thotdoc Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 When I Airplay to the Apple TV, what leaves the computer must be analog. If I Airplay to a wifi dac, aren't I still sending analog? Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
Freann Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Don’t fully understand what you are doing, but you are never sending anything analog over Airplay. Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
thotdoc Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Don’t fully understand what you are doing, but you are never sending anything analog over Airplay. First, thank you for responding. So, if I'm sending information to Airplay that is digitalized by the DAC in my PowerBook, then the wifi DAC that Airplay is sending the information to is re-converting what the dac in the laptop sent? Like I said, I'm probably missing something easy or ??? I'm not sure. What I'm trying to do is to increase the quality of the sound in my upstairs system which 1) now uses Mac to Audirvana to Airplay to pre-amp by 2) going to Mac to Audirvana to Airplay to a wifi DAC to pre-amp. So, likely in some mistaken way it seems that if 1) uses the Mac's DAC, so will 2) and the information will be processed twice. Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
Freann Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi thotdoc Still do not follow you... I think you need to describe how the upstairs system and how that is connected to your MBP. Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
jhwalker Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 First, thank you for responding. So, if I'm sending information to Airplay that is digitalized by the DAC in my PowerBook, then the wifi DAC that Airplay is sending the information to is re-converting what the dac in the laptop sent? Like I said, I'm probably missing something easy or ??? I'm not sure. What I'm trying to do is to increase the quality of the sound in my upstairs system which 1) now uses Mac to Audirvana to Airplay to pre-amp by 2) going to Mac to Audirvana to Airplay to a wifi DAC to pre-amp. So, likely in some mistaken way it seems that if 1) uses the Mac's DAC, so will 2) and the information will be processed twice. 1) is incorrect. Data transmitted via AirPlay is digital. My understanding is it will be converted to Apple Lossless at 16/44 for transmission, but conversion to analog only happens at the other end (i.e., in the DAC of the AppleTV). John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
thotdoc Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 That's what I was missing. Thank you. I didn't know there was a DAC in the Apple TV Gordon Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
Freann Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Since the AppleTV has no analoge output i doubt that... Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
jhwalker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Since the AppleTV has no analoge output i doubt that... You're right, of course - whatever device is *downstream* of the AppleTV (fed by the HDMI or optical output from the AppleTV) has the DAC. John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
thotdoc Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 OK then I'm not getting it or not explaining myself well enough. Right now I'm listening to the upstairs system: Retina MBP>iTunes/A+>Air Play-Apple TV hdmi>preamp. This system must rely on the dac in the MBP. My question is?: When I go MBP>iTunes/A+>Air Play-Apple TV>hmdi or optical>DAC>preamp...What is the DAC processing? The analog from the MBP's dac? Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
Freann Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ok, now I understand. Everything is digital until it gets to the preamp where the only dac in the chain is located. The dac in the MBP is not involved in any way. Your question: the dac in the preamp is processing the digital signal send from the AppleTV. The input to the AppleTV is a digital signal via Airplay (over wifi?) from your MBP. How to improve? Try setting upsampling to 24/48 in A+ (even for hires). The issue is that the AppleTV only outputs 24/48 regardless of what it receives. It will up- or down-convert the incoming signal to match. Roon client on iPad/MacBookPro Roon Server & HQPlayer on Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7 with JS-2 LPS-1 & ultraRendu → Lampizator Atlantic → Bent Audio TAP-X → Atma-sphere M60 → Zero autoformers → Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3 Link to comment
thotdoc Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thank you. I'm so used to audio equipment pre-amps, I didn't realize there was an dac in the pre-amp for the audio only. Like I said when I started this, I was missing something basic. Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
PeterSt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thank you. I'm so used to audio equipment pre-amps, I didn't realize there was an dac in the pre-amp for the audio only. Like I said when I started this, I was missing something basic. I'm afraid you still do, but I don't think it is your fault. My question is?: When I go MBP>iTunes/A+>Air Play-Apple TV>hmdi or optical>DAC>preamp...What is the DAC processing? The analog from the MBP's dac? I highlighted your DAC, but you wrote that. So where is your DAC ? well, there. Seems daft, I know ... Anyway, what is the DAC processing ? 24/48. So it takes 24/48 for input (which is output by the AppleTV). If you let A+ resample from whatever the native source is to 24/48 then the AppleTV is not doing any conversions. A+ is now doing it instead, and assumed that that will be for the better ... Your DAC is doing the conversion from digital 24/48 to analogue and your preamp just takes that analogue signal. Unless it is a digital preamp from start to end, but you would know that (must have digital inputs). Sorry for interfering, but I saw this conversation and thought ... prrrt Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Anyway, what is the DAC processing ? 24/48. So it takes 24/48 for input (which is output by the AppleTV).If you let A+ resample from whatever the native source is to 24/48 then the AppleTV is not doing any conversions. A+ is now doing it instead, and assumed that that will be for the better ... Your DAC is doing the conversion from digital 24/48 to analogue and your preamp just takes that analogue signal. Unless it is a digital preamp from start to end, but you would know that (must have digital inputs). Two issues here. Firstly, I believe Apple TVs output at 16/48, not 24/48 (though the original oversight was mentioned earlier in the thread). Secondly, it's slightly more complicated by AirPlay actually streaming ALAC file format fixed at 16/44.1, so potentially another layer of conversion. So possibly, the 'ideal' would be to get A+ to output at 16/44.1 instead, as neither the AirPlay nor the Apple TV function to resample can be avoided. Of course, it's entirely possible that no noticeable differences can be heard with whatever method is used! We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
PeterSt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Firstly, I believe Apple TVs output at 16/48, not 24/48 (though the original oversight was mentioned earlier in the thread). And to that regard I sure copied that (then wrong) data. Sorry ! Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
thotdoc Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 This has been a learning experience. I had no idea the ATV was rendering the signal. I get it to have A+ do that and let the ATV pass it along. Then, what I've been calling a pre-amp (many years of habit) is actually an HT processor, so the Dac in that is the 'dac'. So, in using an outboard DAC I'd use the 'ht bypass' I'd imagine. I'm now thinking of getting a better HT pre-processor with better internal DAC than using an outboard dac...but then upgrading is harder. Under any circumstances I appreciate everyone's input Main: sonicTransporter I5>etherRegen>opticalRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>YGGY Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Hegel 30> Maggie 1.7, REL SE 212: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55" Link to comment
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