New DAC from Merging Technologies for Home Audio Market

[dallasjustice]

There's a good writeup about the Merging Hapi in the new SoundonSound. The editor compared it favourably to the focusrite rednet units. It costs a dollar to read the article. I think the article is fully released in a month or so. The measurements are excellent as well. Seems like a good value when compared to the competition.

 

I am still waiting on mine. Once I get it setup, I'll post more about it.

 

Product Review - Merging Hapi

[LewinskiH01]

Very interesting! And timely too. I am about to pull the trigger on a Prism Audio Titan and after reading this I want to consider a Hapi as well. There are so many options, though, that is a bit confusing at first. Please help me understand.

 

My intent is to build an active 4-way system using JRiver as audio player and Acourate to set up digital crossovers and room correction. Then feed 8 channels (digital) to the Hapi and have it directly drive 8 amps. Being able to record with a mic is key to performing measurements with Acourate. Having an outstanding analog section is also critical to drive the amps.

 

How should I configure the Hapi, then?

• AD8D/AD8DP cards seem to be for mics only, so it talks about discrete preamps, but it seems it's only for mic-pres.
  
• DA8/DA8P seem to be what I need for 8-channel DA. The analog out connection ...gone are those audiophile cables I guess . There is no mention about the analog section, which has me wondering if this is really the card I need.
  
• ADA8 I guess does "all of the above" at the expense of sacrificing some on the analog out in dynamic range and THD. But maybe I need this one?
  

 

 

The Hapi base unit is about $2500. Adding a DA8P, at $1700, would add up to $4200, so in the ballpark of the Prism Titan. But it I also need to add a AD8D for an additional $1600, it starts to look uncompetitive price-wise.

 

Very interesting!

[dallasjustice]

I know what you are doing and I've followed your thread on the acourate forum as well. For your project, the Hapi may not be best suited. The Hapi can do everything you want but the Ravenna ASIO is not multi client. Normally, that's not important. But in your case, you will want to measure your final results with REW and compare different filters this way. You won't be able to do that with the Ravenna ASIO. The Lynx Hilo is multiclient and Bob Katz says the Titan is too. There's a workaround ASIO driver from Sterienberg but I've never tried it and have no idea whether it would work with Ravenna ASIO. Most ASIO drivers are not multiclient.

Michael.

 

Very interesting! And timely too. I am about to pull the trigger on a Prism Audio Titan and after reading this I want to consider a Hapi as well. There are so many options, though, that is a bit confusing at first. Please help me understand.

 

My intent is to build an active 4-way system using JRiver as audio player and Acourate to set up digital crossovers and room correction. Then feed 8 channels (digital) to the Hapi and have it directly drive 8 amps. Being able to record with a mic is key to performing measurements with Acourate. Having an outstanding analog section is also critical to drive the amps.

 

How should I configure the Hapi, then?

• AD8D/AD8DP cards seem to be for mics only, so it talks about discrete preamps, but it seems it's only for mic-pres.
  
• DA8/DA8P seem to be what I need for 8-channel DA. The analog out connection ...gone are those audiophile cables I guess . There is no mention about the analog section, which has me wondering if this is really the card I need.
  
• ADA8 I guess does "all of the above" at the expense of sacrificing some on the analog out in dynamic range and THD. But maybe I need this one?
  

 

 

The Hapi base unit is about $2500. Adding a DA8P, at $1700, would add up to $4200, so in the ballpark of the Prism Titan. But it I also need to add a AD8D for an additional $1600, it starts to look uncompetitive price-wise.

 

Very interesting!

[LewinskiH01]

I know what you are doing and I've followed your thread on the acourate forum as well. For your project, the Hapi may not be best suited. The Hapi can do everything you want but the Ravenna ASIO is not multi client. Normally, that's not important. But in your case, you will want to measure your final results with REW and compare different filters this way. You won't be able to do that with the Ravenna ASIO. The Lynx Hilo is multiclient and Bob Katz says the Titan is too. There's a workaround ASIO driver from Sterienberg but I've never tried it and have no idea whether it would work with Ravenna ASIO. Most ASIO drivers are not multiclient.

Michael.

 

Hello Michael. It seems we are following each other! I've been reading through your progress since you had the DEQX. I thought we were going basically after the same thing: active multi-way system with digital XO in Acourate, plus digital room correction. Seems I missed something.

 

Thanks for the input. You probably saved me several months and frustration! What does multi client mean in the context of what I want to do? The Ravenna ASIO driver can only be assigned to work with one software, so if I use JRiver/Acourate I cannot use it with REW?

 

Why did you decide for a Hapi vs a Titan?

 

Thanks!

[dallasjustice]

You weren't mistaken. I have a partially active system using convolution filters in Jriver as well. The difference is that I also have a Lynx Hilo, which IS multiclient capable. I'm not letting the Hilo go, even after I get the Hapi. :-)

 

You may want to use REW to measure you final result. I assume you've used it before. You have to select an output and an input in REW, which should be ASIO. The problem is that the convolution engine resides in another application, Jriver. So you will need to have the mic input set to your device (Hapi, Titan, hilo, whatever) and the output in REW needs to be routed into a convolver, Jriver or Acourate Concolver(I prefer Jriver ASIO line in). Either way, the Convolver must then route the convolved log sweep to the SAME device listed in REW as input. You can see the problem. There are two applications using the same ASIO driver. That's no Bueno for almost all ASIO drivers. The ASIO protocol is designed to lock onto a single app and nothing else. There is a workaround Steinberg offers, but I haven't tried it. So in the end, you'd be better off with a ADC/DAC which has an ASIO driver capable of multiclient so you can measure and compare the final outcome for various crossovers, delays and excess phase windowing and on and on.

Michael.

 

Hello Michael. It seems we are following each other! I've been reading through your progress since you had the DEQX. I thought we were going basically after the same thing: active multi-way system with digital XO in Acourate, plus digital room correction. Seems I missed something.

 

Thanks for the input. You probably saved me several months and frustration! What does multi client mean in the context of what I want to do? The Ravenna ASIO driver can only be assigned to work with one software, so if I use JRiver/Acourate I cannot use it with REW?

 

Why did you decide for a Hapi vs a Titan?

 

Thanks!

[dallasjustice]

I choose the Hapi because I really like the total package. But if I needed a device that has 8 out for a fully active setup, I wouldn't choose the Hapi. Maybe the Titan or two Hilo would be good too.

 

In my setup, I only need 4 out.

[LewinskiH01]

You weren't mistaken. I have a partially active system using convolution filters in Jriver as well. The difference is that I also have a Lynx Hilo, which IS multiclient capable. I'm not letting the Hilo go, even after I get the Hapi. :-)

 

You may want to use REW to measure you final result. I assume you've used it before. You have to select an output and an input in REW, which should be ASIO. The problem is that the convolution engine resides in another application, Jriver. So you will need to have the mic input set to your device (Hapi, Titan, hilo, whatever) and the output in REW needs to be routed into a convolver, Jriver or Acourate Concolver(I prefer Jriver ASIO line in). Either way, the Convolver must then route the convolved log sweep to the SAME device listed in REW as input. You can see the problem. There are two applications using the same ASIO driver. That's no Bueno for almost all ASIO drivers. The ASIO protocol is designed to lock onto a single app and nothing else. There is a workaround Steinberg offers, but I haven't tried it. So in the end, you'd be better off with a ADC/DAC which has an ASIO driver capable of multiclient so you can measure and compare the final outcome for various crossovers, delays and excess phase windowing and on and on.

Michael.

 

I asked Titan Tech Support about being multi-client and here's what they replied:

 

"The Titan comes with WDM and ASIO drivers. WDM is multi-client, ASIO is generally never multi-client. WASAPI and ASIO take full control of the device and so avoiding any sample rate conversion that Windows mixer may apply.

 

Both ASIO and WDM can be used together, and the audio will be output from all applications simultaneously."

 

BTW, using two Hilos was a close second after the Titan, in my book. Too bad the Hapi is not applicable for my needs. Everything I read is quite appealing.

[bmoura]

Only for recording and editing. The price also starts to get steep as soon as you want DSD, for you then need the Mastering Pack option. If you're ever interested in Pyramix functions, the Pyramix Native is the way to go, as opposed to the much more expensive Masscore.

 

The 8 Channel edition of the NADAC looks very interesting. Are they planning a USB input on it, or Ethernet input only?

[Kal Rubinson]

The 8 Channel edition of the NADAC looks very interesting. Are they planning a USB input on it, or Ethernet input only?

 

Ethernet, AES, S/PDIF (optica and coax) plus word-clock inputs.

[One and a half]

From what I can understand from the thread so far, is that (and correct me if I veer too far off the path that way we'll all know)

 

- a commercial media player such as Jriver/HQPlayer/A+? can push the music signal through the network, using the Ravenna protocol over TCP/IP. Although Ravenna is routable over networks, it is not intended to route signals over the Internet, rather to use local area networks such a studio or home environments. Not too sure how ASIO is involved, perhaps at the Player --> ASIO --> Ravenna level?

 

- The timing protocol within the Ravenna protocol can maintain the timing of packets/data from the source to the receiver. This should quieten the discussion of jitter, drift and abberations on Ethernet and the importance of timing should not be understated.

 

- If the media player can send data through the Ravenna protocol, is there a need to write driver software typical for a Windows DAC? If the DAC accepts Ravenna, there should be no special driver software required?

 

The price of the NADAC-2 seems in line with current technology, please note the recent very high gains in the CHF compared to other currencies of late that can cloud the perception of price. To view a more realistic price level, take off 25% of the price just due to currency fluctuations and taxes. I'm warming to the NADAC since it doesn't contain a single tube, and the network streaming methods beat UPNP/DLNA. It also allows imperfect consumer players to interface to the NADAC easy enough, without the complications and limitations of USB, AES3 and (already dead) Thunderbolt.

 

The HP outlet would be used to monitor another stream prior to playing

 

Still.. am looking forward to Emotion player software, it has been a few years(!) which should be bundled free with every NADAC.

[Serge_S]

Does anyone know whether Ravenna supports Linux? Thanks

[Kal Rubinson]

Yup.

[bibo01]

Yup.

 

Sorry, are you saying that the HAPI can be seen/used under Linux? How?

[Hammer]

Nope. I ordered the Hapi yesterday. After I get the Hapi going, I will be saving up for an affordable lower power class A 2CH amp. My YG speakers are 3 way passive and I use a pair of JL subs. Currently, my Audiolense XO setup is a 2 way 2.0 setup to integrate the subs using the AL 2 octave XO.

 

I plan to experimenting with a 4 way 2.0 filter. IOW, I will experiment with a fully active setup. The YG crossovers are easy to disconnect and I still have the plate amps for the woofers which have defeatable crossovers. So, I would only need an additional 2CH amp to drive the tweeters. A fully active system has always been a fascination of mine. However, it's not an urgent need right now. It's nice to have the freedom to do it with the HAPI.

 

Dallas, I've also been think about a fully active system for my YG Anat III's (also because it's so easy to gain access to the drivers) and have been looking at DEQX. I'm sure you are much more up to speed on all the options than I am. Would you mind elaborating a bit on why you settled on the HAPI? Thank you.

 

Hammer

[Kal Rubinson]

Does anyone know whether Ravenna supports Linux? Thanks

 

Yup.

 

Sorry, are you saying that the HAPI can be seen/used under Linux? How?

 

See recap. I was responding to the question of whether Ravenna supports Linux and that is mentioned on the MT website and in the NADAC brochure.

[bmoura]

It's official. The Network Attached Digital to Analog Converter (NADAC) from Merging Technologies will debut at the High End Munich show later this month. It will come in both 2 channel and 8 channel editions. More info is at the NADAC web site which is now live.

 

NADAC | HOME

[One and a half]

The S/PDIF Coax limit of 96/24 is a trifle behind, the AES3 accepts 192, it's just a balun between the two..(shrug) a workaround there.

 

"Music has always been Emotion" - heh, that brings a wry smile. Merging haven't forgotten the promised software, it would make sense to show off the new DAC with a matching software ready to shoot Ravenna. Is Emotion going to be the best kept secret, or another round of 5 years waiting??

 

I want a NADAC. Bypassing USB is the best thing about the NADAC, although others may may complain. The purpose of the NADAC is for deployment anywhere on the network, the sooner we let go of short cabling transmission systems the better. For wireless, another device needed to connect to Ethernet...Quad or DSD128 may be a little difficult (?), would an Airport Express N class or a real wireless router have enough bandwidth and throughput with a tethered Ethernet cable to work for the slower bitrate codecs?

 

Oh, there's a DC voltage input, 10V-14V with a Hirose HR10A-7R-4S connector, the DAC's power is 30W, so we can use a JS-2

Alex C - please make an Oyaide cable to suit, thanks.

[bmoura]

I want a NADAC.

 

Bypassing USB is the best thing about the NADAC, although others may may complain. The purpose of the NADAC is for deployment anywhere on the network, the sooner we let go of short cabling transmission systems the better.

 

For wireless, another device needed to connect to Ethernet...Quad or DSD128 may be a little difficult (?), would an Airport Express N class or a real wireless router have enough bandwidth and throughput with a tethered Ethernet cable to work for the slower bitrate codecs?

 

NADAC offers some intriguing possibilities if it is sitting on the same Ethernet network as your PC and NAS....

 

 

We'll know more later in the month when NADAC is shown at High End Munich and The Show in Newport Beach.

[Nes]

I'm following this closely. The NADAC is top of my list.

[Miska]

Quad or DSD128 may be a little difficult (?), would an Airport Express N class or a real wireless router have enough bandwidth and throughput with a tethered Ethernet cable to work for the slower bitrate codecs?

 

Limitation with Airport Express is that it has only 100 Mbps ethernet, limiting the N/AC class speeds. For faster speeds, you need Airport Extreme that has gigabit ports.

 

But at least on my wireless network and my protocol, stereo DSD256 over WiFi is not a problem.

[One and a half]

Limitation with Airport Express is that it has only 100 Mbps ethernet, limiting the N/AC class speeds. For faster speeds, you need Airport Extreme that has gigabit ports.

 

But at least on my wireless network and my protocol, stereo DSD256 over WiFi is not a problem.

 

Thanks Miska, does HQ Player support Ravenna, if not, can it with some ease? It's not licensed for a fee far as I know. I will asking the same of Damien Plisson, Jriver already supports Ravenna.

[One and a half]

NADAC offers some intriguing possibilities if it is sitting on the same Ethernet network as your PC and NAS....

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18419[/ATTACH]

 

We'll know more later in the month when NADAC is shown at High End Munich and The Show in Newport Beach.

 

The NADAC can't pull content far as I know which is a blessing. The host needs to push to the NADAC, since it's a node on the Ravenna network, the NADAC identifies itself to the host as receptive and away it goes. In theory you could have 30 NADACS on the same network .

 

Are there any software players on a NAS that support Ravenna, I would say they are thin on the ground. This is the first real Ethernet DAC not reliant on USB handshakes or a renderer upstream and DLNA out of the picture (hooray!).

[One and a half]

Thanks Miska, does HQ Player support Ravenna, if not, can it with some ease? It's not licensed for a fee far as I know. I will asking the same of Damien Plisson, Jriver already supports Ravenna.

 

Miska, don't bother answering, Ravenna can use any ASIO or Core Audio application, even iTunes, egad.

[Nes]

Limitation with Airport Express is that it has only 100 Mbps ethernet, limiting the N/AC class speeds. For faster speeds, you need Airport Extreme that has gigabit ports.

 

But at least on my wireless network and my protocol, stereo DSD256 over WiFi is not a problem.

 

I have dropouts using wireless on anything higher than 16bit/44.1kHz. Had to go wired even with an airport extreme in the same room.

[firedog]

This thing pretty much presses all the buttons for me.

 

Remains to be seen how good it will sound compared to other pricey DACs, if the $7500 figure for the 2 Channel version is true. There's some pretty stiff competition out there in the $5-10K (and above) DAC world.