mayhem13 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 AnandTech | 550W Roundup: Three PSUs at Different Prices Not exactly price competitive with generic ATX supplies but impressive performance for the $$$ when compared to linear solutions IMO. Just installed one in my new audio/video server so I'll report back after evaluating it over time. I do a lot of transcoding at this workstation while listening to a connected desktop system so any apparent improvements should come in the form of reduced audible system noise while the CPU is cranking. I've replaced the wireless controls for now to eliminate as many noise inducing variables as well. Link to comment
tranz Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Very nice ripple and noise stats. I ended up with a Seasonic 520FL recently that has low ripple and noise, but not quite so good as your link. The main reason I ended up with it instead was because it is fanless. Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Seasonic makes excellent units and further into the article, the testers hinted that the 550 is probobly manufactured by them given the layout and components. Link to comment
aps Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Interesting. The other options about which there has been some discussion is Leadex Superflower 750W Gold (see here Super Flower Leadex Gold 750 W Review | techPowerUp) I've been interested in trying these in my A/V HTPC but not sure if the PSU will fit into a Streamcom FC10 case. It'd be interesting to hear how such a solution compares to putting a linear PSU onto a PicoPSU which seems to be the other solution before one goes down the path of individual power supplies for motherboard / ssd / cpu / ram etc. Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Very nice ripple and noise stats. I ended up with a Seasonic 520FL recently that has low ripple and noise, but not quite so good as your link. The main reason I ended up with it instead was because it is fanless. After comparing the Anandtech test measurements to the Linear ATX group buy unit's ripple and regulation, i'm even more impressed with the Antec given the cost ( i paid $78 free shipping). Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 After comparing the Anandtech test measurements to the Linear ATX group buy unit's ripple and regulation, i'm even more impressed with the Antec given the cost ( i paid $78 free shipping). Ripple and regulation isn't the be-all-end-all. Typical SMPS PSUs pollute the AC mains supply far more than a Linear PSU, even a lower current SMPS plugpack can do this too. This has been proven to degrade the performance of many low level devices such as CD players, DACs etc. Even many SMPS PSUs for LED lighting are reported to do the same to low level equipment. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ripple and regulation isn't the be-all-end-all. Typical SMPS PSUs pollute the AC mains supply far more than a Linear PSU, even a lower current SMPS plugpack can do this too. This has been proven to degrade the performance of many low level devices such as CD players, DACs etc. Even many SMPS PSUs for LED lighting are reported to do the same to low level equipment. Alex, please refrain from responding in posts I've started. I fear you may enlist me to respond in a manner not conductive to the CA environment that may result in my banishment. Thank you for your considerations. Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Alex, please refrain from responding in posts I've started. I fear you may enlist me to respond in a manner not conductive to the CA environment that may result in my banishment. Thank you for your considerations. These things are quite measurable. Perhaps you should try it sometime ? I look forward to the weather improving in NYC, so that you can go back to your Sound Reinforcement box building or whatever it is you do. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
tranz Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 There are very few out of the box LPSU ATX solutions out there. You can see how bad the ripple and noise of some of the Teradak group buy solution unit is, some exceeding ATX spec. In that case you are better off filtering that noise going back on the AC line from a good supply like Mayhem13 listed. Cheaper too. But I agree you have to take care of that AC noise with any sensitive or analog equipment sharing the line. Link to comment
Superdad Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 There are very few out of the box LPSU ATX solutions out there. You can see how bad the ripple and noise of some of the Teradak group buy solution unit is, some exceeding ATX spec. Yes, a really good linear with 3-4 rails capable of a whopping (and mostly unnecessary for audio computers) 550W would be BIG and EXPENSIVE! BTW, the lowest noise SMPS units we have found are from Daitron Power - Ultra-Low-Noise Switching PS. But they are not cheap either. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Quote Originally Posted by tranz View Post There are very few out of the box LPSU ATX solutions out there. You can see how bad the ripple and noise of some of the Teradak group buy solution unit is, some exceeding ATX spec. I agree that the specs quoted are certainly nothing to write home about. With a very good Linear PSU you shouldn't even be able to see much more than a thick horizontal line at max. sensitivity with a normal CRO. It seems likely that even a simple LM138/LM338 5-Amp Adjustable Voltage Regulator may do quite a bit better than those quoted specs ? Alex C What are the ripple specs for the JS2 ? Kind Regards Alex K. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
drez Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 the Teradak LPSU's actually have very good ripple specs for the load most users will require (probably less than 6A). Also there will be less noise dumped on the ground. There are some regular switching ATX PSU's with good ripple specs, but this is probably achieved by massive ferrites, which you can note are not used in the Teradak units. one can always add a ferrite to the umbilical cable and push down the noise but IME ferrites are not good... Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The results posted recently in the other thread are still more than 10 x worse than shown in post 60 on P.3 despite the green LED reference voltage modification. They are still quite ordinary. Adding a ferrite to the umbilical cable of the Linear PSU is unlikely to make any real measurable difference with a Linear PSU and it's typical 100/120HZ ripple component. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
drez Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The results posted recently in the other thread are still more than 10 x worse than shown in post 60 on P.3 despite the green LED reference voltage modification. They are still quite ordinary. Adding a ferrite to the umbilical cable of the Linear PSU is unlikely to make any real measurable difference with a Linear PSU and it's typical 100/120HZ ripple component. yeah didn't see that. It is a bit concerning. wonder how a good switch mode supply compares, or even dumb linear solution with the same load. This still is way better than the pico style units people are using. Afaik the next price break with linear atx is the core audio ones right? Link to comment
aps Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This still is way better than the pico style units people are using. Afaik the next price break with linear atx is the core audio ones right? Are you saying that these specifications are a lot better than a) PicoPSU with standard brick power supply or b) PicoPSU with good linear power supply? Link to comment
Hifidelit Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Are you saying that these specifications are a lot better than a) PicoPSU with standard brick power supply or b) PicoPSU with good linear power supply? Different picoPSUs will have different results with whatever they are powered with as the JonnyGuru review showed (in this test smps "bricks"): Clearly, if you can use a +19V power brick with a PicoPSU, use it. You will definitely get better performance in every category. What's ironic is the best performance from a power brick by itself came from the EDAC 120W! Go figure that this ended up being the worse PSU to bundle with a PicoPSU. Pico PSU Round Up Review Ah! Very nice! Everything is improved here. We have much better voltage regulation on all of the rails, including the +12V which only dropped .03%. Efficiency is much better too! Let's see if the ripple still looks good...Nice! Almost all of the ripple is filtered out on all the rails. This is by far the best combination yet. Let's have a look at the next PicoPSU.... Pico PSU Round Up Review Link to comment
Elberoth Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The results posted recently in the other thread are still more than 10 x worse than shown in post 60 on P.3 despite the green LED reference voltage modification. They are still quite ordinary. It seems they were made with MoBo connected, vs resistive load measurements you try to compare them to. Apples to oranges. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/group-buy-full-atx-linear-power-supply-unit-teradak-21810/index12.html#post394228 Adam PC: custom Roon server with Pink Faun Ultra OCXO USB card Digital: Lampizator Horizon DAC Amp: Dan D'Agostino Momentum Stereo Speakers: Magcio M3 Link to comment
drez Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Also depends how much power you need, which pico etc. The ones I was looking at (pico, HDPLEX)for my music server running full power i7 did not look encouraging from the specs, but again I guess it depends how they were tested. Has anyone load tested one of the Pico supplies in the same way as the Teradak has been tested? Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It seems they were made with MoBo connected, vs resistive load measurements you try to compare them to. Apples to oranges. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/group-buy-full-atx-linear-power-supply-unit-teradak-21810/index12.html#post394228 Apples to Oranges ? Not really, as the new measurements into a motherboard after the modifications has shown. A good PSU with a very low output impedance should not be markedly affected like that when connected to a motherboard. The JS2 PSU designed by John Swenson for example, has an optional small PCB (Kelvin Sensor) to maintain it's low noise output by sensing the actual output at the device end of the cable, resulting in a further improvement in voltage stability. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well the new server is up and running with the Antec supply, an Asus MoBo and i5 CPU. We've got an SSD for boot and 4 HDDs for the library. No GPU or anything in the slots, just a clean simple server. I've got a set of NHT zeros and a Krell amp on deck with my ODAC and Benchmark to do some critical listening this weekend. I can certainly say that the on board audio is much better than the previous machine. Whether that's the MoBo or PSU I can't say. I've run the machine with the volume maxed and a pair of JBL monitors with no content playing and have not been able to detect one artifact of system noise while tweeking the OS. Lots of typing, up and downloads, BIOS setup, BD drive ripping.......nothing. A good start! Link to comment
sandyk Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well the new server is up and running with the Antec supply, an Asus MoBo and i5 CPU. We've got an SSD for boot and 4 HDDs for the library. No GPU or anything in the slots, just a clean simple server. I've got a set of NHT zeros and a Krell amp on deck with my ODAC and Benchmark to do some critical listening this weekend. I can certainly say that the on board audio is much better than the previous machine. Whether that's the MoBo or PSU I can't say. I've run the machine with the volume maxed and a pair of JBL monitors with no content playing and have not been able to detect one artifact of system noise while tweeking the OS. Lots of typing, up and downloads, BIOS setup, BD drive ripping.......nothing. A good start! Sounds promising. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
BobSherman Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Alex, please refrain from responding in posts I've started. I fear you may enlist me to respond in a manner not conductive to the CA environment that may result in my banishment. Thank you for your considerations. Did not realize that a discussion of power supplies could generate such powerful emotions... Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 So had a snow day today so moved the server into the main system for some SQ evaluation. As expected, super quiet with no artifacts of system noise audible so far. I'd like to say that the SQ bests my mini but that's probably just a biased response. System fan noise is completely below the ambient noise floor when playing music as well. I'll listen for a few more days before setting it up in the network room ( utility room adjacent to the theater room). Link to comment
BobSherman Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 So had a snow day today so moved the server into the main system for some SQ evaluation. As expected, super quiet with no artifacts of system noise audible so far. I'd like to say that the SQ bests my mini but that's probably just a biased response. System fan noise is completely below the ambient noise floor when playing music as well. I'll listen for a few more days before setting it up in the network room ( utility room adjacent to the theater room). Snow? Link to comment
mayhem13 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 So I've lived with this PSU for a month now and I can recommend it without reservation. No unwanted noise or audible noise, no excessive fan operation, no BSODs or other anomolies. I haven't turned the machine off since install, only sleep and WakeOnLan works each and every time. So those looking for an affordable ATX PSU that measures better than some linear units from a trustworthy brand.......I say yea. Link to comment
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