaces use the analog audio at the lightning port, not the digital. The audio you hear in your car is from the iphone DAC. If you want the digital stream, you would use the camera connector, an app on the phone to process the digital and then an outboard DAC. Do you really think a $79 Belkin Car charger/holder with a 1/4 jack for audio has a DAC built in to it and uses a digital stream from the Lightning port? The iphone has always offered the fixed level analog audio from the lighting and the older multi-pin connector and that is what cars use. Typical of Apple, this isn't documented anywhere because i'm sure they don't feel the need.

[HelpfulDad]

It's a digital connection for metadata and the digital audio could be available, but that's not what cars use. See my previous reply.

Lightening to USB is most certainly digital output. Where in heaven's name are you reading anything different?

[orgel]

It's a digital connection for metadata and the digital audio could be available, but that's not what cars use. See my previous reply.

 

Could you link to a source on this? I'm having trouble getting my head around how analog audio can travel over a (digital) Lightning connection.

 

There've been rumors for a while that Apple might get rid of the headphone jack on iDevices, leaving only the Lightning connector. I don't put much credence in those rumors, but that discussion has centered around how such a change would require either (1) an outboard DAC, or (2) headphones with a built-in DAC.

 

--David

[Paul R]

It's a digital connection for metadata and the digital audio could be available, but that's not what cars use. See my previous reply.

 

I kind of hate to tell you this, but everything save power coming out ot a lightening port is digital. There is no analog audio output on the lightening bus.

 

Now having said that, I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but my Apple docs say the lightening port is both selective and all digital. I have found that to be true in my programming experience.

 

Do you have any docs that say otherwise anywhere?

 

 

[TABLE=class: infobox, width: 100%]

Lightning Connector[TR]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]Top down view of a Lightning cable, showing the 8-pin connector

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Type[/TH]

[TD=colspan: 3]Data and power connector[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Designer[/TH]

[TD=colspan: 3]Apple Inc.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Produced[/TH]

[TD=colspan: 3]2012–present[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Superseded[/TH]

[TD=colspan: 3]30-pin dock connector[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pins[/TH]

[TD=colspan: 3]8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]Receptacle view[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 1[/TH]

[TD]GND[/TD]

[TD]Ground[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 2[/TH]

[TD]L0p[/TD]

[TD]Lane 0 positive[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 3[/TH]

[TD]L0n[/TD]

[TD]Lane 0 negative[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 4[/TH]

[TD]ID0[/TD]

[TD]Identification/control 0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 5[/TH]

[TD]PWR[/TD]

[TD]Power (charger or battery)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 6[/TH]

[TD]L1n[/TD]

[TD]Lane 1 negative[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 7[/TH]

[TD]L1p[/TD]

[TD]Lane 1 positive[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TH]Pin 8[/TH]

[TD]ID1[/TD]

[TD]Identification/control 1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]Lane 0 and 1 may swap in IC of device connector (lanes don't swap if accessory identification chip connect to ID0 pin)[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[HelpfulDad]

No source. As I said in another post, this kind of documentation is difficult to get from Apple. There is no reason why the physical jack can't carry analog as it has the connectors and the balance of the connections are used for digital. The iphone connector has always been both analog and digital. The obvious evidence is that there are very inexpensive devices that you can plug into the iphone that can then be plugged into an audio amplifier. For example, the inexpensive dock that Apples sells that you can stand your iPhone up in.

 

Apple® iPhone 5c Dock | Staples®

 

There is an analog jack on the back of it. This item is 29$ and it's ludicrous to think that there would be a DAC in this little device. It gets the analog audio from the lightning connector. I don't have the pinout for lightning and I doubt Apple would publish it in an obvious place, but there are enough contacts on the connector to handle power, digital, and stereo analog, which is what it does.

 

Could you link to a source on this? I'm having trouble getting my head around how analog audio can travel over a (digital) Lightning connection.

 

There've been rumors for a while that Apple might get rid of the headphone jack on iDevices, leaving only the Lightning connector. I don't put much credence in those rumors, but that discussion has centered around how such a change would require either (1) an outboard DAC, or (2) headphones with a built-in DAC.

 

--David

[HelpfulDad]

I've passed the information along to you all, but if you'd like to keep believing that the inexpensive devices and/or your cars are processing digital streams, go for it. I was helping, but I really don't care if you believe it or not.

 

No source. As I said in another post, this kind of documentation is difficult to get from Apple. There is no reason why the physical jack can't carry analog as it has the connectors and the balance of the connections are used for digital. The iphone connector has always been both analog and digital. The obvious evidence is that there are very inexpensive devices that you can plug into the iphone that can then be plugged into an audio amplifier. For example, the inexpensive dock that Apples sells that you can stand your iPhone up in.

 

Apple® iPhone 5c Dock | Staples®

 

There is an analog jack on the back of it. This item is 29$ and it's ludicrous to think that there would be a DAC in this little device. It gets the analog audio from the lightning connector. I don't have the pinout for lightning and I doubt Apple would publish it in an obvious place, but there are enough contacts on the connector to handle power, digital, and stereo analog, which is what it does.

[orgel]

No source. As I said in another post, this kind of documentation is difficult to get from Apple. There is no reason why the physical jack can't carry analog as it has the connectors and the balance of the connections are used for digital. The iphone connector has always been both analog and digital. The obvious evidence is that there are very inexpensive devices that you can plug into the iphone that can then be plugged into an audio amplifier. For example, the inexpensive dock that Apples sells that you can stand your iPhone up in.

 

Well, you said it was ludicrous to think that a cheap device could contain a DAC, but there are indeed some cheap devices that contain DACs. For example, I have this:

 

https://www.sendstation.com/us/products/pocketdock/lineout-miniusb.html

 

Here are some links for you (but Paul's pin-out is probably the most germane):

 

Apple’s New Lightning Connector: What It Does And Doesn’t Change | TechCrunch

 

5 Lightning headphones to buy when iPhone ditches the 3.5mm jack - Pocket-lint

 

Audeze EL-8 Titanium Closed-Back Lightning Headphones - Apple - Apple

 

--David

[Paul R]

I've passed the information along to you all, but if you'd like to keep believing that the inexpensive devices and/or your cars are processing digital streams, go for it. I was helping, but I really don't care if you believe it or not.

 

Yes, they certainly do have DACs in them. How much do you think a DAC chip costs? Many can be included in a design for less than a dollar. Same as USB chipsets.

[Audio_ELF]

No source. As I said in another post, this kind of documentation is difficult to get from Apple. There is no reason why the physical jack can't carry analog as it has the connectors and the balance of the connections are used for digital. The iphone connector has always been both analog and digital. The obvious evidence is that there are very inexpensive devices that you can plug into the iphone that can then be plugged into an audio amplifier. For example, the inexpensive dock that Apples sells that you can stand your iPhone up in.

 

Apple® iPhone 5c Dock | Staples®

 

There is an analog jack on the back of it. This item is 29$ and it's ludicrous to think that there would be a DAC in this little device. It gets the analog audio from the lightning connector. I don't have the pinout for lightning and I doubt Apple would publish it in an obvious place, but there are enough contacts on the connector to handle power, digital, and stereo analog, which is what it does.

Sorry but you are WRONG.

 

Search for a teardown of the Lightning to 30pin adaptor ... they show there IS a DAC chip. In the case of the "solid" Lightning to 30pin adaptor its a Wolfson WM8533. Now the DAC chip only costs a couple of dollars, but why would it be there if the phone could pass analogue audio?

[17629]

The obvious thing here is not the lightning connector, its the usb connector in the car. That's digital, and has to receive a digital signal. 2 of the conductors are for power (if used), and the other 2 are for digital communication. I don't think you're going to win this one HelpfulDad. The other posters comments are 100% correct.