Please eliminate direct marketing threads and posts!

[hifial]

For your 2 cents....UpTone Audio and Alex and John's recent infomercial style of posting. They're currently marketing products under development here within the context of forum discussion over and over again. The shared experiences of others read no better than late night television ads for diet pills and exercise routines without the before and after pictures.......just the ramblings of cultist type followers. It's shameful and it hurts the credibility of this forum and the hobby.

 

Nothing personal......but it needed to be said. But you knew this already by simply referencing them in your reply prior to me establishing any examples.

 

Barry on the other hand conducts himself with respect for his craft and simply expresses his own personal experiences with a clear disclaimer that your own may be different. His product is purely subjective in that it based in the enjoyment of a performance........that's an entirely different animal than UpTone and similiar electronics firms.

 

mayhem13, John was only one of several that I referenced in my post so your statement that I already knew is incorrect. They all (and others not mentioned as I said) have "products" that are offered, so it could have been anyone.

Also even on Audio Circle OEMs discuss their "products" on the threads and AC is one of the most restrictive. On Audiogon, from what I can tell, as long as an OEM discloses his affiliation he can join in the discussion.

 

While I respect your opinion/how you feel about this, I do disagree with you. Yes, of all of them Alex sometimes has to catch himself and backs off. But I disagree about John and definitely the others I mentioned like Miska (perhaps others I did not mention).

 

May I suggest though that the best place to take your grievance is directly to Chris. It is HIS forum so maybe he will agree with you, then again maybe not.

 

Have a Happy New Year!

[Melvin]

mayhem13 .. almost all the those affiliated with a commercial company who post here have had to check themselves at some point and a bit of latitude is afforded everyone. Personally, I think as long as the "free advertising" doesn't get out of hand, the benefits to forum members is, as gsquared pointedly stated, tremendous. I will say I'm glad you brought up this topic as it serves as a good reminder. Peace. Happy New Year.

[Elberoth]

mayhem13 .. almost all the those affiliated with a commercial company who post here have had to check themselves at some point and a bit of latitude is afforded everyone. Personally, I think as long as the "free advertising" doesn't get out of hand, the benefits to forum members is, as gsquared pointedly stated, tremendous. I will say I'm glad you brought up this topic as it serves as a good reminder. Peace. Happy New Year.

 

+1

[prot]

For your 2 cents....UpTone Audio and Alex and John's recent infomercial style of posting. They're currently marketing products under development here within the context of forum discussion over and over again. The shared experiences of others read no better than late night television ads for diet pills and exercise routines without the before and after pictures.......just the ramblings of cultist type followers. It's shameful and it hurts the credibility of this forum and the hobby.

 

Nothing personal......but it needed to be said. But you knew this already by simply referencing them in your reply prior to me establishing any examples.

 

Barry on the other hand conducts himself with respect for his craft and simply expresses his own personal experiences with a clear disclaimer that your own may be different. His product is purely subjective in that it based in the enjoyment of a performance........that's an entirely different animal than UpTone and similiar electronics firms.

 

I'm usually not for banning/censoring but superdad & swenson's marketing is a bit too thick for my taste too. There are many other vendors around like jriver, miska, peterst, etc but I do not see them plugging their products in almost every post.

I like hearing directly from the vendors but a bit of restraint wont hurt some of them.

[Jud]

As I'm sure many of you know, I consider Alex a friend. That doesn't mean mayhem is wrong about threads containing marketing information. Heck, in one of the forum threads a bunch of us just told Alex what color we'd like for a new potential product of his.

 

Of course many of us are interested in this type of information, and in fact rely on this forum to get news of availability of products we patronize, like Audirvana Plus, HQPlayer, and various hardware items.

 

Other forums use separate topics for these sorts of discussions, something I suggested earlier in the thread. But perhaps there are reasons why Chris hasn't chosen to do this yet, if at all.

 

I think as long as people don't disguise marketing as technical discussion without disclosing their commercial interests, I'm personally OK with it. What I believe mayhem might be objecting to (let me know if I'm not correct here, please) is that the whole area John and Alex are discussing is what mayhem would term the "small signal" side of things - here they are engaged in long discussions of sometimes vanishingly small differences, when big stuff like speakers, room setup and DSP is ignored.

 

I know the importance of speakers, rooms, and DSP. Regarding speakers, I had my last pair for about 25 years, and I'm not looking to change my current pair any quicker than that. Regarding the room, that is already optimized to the degree of my current knowledge in the context of what my wife and I want our main living area (where the system is located) to look like. I am interested in learning more about DSP and follow with interest the discussions under that topic. That pretty well covers the big stuff; what's left are the small things, the little tweaks (and for me, small dollar amounts compared to speaker or room changes) that can occasionally help with our listening pleasure. I enjoy discussing these and learning what's available now or on the near term horizon, including Alex and John's stuff. We know Alex's commercial interest, and he repeatedly discloses John's involvement. So for me personally, and apparently many other folks here, this is OK.

[wwaldmanfan]

I'm usually not for banning/censoring but superdad & swenson's marketing is a bit too thick for my taste too. There are many other vendors around like jriver, miska, peterst, etc but I do not see them plugging their products in almost every post.

I like hearing directly from the vendors but a bit of restraint wont hurt some of them.

 

Why don't you just put the "offenders" on your ignore list, instead of kvetching about them to everyone here. The complaints are more obnoxious than any of the posts in question.

 

Moderator, delete this thread.

[mayhem13]

As I'm sure many of you know, I consider Alex a friend. That doesn't mean mayhem is wrong about threads containing marketing information. Heck, in one of the forum threads a bunch of us just told Alex what color we'd like for a new potential product of his.

 

Of course many of us are interested in this type of information, and in fact rely on this forum to get news of availability of products we patronize, like Audirvana Plus, HQPlayer, and various hardware items.

 

Other forums use separate topics for these sorts of discussions, something I suggested earlier in the thread. But perhaps there are reasons why Chris hasn't chosen to do this yet, if at all.

 

I think as long as people don't disguise marketing as technical discussion without disclosing their commercial interests, I'm personally OK with it. What I believe mayhem might be objecting to (let me know if I'm not correct here, please) is that the whole area John and Alex are discussing is what mayhem would term the "small signal" side of things - here they are engaged in long discussions of sometimes vanishingly small differences, when big stuff like speakers, room setup and DSP is ignored.

 

I know the importance of speakers, rooms, and DSP. Regarding speakers, I had my last pair for about 25 years, and I'm not looking to change my current pair any quicker than that. Regarding the room, that is already optimized to the degree of my current knowledge in the context of what my wife and I want our main living area (where the system is located) to look like. I am interested in learning more about DSP and follow with interest the discussions under that topic. That pretty well covers the big stuff; what's left are the small things, the little tweaks (and for me, small dollar amounts compared to speaker or room changes) that can occasionally help with our listening pleasure. I enjoy discussing these and learning what's available now or on the near term horizon, including Alex and John's stuff. We know Alex's commercial interest, and he repeatedly discloses John's involvement. So for me personally, and apparently many other folks here, this is OK.

 

It's not so much the small signal stuff as the very similiar lack of responsibility in product development and marketing.

[alfe]

I'm usually not for banning/censoring but superdad & swenson's marketing is a bit too thick for my taste too. There are many other vendors around like jriver, miska, peterst, etc but I do not see them plugging their products in almost every post.

I like hearing directly from the vendors but a bit of restraint wont hurt some of them.

 

Troll of the year.

[prot]

Why don't you just put the "offenders" on your ignore list, instead of kvetching about them to everyone here. The complaints are more obnoxious than any of the posts in question.

 

Moderator, delete this thread.

 

Cause I do not put anyone on that list...just dont feel like doin it. As one can easily see above, I have a bunch of fans who auto-answer 'troll' to each of my posts...dont really care.

 

Also, as I hope it's clear from my post above, I'm not advocating any form of censorship...especially for obviously smart ppl like most of the vendors here...just some restraint.

[gsquared]

Why don't you just put the "offenders" on your ignore list, instead of kvetching about them to everyone here. The complaints are more obnoxious than any of the posts in question.

 

Moderator, delete this thread.

 

wwalmanfan, thanks for pointing out the Ignore List feature. I made good use of it I agree, this thread needs to be deleted!

[alfe]

Cause I do not put anyone on that list...just dont feel like doin it. As one can easily see above, I have a bunch of fans who auto-answer 'troll' to each of my posts...dont really care

 

Please accept my apologies, just over reacted to your post.

[goldsdad]

wwalmanfan, thanks for pointing out the Ignore List feature. I made good use of it I agree, this thread needs to be deleted!

 

Why deleted? Can't you just ignore it?

[hifial]

As I'm sure many of you know, I consider Alex a friend. That doesn't mean mayhem is wrong about threads containing marketing information. Heck, in one of the forum threads a bunch of us just told Alex what color we'd like for a new potential product of his.

 

Of course many of us are interested in this type of information, and in fact rely on this forum to get news of availability of products we patronize, like Audirvana Plus, HQPlayer, and various hardware items.

 

Other forums use separate topics for these sorts of discussions, something I suggested earlier in the thread. But perhaps there are reasons why Chris hasn't chosen to do this yet, if at all.

 

I think as long as people don't disguise marketing as technical discussion without disclosing their commercial interests, I'm personally OK with it. What I believe mayhem might be objecting to (let me know if I'm not correct here, please) is that the whole area John and Alex are discussing is what mayhem would term the "small signal" side of things - here they are engaged in long discussions of sometimes vanishingly small differences, when big stuff like speakers, room setup and DSP is ignored.

 

I know the importance of speakers, rooms, and DSP. Regarding speakers, I had my last pair for about 25 years, and I'm not looking to change my current pair any quicker than that. Regarding the room, that is already optimized to the degree of my current knowledge in the context of what my wife and I want our main living area (where the system is located) to look like. I am interested in learning more about DSP and follow with interest the discussions under that topic. That pretty well covers the big stuff; what's left are the small things, the little tweaks (and for me, small dollar amounts compared to speaker or room changes) that can occasionally help with our listening pleasure. I enjoy discussing these and learning what's available now or on the near term horizon, including Alex and John's stuff. We know Alex's commercial interest, and he repeatedly discloses John's involvement. So for me personally, and apparently many other folks here, this is OK.

 

+1

[hifial]

It's not so much the small signal stuff as the very similiar lack of responsibility in product development and marketing.

 

 

Huh?? Sorry don't get it.

[jtwrace]

As the thread starter of the UpTone & Swenson Regen thread I felt as though it was best to actually make a thread about it rather than pollute other threads. I do believe this approach is better than random things within threads that are totally off topic. That's not good either as you wind up with a forum that has multiple threads with random thoughts within the tittle. Not good.

[BobSherman]

I don't know what is the motivation for the OP and if it is related to me or someone else. But here's my view for discussion.

 

I try to not bring in too much about my player software, unless someone asks or specifically talks about it. I hope everybody anyway know how I'm related to it also based on my signature here. I think it's a good practice that Chris demands that such affiliations are stated on the signature. I personally wish there would be more companies participating in discussion of their products, since they have best information and motivations behind their choices.

 

I feel I can more freely talk about my DSC1 DAC design which is under CERN Open Hardware License and I don't get any money from it, although design is badged with my company name and hosted on the same web page (hosting provider), in a way kind of "sponsored" by my company.

 

Your contributions are what is good about this place!

 

Information from truly knowledgeable thinking professionals such as yourself are the lifeblood of a place like this.

 

regards

Bob

[BobSherman]

Let me get this straight. You want the posts written by Alex and John to be "eliminated" because they happen to sell audio hardware that solves problems that many of us here at CA are facing with our computer audio setups?

 

That's like saying if you are a doctor and specialize in treating certain kinds of conditions, you should NOT be permitted to enter an online forum and engage in discussions with people who are suffering from the exact conditions that you are an expert in treating.

 

That ludicrous!

 

I think you are in the minority here if you feel that Alex and John's posts are not legitimate discussions that contain extremely valuable information. I don't know Alex or John personally, but what I do know is they've both invested tens of thousands of hours over decades learning about electronics and have figured out how to solve certain issues in computer audio. They've done the heaving lifting for many of us here in CA. Whether they sell products or not, I want to hear from them anytime they have something valuable to share. And when they do include a mention of a product they are developing... I want to know about that too.

 

Bottom line... I think it would be a TREMENDOUS disservice to the CA community if smart people like Alex and John were not permitted to share their knowledge and experience with the rest of us.

 

+100

[BobSherman]

Alex and John are two of the few posters that give this forum any credibility. Fact.

 

+100

[YashN]

Alex, and especially John (together with PeterSt and Miska and sbgk in my book) have been instrumental in examining, explaining, solving and sharing ideas about phenomena that occur at the bleeding edge of computer audiophilia, many of these are counter-intuitive and cannot be understood by the 'bits are bits' people but make total sense from a Systems Engineering perspective (Network, Computer Hardware, Software Engineering, Electrical Engineering).

 

It looks to me, mayhem13, that you are in the wrong forum if you do not like Computer Audiophilia with its ongoing battles against its own warts. The subject is quite new, and hence there's bound to be new things to learn every day.

 

They have shared their findings freely and no-one is forced to buy into their stuff (ideas or products).

 

Your post below, that I put in italic, says to me that it is your dissenting opinion about what they think, know and perceive (and many of us do as well although we have no business affiliation with them) that prompted you to post.

 

Is it because you don't understand what John Swenson writes?

 

I do.

 

It would be a big loss for CA if people like Superdad (who has posted countless posts detailing his experiments with different setups and the effects on SQ), John (who has made the non-intuitive and formerly unexplainable, rational from a Scientific and Engineering perspective) should be restricted in their postings.

 

On the other hand, it wouldn't be a big loss for CA to lose you, if you really think that "The shared experiences of others read no better than late night television ads for diet pills and exercise routines without the before and after pictures.......just the ramblings of cultist type followers. It's shameful and it hurts the credibility of this forum and the hobby."

For your 2 cents....UpTone Audio and Alex and John's recent infomercial style of posting. They're currently marketing products under development here within the context of forum discussion over and over again. The shared experiences of others read no better than late night television ads for diet pills and exercise routines without the before and after pictures.......just the ramblings of cultist type followers. It's shameful and it hurts the credibility of this forum and the hobby.

 

Nothing personal......but it needed to be said.

[Daudio]

mayhem13

hifial,

 

As usual mayhem13 (Ignored) gets it wrong It is not the fault of the OEM reps, it is the fault of the lack of OEM policy and/or facilities on the CA Forum !

 

 

Also even on Audio Circle OEMs discuss their "products" on the threads and AC is one of the most restrictive. On Audiogon, from what I can tell, as long as an OEM discloses his affiliation he can join in the discussion.

 

The CA Forum needs to grow up and join the ranks of 'professional' forums that properly address forum usage policy's, conflict resolution, and help info, etc.

 

 

Alex sometimes has to catch himself and backs off.

 

From my experience with his 'commercial' postings, he recognized the problem from the start and tried to do the 'right' thing, but aside from a few short posts from Chris C, nothing has happened to clarify the situation, so Alex is still in a tough place as he forges ahead with some innovative and very well received products, without any written policy about OEM postings. What else is he supposed to do ??

 

IMHO the idea of the CA membership having a view, and maybe even some input, into audiophile product development is something very special that should be nurtured and protected, not thrown in the dustbin.

 

 

May I suggest though that the best place to take your grievance is directly to Chris.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Dave

 

 

P.S. I wouldn't bitch if I didn't care...

[mayhem13]

But Bits are in fact Bits.........unless you'd like to be yet another member of the class to explain differently?

 

Here's your moment in the sun....please elaborate?

 

Maybe you'd like to sell me on the virtues of a Pinocchio PSU while you're are it. I'm sure my bits have a yearning to be real bits!

 

I have absolutely no objection to Alex or John posting their thoughts.......but in the same context of explaining the virtues of their products I do object to.

[Daudio]

It would be a big loss for CA if people like Superdad (who has posted countless posts detailing his experiments with different setups and the effects on SQ), John (who has made the non-intuitive and formerly unexplainable, rational from a Scientific and Engineering perspective) should be restricted in their postings.

 

On the other hand, it wouldn't be a big loss for CA to lose you, if you really think that "The shared experiences of others read no better than late night television ads for diet pills and exercise routines without the before and after pictures.......just the ramblings of cultist type followers. It's shameful and it hurts the credibility of this forum and the hobby."

 

+100

[YashN]

Do your own reading about the explanations. Read everything Swenson has ever posted.

 

But Bits are in fact Bits.........unless you'd like to be yet another member of the class to explain differently?

[prot]

Please accept my apologies, just over reacted to your post.

 

No need for apologies, I'm a very 'accepting' guy ... but thank you for the gesture, highly appreciated.

[prot]

...

I have absolutely no objection to Alex or John posting their thoughts.......but in the same context of explaining the virtues of their products I do object to.

 

Pretty much my point too