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Paul Pang Audio V3 USB Card


nick77

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Admin, i will include support for HQPlayer in core mode with AO 1.31. Release will probably be in March or April, but i expect the first beta to be available very soon. It will make HQPlayer work in core mode, hopefully without the need for any other applications like total commander. I will include shell replacement for HQP and so on. I'll give my best to make HQPlayer a smooth experience in core mode! I heard it first time last night, and i must admit i was deeply impressed. (and it works even in my JPLAY Dual-PC System!)

 

For all interested in PPA articles, check out the reduced prices at our store here -> https://www.highend-audiopc.com/store.html

 

 

Hi Phil, welcome to the world of Jussi's filters and modulators ;-)

 

The $ 64 question is which will work better

 

HQ Player > ASIO output > JPlay - - -CAT 5- - - Jplay (DOP ?) to DSD DAC

 

or

 

HQ Player > NAA output -------- CAT 5 - - - - NAA on WS 2012 +AO > ASIO > native DSD to DSD DAC

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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Phil,

 

Jussi posted these links to two interesting boards that have either micro SD or Compact Flash as storage

 

PC Engines alix3d2 product file

Meet MinnowBoard MAX | minnowboard.org

 

 

SD and CF are supposed to be the lowest noise storage available. The TASCAM DA-3000 recorder (PCM and DSD) got rid of the HDD in the former model and only has SD an CF storage, no hard drive or SSD

 

If could get WS2012 + AO Core mode working on either of those boards in SD or CF, that could make a great low noise front end for a USB DAC that was not sensitive to USB stream timing ;-)

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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Phil,

 

Jussi posted these links to two interesting boards that have either micro SD or Compact Flash as storage

 

PC Engines alix3d2 product file

Meet MinnowBoard MAX | minnowboard.org

 

 

SD and CF are supposed to be the lowest noise storage available. The TASCAM DA-3000 recorder (PCM and DSD) got rid of the HDD in the former model and only has SD an CF storage, no hard drive or SSD

 

If could get WS2012 + AO Core mode working on either of those boards in SD or CF, that could make a great low noise front end for a USB DAC that was not sensitive to USB stream timing ;-)

 

Paul had a CF adapter that some people had been using successfully.

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personally i would never ever offload the whole I/O of an OS onto the USB bus.. the same bus which handles our DAC or DDC. No, i don't think that's a good idea.

ıllıllı [  ...AO 4.00 BETA... ] ıllıllı
____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Shop | Reviews | Reference System | AudiophileOptimizer 3.00 | PDF Guide

 

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The link describes how to create a Virtual Hard Drive on a USB stick ?

 

but is it not a better idea to stay away from USB for OS I/O ?

The usb is only used to create the vhd, everything is loaded into ram hence the name ram disk.

Check out the thread I've posted a few times on here:

Jump start your SSD | Computer Audio | Forum | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows

Quote from Pearse:

Thanks Uli….and many thanks to Horst as it is a really big improvement on my system, its like I just spent 20 or 30K on new Ceramic speakers and some serious DAC and Amplification!!

My MBR OS Drive has a 350Mb recovery partition so maybe this is causing the confusion in MBR Record, either way it is starting reliably now and sounds amazing, hard to stop listening to music sf-smile.gif

It has to be the future for a Music Server.

From Stephan using ram disk with a Pipeline build (bold is mine):

thank you for your excellent description, I have the Pipeline working and I also run WinR2 from memory together with Audiophile Optimizer. Results are stunning.

Stephan

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/c-p-s-v4-pipeline-build-help-needed-22947/index2.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The usb is only used to create the vhd, everything is loaded into ram hence the name ram disk.

Check out the thread I've posted a few times on here:

Jump start your SSD | Computer Audio | Forum | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows

Quote from Pearse:

 

From Stephan using ram disk with a Pipeline build (bold is mine):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/c-p-s-v4-pipeline-build-help-needed-22947/index2.html

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, loading the whole OS into RAM. Conceptually CF SATA would seem to be the more robust way to go, and some what easier to set up, but as to SQ, the only way to find out is to try ;-)

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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Thanks for the clarification, loading the whole OS into RAM. Conceptually CF SATA would seem to be the more robust way to go, and some what easier to set up, but as to SQ, the only way to find out is to try ;-)

If you intend to use CF for your OS spend a lot on industrial grade (even then ....).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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32GB ECC DDR2 for 139.99

 

Komputerbay 32GB (8x 4GB) DDR2 PC2-5300F 667MHz CL5 ECC Fully Buffered FB-DIMM (240 PIN) 32 GB w/ Heatspreaders at Amazon.com

 

How about this guy for under 400 bucks depending on the offer accepted? OCXO mod for this SATA RAM drive would be interesting

 

Acard ANS 9010BA 5 25'' Dynamic SSD SATA x1 RAM Disk RAM Modules not Included | eBay

 

Too bad the DDR-3 flavor would cost 6K or 15K as shown below

 

ALLONE Cloud Disk Drive 101 RAMDisk Review (32GB) - 500K IOPS of DDR3 Storage | The SSD Review

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  • 5 weeks later...

Just getting my feet wet in the world of PC servers, and I am using a CAPS with a V1 card feeding my Zodiac Platinum DAC. I believe the Zodiac Platinum USB works in "iscynronous asynchronous", whatever that means (understand asyn...confused a bit by the isync-async.

 

Anyway...checking out the V3 card with the super clock module. Does anyone know if the upgraded clock would really have value in a DAC that "owns" the clocking from that side? Can anyone comment on the value of a superclock on a USB audio card when using it in this type of setup?

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Just getting my feet wet in the world of PC servers, and I am using a CAPS with a V1 card feeding my Zodiac Platinum DAC. I believe the Zodiac Platinum USB works in "iscynronous asynchronous", whatever that means (understand asyn...confused a bit by the isync-async.

 

Anyway...checking out the V3 card with the super clock module. Does anyone know if the upgraded clock would really have value in a DAC that "owns" the clocking from that side? Can anyone comment on the value of a superclock on a USB audio card when using it in this type of setup?

 

I have the same questions too, and have been unable to find good answers, or answers I find convincing

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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  • 3 weeks later...
This thread suggests that Paul Pang is no longer offering his CF - SATA

SHOPPING AREA: AUDIO GRADE SSD KIT

 

Bump for curiosity if anyone is using the PPS Audio Grade SSD kit? I was considering swaping it in place of an older Samsung SSD but have yet to read any reviews on it. I just noticed there is a newer improvded version with bettter crystal on it.

 

Thx

Kenreau

Synology NAS> Aurender W20> AQ Wel AES/XLR> Devialet 200> AQ Castle Rock Bi-Wire> Vandersteen 5As.

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Just getting my feet wet in the world of PC servers, and I am using a CAPS with a V1 card feeding my Zodiac Platinum DAC. I believe the Zodiac Platinum USB works in "iscynronous asynchronous", whatever that means (understand asyn...confused a bit by the isync-async.

 

Anyway...checking out the V3 card with the super clock module. Does anyone know if the upgraded clock would really have value in a DAC that "owns" the clocking from that side? Can anyone comment on the value of a superclock on a USB audio card when using it in this type of setup?

 

I can't comment on using a super clock for the USB side of things, but I am waiting for the USB Regen device to become available from Uptone audio.

 

As regards the Zodiac Platinum operating Isocronous/Asyncronous i would suggest it operates over USB protocols at both the slower Asynchronous data transfer rate of 1.5 mps and also at the faster Isocronous rate of 12.5 mps

ER / Geisman OXCO / Grimm MU1  / Dutch & Dutch 8C / Townshend Seismic Isolation

 

HP - SMSL Sanskrit 10th A’ , Woo Audio WA5 LE, Hifiman HEK v2

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I can't comment on using a super clock for the USB side of things, but I am waiting for the USB Regen device to become available from Uptone audio.

 

As regards the Zodiac Platinum operating Isocronous/Asyncronous i would suggest it operates over USB protocols at both the slower Asynchronous data transfer rate of 1.5 mps and also at the faster Isocronous rate of 12.5 mps

 

There is some mis-information on USB here. There are four speeds defined for USB, slow speed, full speed, high speed and super speed. All the different modes and protocols will work on any speed.

 

Isochronous is a group of protocols, it literally means constant time. It is used for "streaming" protocols such as audio and video. In isochronous mode time is reserved on the bus for that connection, thus no other connection (such as a disk drive) can use all the bandwidth. In audio there are several protocols used ALL of which are isochronous. The rate of packets is fixed by the speed (1kps for full speed 8kps for high speed), the amount of audio data per packet is varied to get a particular average data rate.

 

The most common audio protocols are adaptive and asynchronous, in adaptive the computer continuously send out packets with a fixed average data rate, the DAC has to adjust it's clock to match. In asynchronous the stream from the computer is exactly the same, BUT there is an extra path from the DAC to the computer, if the average data rate from the computer is too fast the DAC can tell the computer to slightly slow down. (and vice-versa). In this protocol the clock in the DAC is in control. Remember BOTH adaptive and asynchronous protocols use the isochronous mode.

 

All of the above can be used at any speed.

 

I hope that clears up some of the USB terminology.

 

John S.

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There is some mis-information on USB here. There are four speeds defined for USB, slow speed, full speed, high speed and super speed. All the different modes and protocols will work on any speed.

 

Isochronous is a group of protocols, it literally means constant time. It is used for "streaming" protocols such as audio and video. In isochronous mode time is reserved on the bus for that connection, thus no other connection (such as a disk drive) can use all the bandwidth. In audio there are several protocols used ALL of which are isochronous. The rate of packets is fixed by the speed (1kps for full speed 8kps for high speed), the amount of audio data per packet is varied to get a particular average data rate.

 

The most common audio protocols are adaptive and asynchronous, in adaptive the computer continuously send out packets with a fixed average data rate, the DAC has to adjust it's clock to match. In asynchronous the stream from the computer is exactly the same, BUT there is an extra path from the DAC to the computer, if the average data rate from the computer is too fast the DAC can tell the computer to slightly slow down. (and vice-versa). In this protocol the clock in the DAC is in control. Remember BOTH adaptive and asynchronous protocols use the isochronous mode.

 

All of the above can be used at any speed.

 

I hope that clears up some of the USB terminology.

 

John S.

 

John, many thanks for the explanation ! The above was much more informative than the web articles I read.

 

The efforts that Paul Pang goes through to have a super stable clock on the USB data stream, what's your thinking on how that could help the sound quality ?

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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John, many thanks for the explanation ! The above was much more informative than the web articles I read.

 

The efforts that Paul Pang goes through to have a super stable clock on the USB data stream, what's your thinking on how that could help the sound quality ?

 

Unfortunately this is a very complex subject that depends very much on each DACs implementation. I'm right now working on ideas on how different DACs respond to the USB signal, some of which I have already discussed in other posts. There is a lot to this so I'm not going to go into the full details here, other than the one sentence summary: many DACs are quite sensitive to the USB signal quality, the jitter of the signal is one of the important parameters.

 

I personally consider the oven stabilized implementation in the V3 to be over the top, it doesn't hurt, but all my experimentation with my own designs points towards other issues on the board degrade the signal more than the increase in quality from the clock improves it. The oven clock will probably show a slight improvement in SQ in many DACs, but I'm of the opinion that the same money spent on the clock will give more improvement when used on some other areas. It's not that the clock is unimportant, but that the large increase in price to go with the oven clock is not worth it for the gain you get from it.

 

Of course that is just my opinion, I don't have one these and haven't tried making different version with those ideas mentioned above so I don't know for sure.

 

I'm not trying to denigrate the V3 card, it just looks to me like there are some other areas that could be addressed as well as the clock.

 

John S.

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  • 1 year later...

Just installed the v3 card on a windows 10 pro machine. The devicemanagerdoes not recognize the card. I installed the drivers from here:

 

Drivers Download

 

specifically these drivers:

 

NEC uPD720201 & uPD720202 Driver

 

i still cannot get the little yellow triangle to disappear from device manager

 

Error code 10

Win10 PRO->PPANG USB->Gustard X20->Jotunheim->Sanders magtech monoblocks->3.7i

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well, I took the card out and installed it into an x79 motherboard and it showed up right away. So i took it back to the asrock and reinstalled the drivers. It started working. Bizarre. It must have been an electrical connection. Perhaps the contacts needed a little 'scuffing' to get good contact.

 

 

Sounds smoother than the native usb.

Win10 PRO->PPANG USB->Gustard X20->Jotunheim->Sanders magtech monoblocks->3.7i

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  • 2 weeks later...

I figured out the problem! It turns out the power to the USB card has to be on for 10-15 seconds before the pc boots. If the pc is ready before the card can respond to windows enumeration of pci devices, then the identification fails and windows selects the wrong driver to auto install.

Win10 PRO->PPANG USB->Gustard X20->Jotunheim->Sanders magtech monoblocks->3.7i

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I figured out the problem! It turns out the power to the USB card has to be on for 10-15 seconds before the pc boots. If the pc is ready before the card can respond to windows enumeration of pci devices, then the identification fails and windows selects the wrong driver to auto install.

 

Yeah, for when powered by an external PSU at least, my V2 exhibited the same behavior - lost power for a bit, Windows hung, a quick reboot did not show the card, some more fiddling around and the card was recognized upon the next reboot.

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