matthias Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A question for Miska: Is it possible to to have HQPlayer in an environment with Ravenna / AES67 to work with Merging DACs? Thanks Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
bibo01 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A question for Miska: Is it possible to to have HQPlayer in an environment with Ravenna / AES67 to work with Merging DACs? Thanks Matt Bruce A. Brown of Puget Sound successfully uses HQPlayer with his Hapi in a Ravenna enviroment. How curious are you? Link to comment
Synfreak Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The 8 channel version would be a perfect fit for my setup. And even more so, if I would be able to use the "Ravenna" network connection. I will definately stay tuned ;-) P.S.: http://nadac.merging.com/ Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000 / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II Link to comment
Miska Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is it possible to to have HQPlayer in an environment with Ravenna / AES67 to work with Merging DACs? Maybe it would be possible. Best if the corresponding vendor would provide ASIO driver... Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
matthias Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Maybe it would be possible. Best if the corresponding vendor would provide ASIO driver... Do you mean Ravenna ASIO drivers? "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Do you mean Ravenna ASIO drivers? The Ravenna ASIO driver has been tested with HQP and Jriver. It works all with Jriver for all SR up to and including DSD256. I know that jussi has confirmed one customer uses a HAPI with HQP and DSD works. I know BB has used his Horus with HQP. So that makes two people who have used HQP with the Ravenna ASIO driver. The driver should be pretty much the same for the NADAC. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
matthias Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Ravenna ASIO driver has been tested with HQP and Jriver. It works all with Jriver for all SR up to and including DSD256. I know that jussi has confirmed one customer uses a HAPI with HQP and DSD works. I know BB has used his Horus with HQP. So that makes two people who have used HQP with the Ravenna ASIO driver. The driver should be pretty much the same for the NADAC. OK, thanks, so I guess all is connected via ethernet. Do you then have similar advantages like the HQPlayer + NAA approach? "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 OK, thanks, so I guess all is connected via ethernet. Do you then have similar advantages like the HQPlayer + NAA approach? You mean does Ravenna ethernet have fewer disadvantages? Yes. :-) THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
matthias Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You mean does Ravenna ethernet have fewer disadvantages? Yes. :-) ....and no more debates about the best USB cables? "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 ....and no more debates about the best USB cables? I can't wait to sell mine. :-) THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You mean does Ravenna ethernet have fewer disadvantages? Yes. :-) What is the Ravenna real time transmission advantage, instead of a asynchronous transmition with a FIFO buffer?? http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 What is the Ravenna real time transmission advantage, instead of a asynchronous transmition with a FIFO buffer?? You are missing or ignoring the whole purpose for an ethernet protocol like Ravenna. You should probably do some reading first. None the marketing romance words matter. This is a bit perfect, no error and no jitter digital transmission. AES67 stuff like Ravenna promises to create way more ambitious highend playback. Think about 5 years from now. Audio at home will require much more. 2 channels won't cut it any more. The best systems will require many more speakers and even more channels. Digital management of all these speakers will be the heart of these systems. This means very tight synchronization among numerous speakers without the need for several hot amplifiers, DACs, lengthy interconnect runs all retrofitted. Ethernet is the best way of making this happen. Face it, USB is ancient history. DLNA was never designed for the future. Here's an example of what I am talking about. Genelec is one of the first speaker manufacturers to understand how tight PTP sync over an AES67 network can work. Here's a video: [video=youtube_share;axBQvTn6dGM] THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
One and a half Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Think about 5 years from now. Audio at home will require much more. 2 channels won't cut it any more. The best systems will require many more speakers and even more channels. Digital management of all these speakers will be the heart of these systems. This means very tight synchronization among numerous speakers without the need for several hot amplifiers, DACs, lengthy interconnect runs all retrofitted. Ethernet is the best way of making this happen. Face it, USB is ancient history. DLNA was never designed for the future. Here's an example of what I am talking about. Genelec is one of the first speaker manufacturers to understand how tight PTP sync over an AES67 network can work. I read today DTS:X is announced at CES2015. 22.2 channels. I agree that to coordinate all these channels at the same time, ethernet is the way to go. Why anybody in their right f*#$^ing mind would want 22.2 channels at home is beyond my thinking, sorry, for 2CH (which is not going to die in a hurry) a simple usb or I2S adaption is far more preferable than an armada of Internet to NAS to Streamer to DAC and at the moment, haphazardly hobbled control software to try and play anything. A PC to a USB DAC managing a small library is what most people are capable of, the HPA-Z1ES is a example of a good start for most people to appreciate Hires Audio. DLNA actually stands for Digital Living Network Alliance, those who invented DLNA, actually don't live with it. Throwing hard core necessary Ethernet network knowledge at everyone is never going to catch on either, let alone all the baggage that's associated with it, and don't forget the 22.2 channels.... AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 I read today DTS:X is announced at CES2015. 22.2 channels. I agree that to coordinate all these channels at the same time, ethernet is the way to go. While Multichannel can be very nice, I'm not sure that 11.1 or 22.2 channels is really needed for home audio. In fact, years ago one of the worst sound demos of all time that I've heard was a demo of 22.2 sound at CES. Ever since, I've put quality ahead of number of channels. Let's hope that Dolby, Aero and DTS keep that in mind as they promote these beyond 7.1 channel systems. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Think about 5 years from now. Audio at home will require much more. 2 channels won't cut it any more. The best systems will require many more speakers and even more channels. Just conceptually, I've always wondered how home reproduction of audio would require more than 8 speakers/channels (thinking in terms of locating any given sound in a 3D space). One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just conceptually, I've always wondered how home reproduction of audio would require more than 8 speakers/channels (thinking in terms of locating any given sound in a 3D space). And whether consumers are willing to buy - and mount - more speakers in their homes. Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 The NADAC is sounding pretty expensive. $7,500 for the 2 Channel Stereo model - no prices yet on the 8 Channel and 16 Channel versions according to AudioStream. Merging Technologies NADAC | AudioStream NADAC - Merging Technologies Link to comment
matthias Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The NADAC is sounding pretty expensive. $7,500 for the 2 Channel Stereo model - no prices yet on the 8 Channel and 16 Channel versions according to AudioStream. Merging Technologies NADAC | AudioStream NADAC - Merging Technologies Yes, it is much more than a Hapi with the 8-Channel-Premium-DSD-DAC card. Audiophiles pay extra. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
ted_b Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I meet with them again today. I will try and clear up whther the $7500 also gets you the 8 channels. More than one person implied that (cuz its just configuration). "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
matthias Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I meet with them again today. I will try and clear up whther the $7500 also gets you the 8 channels. More than one person implied that (cuz its just configuration). Ted, then can you suggest that they do a 2-channel card for Hapi? Cheers Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I meet with them again today. I will try and clear up whther the $7500 also gets you the 8 channels. More than one person implied that (cuz its just configuration). Ted, Thanks for working hard for the rest of us out there in Vegas to get this info. I appreciate that very much. I talked to Dom briefly but the reception was terrible and I know he's super busy so I couldn't have a lengthy conversation with him. So, I am still a little confused regarding NADAC configurations. You implied that DAC chips can be or are "paralleled." I know what that means in terms of board design and I understand the benefits to paralleling chips can result in a lower noise floor. However, I don't really understand whether that's a design feature of the NADAC that is optional at the factory or whether it can be enabled through software. I would greatly appreciate any clarification. My understanding from talking to Dom was that there would be a 2CH version, 8CH version and a 16CH version. Thanks, Michael. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
Miska Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Audio at home will require much more. 2 channels won't cut it any more. The best systems will require many more speakers and even more channels. Digital management of all these speakers will be the heart of these systems. This means very tight synchronization among numerous speakers without the need for several hot amplifiers, DACs, lengthy interconnect runs all retrofitted. Ethernet is the best way of making this happen. Face it, USB is ancient history. DLNA was never designed for the future. Here's an example of what I am talking about. Genelec is one of the first speaker manufacturers to understand how tight PTP sync over an AES67 network can work. Here's a video: In this kind of setup where you have multiple devices tightly synchronizing on network stream you either have to forget asynchronous clocking and stick to slaved PLLs for clocking (AES & S/PDIF style), or alternatively fit all units with an ASRC. It means forgetting about jitter and signal integrity levels of asynchronously clocked systems. So depends on what you want. I rather run one asynchronous networked multichannel DAC and use analog cables to speakers. I never liked active speakers where you have DACs and amps inside the speaker. I find it highly unlikely that I would ever find good DAC, good amp and good speaker in a single box. But anyway, different kind of systems designed for different purposes. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You are missing or ignoring the whole purpose for an ethernet protocol like Ravenna. You should probably do some reading first. None the marketing romance words matter. This is a bit perfect, no error and no jitter digital transmission. AES67 stuff like Ravenna promises to create way more ambitious highend playback. Think about 5 years from now. Audio at home will require much more. 2 channels won't cut it any more. The best systems will require many more speakers and even more channels. Digital management of all these speakers will be the heart of these systems. This means very tight synchronization among numerous speakers without the need for several hot amplifiers, DACs, lengthy interconnect runs all retrofitted. Ethernet is the best way of making this happen. Face it, USB is ancient history. DLNA was never designed for the future. Here's an example of what I am talking about. Genelec is one of the first speaker manufacturers to understand how tight PTP sync over an AES67 network can work. Here's a video: [video=youtube_share;axBQvTn6dGM] Thanks for the video...hope you not get offended with me posting this questions... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
dallasjustice Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Not at all. I'm pretty excited about it, as you can tell. :-) Thanks for the video...hope you not get offended with me posting this questions... THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX Link to comment
TimDH Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Dallas, I always like your posts. By why are you excited about the NADAC when Hapi already exists? Link to comment
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