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Article: PS Audio DirectStream DAC Review


ted_b

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Ted Smith's explanation seems to point to the Rendu (I2S) as being a potentially superior source as far as EMI, RFI etc is concerned.

 

I believe this to be the salient point here. The Rendu Signature has huge attention to detail in the power regulation of discrete circuits to minimise noise and high frequency spuriae contaminating the output signal. Exactly the same principles are employed in the design of the the server I use (Antipodes DX). The Rendu is a streamer and uses I2S output, whereas the Antipodes is a server and uses USB output.

 

I do not doubt that the Rendu and DirectStream play beautifully together. John Darko (of Digital Audio a Review fame) uses similar words to describe his experience with the DirectStream and an Antipodes server.

 

Well done Ted B on a well written and insightful review.

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Al, as I've already posted the USB via my dual pc AO'd setup is very very good, but not the Sig Rendu at I2S for me. Your preference for USB is yours. Also, I thought I made it very clear that I feel that the DS does PCM slightly better than it does DSD. I said it here:

"This DAC is a difficult one to categorize. It is hyper-DSD internally, yet plays back PCM even better than it does DSD."

 

As far as Hugo being a gimmick device, I gotta stop you there. Seriously? I think the Hugo is one of three or four reference-level DACs I've experienced in the past several years, and deserves a place at anyone's home rig (connector hurdles notwithstanding). Is the DS better? Yeah, but not necessarily through all sources, and not anywhere near available at $2300.

 

 

Not sure what is best but going by price I would think my umt plus and it's own signature psu would be just as good as the antipod or sonor.

Any way my point is. The server I use as a reference is as good as it and in some ways better as I can tailor through digital filters the sound signature .

A xion and three dc power supplies were needed to accomplish this task. It allows me to hear chaniges In the digital chain easily.

Not saying your view is wrong or stereo guys either but there comes a point when there is no absolute and just specs do not cut it. And having a transparent chain matter more as this is what we hear .

 

With out getting into complex arguments about inputs. My findings with hdmi were limited to two sources one being the very inferior PWT. And the second the off ramp 5 with it's own psu and all,options. The off ramp ruined the sound of the DS but this setup was a must for the pwd mk2. Even the ap1/pp was not good with the ds . And both the Hugo and DS were not helped with the converters. How ever the servers I have built make very large improvmenus improvements . Along the lines of the umt plus. As this was used to evail my stuff before I built the servers.

Now I am not claiming what you hear is wrong and I know better that's a fools errand but I aM claiming there is no be all in this hobby . Ted we both know this and I have learned much from you and others I have a high regard for.

Tes smith is another man I have a high regard for and as I feel neither the Hugo or DS does DSd well the DS clearly is above the Hugo by a margin . Glad I am not saying this on headfi lmao. The thread would be locked .

I Hope I have made my points.

Al

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So basically with just USB the DAC is actually bad?

 

In my experience. Remember, Ted's is just one context here. I have a DS in my rig for testing right now, I am listening via USB from my custom Sonore server (LiFePO4 battery powered, with a separately filtered and regulated supply feeding a SOtM USB output card), through a Nordost Blue Heaven USB cable. In my system the DS sounds great via USB. As with any DAC, paying attention to the source quality, be it USB, or something else, will pay dividends.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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I might mention that as good as the UPnP/Wavestream route sounds here with the DS/Bridge, there are some annoyances using it as part of a single (desktop) computer audio system (Win 8.1):

 

- music files cut out in foobar - can't tell if it's hiccups in the ISP modem or router line, interaction with computer operations or something about specific files

- audio lag of about 4300 ms - can handle it with foobar and adjust settings with players like VLC, but can't with web video (lag can be a lot longer there)

- can't play two streams (foobar/web) at once temporarily, as I can with USB - the first cuts out and the second either plays or puts out very loud static

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Barrows, yes the USB sounds great in my DS too. It comes from a dual pc setup, with linear power to both pc's, battery powered SSD's and a separate linear powered JCAT USB card (card has dual outputs, one I have config'd as filtered and one I have config'd as unfiltered). I use either the JCAT USB cable or the TotalDAC D1 USB cable, depending on mood and such. The D1 uses its own tethered filter so hence the dual config.

 

After all that work in putting a very tweeked dual pc setup together I still say that the Signature Rendu via an older but nice Nordost Silver Screen HDMI (I2S) is a couple percent blacker and better soundstage solidity and image density. YMMV.

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Barrows, yes the USB sounds great in my DS too. It comes from a dual pc setup, with linear power to both pc's, battery powered SSD's and a separate linear powered JCAT USB card (card has dual outputs, one I have config'd as filtered and one I have config'd as unfiltered). I use either the JCAT USB cable or the TotalDAC D1 USB cable, depending on mood and such. The D1 uses its own tethered filter so hence the dual config.

 

After all that work in putting a very tweeked dual pc setup together I still say that the Signature Rendu via an older but nice Nordost Silver Screen HDMI (I2S) is a couple percent blacker and better soundstage solidity and image density. YMMV.

 

Hey Ted, I have not listened here with Signature Rendu yet, BTW, I have the same, older, Nordost HDMI cable I see in your pics, that thing is a stiff beast! I really would like to try the newer Nordost USB cable, most people seem to find that I2S is fairly cable sensitive, it does make sense as the signal is real time, and waveform fidelity (bandwidth/sheilding) will matter. Anyway, our servers are very different as well, so may sound different, although both are fairly tricked out for low noise on the USB output...

It will be interesting to try the Signature Rendu for me via I2S in my system.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Not sure what is best but going by price I would think my umt plus and it's own signature psu would be just as good as the antipod or sonor.

Any way my point is. The server I use as a reference is as good as it and in some ways better as I can tailor through digital filters the sound signature .

A xion and three dc power supplies were needed to accomplish this task. It allows me to hear chaniges In the digital chain easily.

Not saying your view is wrong or stereo guys either but there comes a point when there is no absolute and just specs do not cut it. And having a transparent chain matter more as this is what we hear .

 

With out getting into complex arguments about inputs. My findings with hdmi were limited to two sources one being the very inferior PWT. And the second the off ramp 5 with it's own psu and all,options. The off ramp ruined the sound of the DS but this setup was a must for the pwd mk2. Even the ap1/pp was not good with the ds . And both the Hugo and DS were not helped with the converters. How ever the servers I have built make very large improvmenus improvements . Along the lines of the umt plus. As this was used to evail my stuff before I built the servers.

Now I am not claiming what you hear is wrong and I know better that's a fools errand but I aM claiming there is no be all in this hobby . Ted we both know this and I have learned much from you and others I have a high regard for.

Tes smith is another man I have a high regard for and as I feel neither the Hugo or DS does DSd well the DS clearly is above the Hugo by a margin . Glad I am not saying this on headfi lmao. The thread would be locked .

I Hope I have made my points.

Al

 

Well has anyone heard the hugo with the Toslink connection. Rob from chord says that is the best connection for Hugo with the right tosklink source. I have a PS transport connected to hugo compared to DS. Yes the DS is more musical but by a small margin when using the right hugo connection (Toslink). The difference is about $1000 in sound quality from hugo to DS and not $3500. I can get much better sound with hugo and extra $3500 to spend on upgrading other components.

on not to mentioned i used the ps Hdmi $800 cable for DS versus the free 1/2 feet toslink cable i used for hugo

 

now if i could find a DS for $3500 i would definitely buy it.

Music after life

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I own a Hugo and have done as rob asked. The difference from my umt plus as a server over optical is marginal over usb not sure what is better. Over all the DS is thicker and more musical. The hugo remains a nice mobile device at best. The DS is below others I have but a true home setup device. The hugo is thin and Brite and further it seems to be voiced Ina high pitch meaning instruments just sound wrong at times. Where the DS and just about any other dac I have sound normal. Now this gets flamed on me but its waht I hear. Maybe some need better stuff to allow for better understanding of what better is.

The DS is a bit warm but songs the pwdmkii. So I guess it's there voicing. For me I like neutral. But the DS has much more meat and details a hard combo to keep. Where the hugo seems detailed but it's just Brite not giving me the musical sound I want.

Again neither dies dsd well something else others will say in wrong. In the end I have my views as we all have

al

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Ted Smith is another man I have a high regard for and as I feel neither the Hugo or DS does DSD well the DS clearly is above the Hugo by a margin.

Al

 

I'd agree. The DirectStream bests the Hugo on DSD sources from the times I've heard the two in action at the audio shows.

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Its been a while since I used the or5. But I thought it played DSd over dop to the DS ? Maybe it's my mistake but I thought it did. I would test it but I loned it to friend.

Lastly for me the OR5 did not help but hurt the sound for me. The same was with my ap1se/pp. as it does do DSd. It took the luster off the top of the sound. A bummer for me.

This is what prompted me to build some servers. For me computer audio is not just about the music or cables. It's more about the computer As a server . it's paramount. I own a MyTek dac and I actually hate the sound of it especially in pcm. But with the server it's sound is very nice. To me it's a shame so many dac makers build very good products but give little support as to what should be used with it. Unless you go to ultra hhiend stuff.

I tip my hat to ps audio for developing the PWT to be used with there dacs.

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I'd agree. The DirectStream bests the Hugo on DSD sources from the times I've heard the two in action at the audio shows.

I think we are all on same page that DS is better. There will always be something better...my big vinyl rig with single side 45 clear classic records will trump all digital. But the question is how much of a difference is the DS versus hugo. I guess it depends a lot on the system and preference. I will say the dS is very musical for a digital player.

Music after life

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I think we are all on same page that DS is better. There will always be something better...my big vinyl rig with single side 45 clear classic records will trump all digital. But the question is how much of a difference is the DS versus hugo. I guess it depends a lot on the system and preference. I will say the dS is very musical for a digital player.

 

NO, he is specifically about DSD here. Hugo converts DSD to 90mhz PCM and then converst to analog, so it does not process DSD natively and AL is contending that gives a worse outcome than DSD on the DStream. DStream with DSD also gets bested by more native "light" DSD processing.

 

Hugo vs DS on PCM is another discussion.

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If you're looking for a musical digital player, don't forget the Lampizators! :)

IMO, Ted's prototype of the DS have a better SAF than the market ready Lampizator versions;)

There is a reason why great efforts were made to get the DS into the PerfectWave chassis' footprint.

They probable sound great, but looks like DIY units. However, I am not saying that good old fashion craftmanship is a bad thing. It might be that the units are more reliable than their visual appearance indicates.

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Audio is about sound. I Personnel do not care if it's a cardboard box. As the DS looks great it's sound is pretty good where as a lampi now looks pretty good but it's sound is way above the DS or hugo. But again this my preference . If a system is hyper detailed and transparent it allows for much of difference between them all. Headphones allow for this.

The vairous pros and cons of the group mentiond here are clearly displayed to my brain in such a setup. After all the hype that Norman had been reading the look on his face was priceless. Of course the biggest change or down grade was with DSd. I know I annoy some in saying but it's just so true. A 500 ifi DSd does better DSd . Then most being talked about. But the lampi is real DSd for sure. Something that rob watts does not be leave in anyway. With the new dsd firmware the DSd for the first time is there . Not great but present. The how and why is not for me it's just the end result I care for. But how anyone feels the hugo is like a DS is just remarkable to me. The difference between them is pretty vast. But hey just because I own them does not mean I am right .

But it does make me a bit of a skeptic to others.

Al

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Ted,

 

I-squared-S is a native connection; by that I mean two things: 1) that both PCM and DSD can be natively streamed, without the need for DoP (DSD over PCM process, which for some odd paths requires wav or FLAC containerizing), so when using Minimserver one needs not do the Dopwav commands if your renderer formerly needed that; 2) it is an unencumbered signal path directly to the Xilinx FPGA Spartan 6. To this day I don't know what jitter sounds like, but as of that special night and going forward, I now think I know what no-jitter sounds like.

 

First I2S is not a native connection. It was never intended to go outside of any devices. It also is best to keep the distance from point A-B to be as small as possible.

 

But here is the big problem with this statement. DSD does NOT work over I2S, it works over DSD which is very different interface. DSD has a DATA-L and a DATA-R and a bit clock. I2S on the other hand multiplexes the L/R data onto one pin and has a Word Clock which differentiates the two from each other as well as a bit clock.

 

Therefore the I2S feed is going through DoP no matter which interface you choose here. Also since the DAC is upsampling, converting whatever, the input jitter is going to have little to no effect on the overall sound. The fixed master clock is going to have the most impact and that is going to be the same no matter what.

 

I think the big problem with reviews of digital equipment is that everything associated with sound is lumped into "jitter". The reason for differing sound in interface types and more goes much further than just jitter. Same reason different applications sound different, even though the bit stream is 100% the same.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

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Gordon, I'd say thanks for the clarification but I know nothing about I2S so I sent the rough draft to Paul, Ted and company, to fact check. No changes to my words/description about I2S or Ted's oversampling into deep space. I did originally state that the top of the case was Lexan; correct to mdf. Complain to them, not me, the author of "the big problem with reviews". I started the review off with my technical caveat (I am not technical; I rely on others). I know that is not an excuse to misinform, hence my reason to send in to the manufacturer for fact checking.

 

I simply said what I heard, and as I said, what I heard "sounded to me" like no jitter. It was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek, for as I said the sentence before that, I don't know what jitter really sounds like. It was a word picture, and the only time I really referenced the J word (other than using Jesus's description of his I2S output). Net/net, I take a little offense that you are saying i lumped all my sound explanations into "jitter".

 

BTW, I used the term "native" simply to describe (later) that the Rendu I2S supports raw (what some call native) DSD output, not just DoP. Ted Smith supports that statement in many posts, and then we later discussed, here on this thread, that the DS finally converts to DoP anyway (which, when I found that out wondered why PS Audio is producing a raw DSD USB driver for distribution). I should have been more specific about what I meant by native. Whatever it is doing, it is, at the end of the path, a better sounding connection than I've heard. I have purposefully not spent a lot of time schilling the Signature Rendu and its quality parts for two reasons: 1) Chris has a full review coming; and 2) this review was about the PS Audio DS.... but maybe I should have. Something is going on here that is very good.

 

Summary, I am reporting what I hear (like varying sq from different inputs, taking cables somewhat out of the equation cuz I use them on all DACs and their varying interfaces, and often don't find these sq differences so evident), and your inference that what I hear is wrong, is ok....it's your quite-educated but nonetheless biased opinion. And I need to remind newer folks that you make and sell a competing set of products. It's not a mistrust comment, just a fact.

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Ted I hear you and agree with your comments. When I bought the off ramp 5 and used it with the pwdmkii and other dacs. I said it sounded much cleaner in sound. As I know less than you I do know well what I like. So better is a personnel choice to a point and beyond that it's a fact. But again it's ours. And may not be everyone's. I like cris products very much and went to servers just before really reading more about his stuff.

I also do think Ted smith to be a very honest sol. Like you maybe it's the name lol.

But he does have a unique view as designer. When I tried my off ramp and it ruined the sound I asked you , him and a few others. The truth is only you gave me an answer that made any sense. As such I do not use it. But some may find what it dies is a benefit.

For me it did darken the back ground but it also took off the luster at the top. Maybe that luster should not be there but I like it so I keep it.

 

al

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But here is the big problem with this statement. DSD does NOT work over I2S, it works over DSD which is very different interface. DSD has a DATA-L and a DATA-R and a bit clock. I2S on the other hand multiplexes the L/R data onto one pin and has a Word Clock which differentiates the two from each other as well as a bit clock.

 

Therefore the I2S feed is going through DoP no matter which interface you choose here. Also since the DAC is upsampling, converting whatever, the input jitter is going to have little to no effect on the overall sound. The fixed master clock is going to have the most impact and that is going to be the same no matter what.

Before the DirectStream the "HDMI/I2S" connectors were used exclusively for I2S on PS Audio products and hence most PS Audio customers think of it as the "I2S" connector. In addition to accepting PCM (and hence DoP) via I2S, the DS also supports raw DSD (Clock, Left Data and Right Data) over the same connection - there's no ambiguity between them.

 

After raw (or native) DSD is received over the I2S (HDMI) connector the DS does convert it to DoP just to take advantage of the already existent DoP path/processing.

 

FWIW Tho in the end the master clock (tho not fixed) is indeed a bigger contributor to output jitter than is input jitter, the key point re input jitter rejection is that there are no PLLs, FLLs, clock recovery etc. that are used to interpret any digital input data - input digital data is recognized via pattern recognition not via processing at clock edges (whether explicit or recovered.)

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The reason for differing sound in interface types and more goes much further than just jitter. Same reason different applications sound different, even though the bit stream is 100% the same.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

 

Would love to read in another thread (or at any links you might care to pass along) more about why different applications (and interface types, for that matter) sound different.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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I simply said what I heard, and as I said, what I heard "sounded to me" like no jitter. It was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek, for as I said the sentence before that, I don't know what jitter really sounds like.

According to my understanding you don't hear jitter directly but rather the consequence of jitter which manifests itself through an analog unharmonic distortion in the frequency domain.

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Before the DirectStream the "HDMI/I2S" connectors were used exclusively for I2S on PS Audio products and hence most PS Audio customers think of it as the "I2S" connector. In addition to accepting PCM (and hence DoP) via I2S, the DS also supports raw DSD (Clock, Left Data and Right Data) over the same connection - there's no ambiguity between them.

 

After raw (or native) DSD is received over the I2S (HDMI) connector the DS does convert it to DoP just to take advantage of the already existent DoP path/processing.

 

FWIW Tho in the end the master clock (tho not fixed) is indeed a bigger contributor to output jitter than is input jitter, the key point re input jitter rejection is that there are no PLLs, FLLs, clock recovery etc. that are used to interpret any digital input data - input digital data is recognized via pattern recognition not via processing at clock edges (whether explicit or recovered.)

 

Ted,

 

Thanks for clarification, sometimes I write to engineers and not to humans :)

 

Gordon

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Would love to read in another thread (or at any links you might care to pass along) more about why different applications (and interface types, for that matter) sound different.

 

Jud,

 

I have talked about this at length on forums and really there needs to be more justification for the findings. In most cases applications that are more clean and take less CPU usage seem to sound better than those who don't. Also programs that take advantage of more memory without crippling the OS seem to sound better. I have the following setup now that I am using to get more information about this sort of differential:

 

MacBook Pro (multi boot OSX/Windows/Linux): USB Analyzer->USB Cable->TEK USB Compliance tester differential probe + I2S decoder->DAC or USB to SPDIF converter-> Prism dScope III

 

I am able to see complete data path before during and after the setup as well as compare the I2S & SPDIF to the source for various applications, cables, do compliance testing etc...

 

Problem is this takes a ton of time.

 

Thanks,

G.

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Ted-S, thanks for the support on that. I didn't think I was going insane (at least not for that reason).

 

Gordon, from one human to another (non) apology accepted.

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