Uptone Audio Regen

[satfrat]

Alright boys, simmer down. I was going to let this pass when it popped up a couple days ago, but now I see I need to set the record straight:

 

I alone chose the Mean Well GS25A07-P1J for inclusion with the REGEN, though early on John did give a nice nod to the Mean Well brand based on his many past, non-audio related experiences with the quality/reliability of their units.

 

I had a bunch of physical, economic, and electrical criteria (likely detailed 15+ pages ago here), and I bought a whole range of available units (both SMPS and LPS of various brands) to test with the REGEN. This one sounded the best to me.

 

(And of course the JS-2 sounds better; though none of the PS units I tried--save for the really nasty one that came with the Geek Pulse--at all got in the way of the REGEN doing its er, REGEN "thing".)

 

iFi clearly has the volume and the channels to go to their Chinese SMPS supplier and specify in some improvements that still fit in the wall-wart form factor. That's great. And I would not be at all surprised if the RENGEN performs a little better with the iPower.

 

John (jexby), I am a bit curious as to where you got yours since while chatting with Rich B. at Signature Sound (NY) last night, he told me that the iFi distributor said that no iPower units were yet "in country." Did you get if from someone in Europe? Which voltage did you get?

 

As for measuring power supplies--and measuring what really matters with respect to what sounds the best (and it is all about noise, it's more about impedance, speed, recovery, and broadband crap)--that is a whole other can of worms. John started talking to me about making a test jig for easy, real world, in-use, under-load test that folks could use at home to actually see a very key performance aspect of any power supply and make comparisons. Only problem is, the comparisons would be valid ONLY at their home since the method has no calibration and any compares between two people would be totally invalid.

 

Ciao,

--Alex

 

Alex, instead of going with an industrial desktop GS25A07-P1J SMPS, did you consider it's medical grade twin, the GSM25B07-P1J or would there have been no difference between the 2? Just curious as I thought medical grade regulated SMPS's were held to a higher standard & with tighter tolerances than their industrial counterparts but when I compared the specs of the two, I couldn't see any differences at all.

 

Thanks,

Robin

[satfrat]

No, it wasn't. Even if it was, do you really think iFi would sell me hundreds of them for a buck or two over their cost? I pay between $11-14 for the Mean Well (plus $2 for the power cord).

 

I suppose if we got into a position to buy 1,000 SMPS units, then John could also spec mods to make an upgraded unit. But frankly we have other, more innovative plans to address a power upgrade for the REGEN. With as many as are selling, don't you think my brain is racing to plan the add-on for it? (Cue the sound of an evil laugh. )

 

If you could come up with an affordable alternative to the Meanwell SMPS, I'd be up for that. But as good as your JS-2 must be, it's simply too expensive for this retiree's limited income.

 

I've got your new website bookmarked and I'm signed up to your newsletter so I'll be looking forward to what you & John come up with.

[satfrat]

Got to ask has anybody found a usb cable shorter than the Regen 6" one? I cant use the 2 " one from Regen on my Benchmark. It interferes with the power plug into the Benchmark. I searched all over couldn't find one.

 

Instead of replacing the USB cable, would a right angle IEC adapter be a better fix? Just a thought,,,

[satfrat]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to try a twisted pair (90 ohm still best) with a shield, but instead of connecting the shield to the USB shells, connect it at both ends just to pin 4, USB ground. That way the ground currents are symmetrical around the D+/D-.

 

Though if you consider it, a shield around a single twisted pair is never evenly spaced. Comes back to wanting a star-quad--just like a good microphone or line-level audio interconnect. I might have to try making a USB cable experiment (as described above) out of some Hovland G3 interconnect I have: Teflon-insulated, silver-plated copper, star-quad with a braided shield. Seems perfect though I bet the impedance is not right.

 

Sounds like this 3 low noise resistor upgrade on the board at $.40 shows more sound quality improvement than going from your stock Mean Well SMPS to a linear PS at the cost of hundreds of dollars. Just another feather in your caps Alex & John.

 

Your Regen continues looking to be the best bang for the buck PC Audio upgrade going today.

 

Your promise and my patience continues,,,,,,,,

 

Robin

[satfrat]

For my Empirical Off Ramp 3 SPDIF output and MHDT Havana dac's digital input, I have implanted WBT silver NextGen RCA sockets to complement my Crystal Cable silver Digital cable with WBT silver NextGen RCA plugs. Less of a crap shoot maybe?

 

Back to this thread; 4 days to go for shipping of the first round of Regens. I've been patiently silent for too long. tehehehehehe

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Pretty wild huh? The sensation of more bass or more bass detail comes courtesy of the resistors added to the ground and shield to make the "amber" version. But don't that that aspect keep you from hearing the "stillness", "effortlessness" and beautifully formed harmonic envelopes of the instruments and vocalists that comes from the REGEN main functioning of improved signal integrity and impedance match.

 

Those with the first 95 "green" units will be in a better position to sort out what the ground resistors did. The whole bass clarity thing is going to knock those people on their butts!

 

Although I am swamped and trying to get out a record number of JS-2 supplies this month as well as 160 or so more REGENs by the end of next week, I am going to take some time this weekend to run the mailing labels for some of the paid-for "amber" upgrade kits--and hope to mail them by mid-week. One of my son's is sitting at the test jig now doing QC function check on 100+ PCBs, freeing up my assembler lady to screw together the aluminum JS-2 chassis parts. Me, I'm doing the harder tasks that no one else can at the moment. Looking to hire another worker too…

 

Thanks everyone,

 

--Alex

 

Hi Alex, just wanted to say your shipping is a class act using 3 day Priority Mail when shipping cross country. From California to Vermont in 3 days, thought that deserved a thataboy!

 

I get mine tomorrow. I'm not only looking forward to the Regen, I'm also looking forward to your expanding on why we should keep the Mean Well SMPS if it gets replaced with a linear PS down the road. Just another good reason to keep lurking here. hahahahaha

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Got my Regen today and had 1 hell of a time getting it to work. I must have rebooted my Win XP a dozen times or more. My system is an old HTPC/ Locus Design Nucleus USB cable/Empirical Off-Ramp 3/Cool Cable gold IC's/MHDT Havana dac. I wanted a direct hookup to the Off-Ramp 3 but never did get the HTPC's Sounds & Audio Devices to recognise the Off-Ramp with the Regen connected to it, either with the adapter or the cable. The ONLY way I could get the Empirical recognised was connecting to the HTPC (on the other end of the Nucleus USB cable. I can't understand what difference is having the Regen connected to either end of the USB cable to get the computer to recognise the Empirical but it is what it is.

 

Then I couldn't get the MC20's JRVAD driver to work using MC20's Empirical Direct Drive output. I kept getting a message saying I needed to use DSD on MC20's Output Format. My Havana doesn't even handle DSD, Mt whole library is 44.1 and it's too late in the day for me with over 15,000 albums downlaoded to change. But after walking away out of frustration from it for a few hours and letting the Regen play on Empirical at the Sounds & Audio Device and Asioforall in the MC20 (which was my old setup before JRiver came out with their own driver this year) I returned and all of a sudden, it's now working with JRVAD and Empirical Direct Drive which I find sounds better than using Asioforall.

 

Well even with the Regen sitting at the beginning of a Nucleus USB cable, 6 feet away from the Off-Ramp 3, the sound is breathtaking I must say. A piece of duct tape got rid of that amber light as the Regen is planted directly in front of my HTPC which sits at the top of a 6 shelf rack. Should have gone with a blue LED Alex,,, just sayin. hahahaha

 

Oh, and Alex, you got a little somethin-somethin' coming to ya in the mail sometime next week,,,, but no 3 day Priority Mail I'm afraid, I'm not quite the class act as yourself. Hope you'll like it as much as I'm lovin' your Regen. SWEET!!!!!

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Hi Robin, do you have special drivers for any of these pieces of equipment? For one device I have I had to reinstall the driver after adding a REGEN to the chain. It seems that the driver found the configuration when it was installed and stored it from then on. Adding the REGEN changed the configuration so it couldn't find the DAC anymore. The only way I could get it to search out the configuration again was to reinstall the driver.

 

Fortunately not many devices do this, but one did.

 

John S.

 

No John, the Off-Ramp 3 USB converter uses no special drivers for Windows, just a plug/play converter. I had no problem with the Win XP picking up the Off-Ramp with the Regen plugged into the computer. But plugging it directly to the Off-Ramp,, nothing. Maybe the Empirical doesn't like the Regen's SMPS generated 5v.(just joking). Fact is Empirical came out with what they call a Short Block which blocks the 5V coming from the USB cable. Wouldn't work with the Off-Ramp 3 as it did the same thing the Regen's doing, hiding the Off-Ramp from the computer.

 

I'm not giving up, tomorrows another day but regardless, I'm loving the Regen as-is. It's like my system is an A-Rod on steroids,,, it's been injected with new life. I'm at 8 hours listening session and still counting.

[satfrat]

Hi Robin, do you have special drivers for any of these pieces of equipment? For one device I have I had to reinstall the driver after adding a REGEN to the chain. It seems that the driver found the configuration when it was installed and stored it from then on. Adding the REGEN changed the configuration so it couldn't find the DAC anymore. The only way I could get it to search out the configuration again was to reinstall the driver.

 

Fortunately not many devices do this, but one did.

 

John S.

 

Well John, wouldn't you know it, the issue was my $1000 Locus Design Nucleus USB cable that was preventing my computer from seeing the Off-Ramp 3 USB converter. Unbelievable. I found a stock USB cable that came with 1 of my external hard drives and the Regen worked just fine going into the Off-Ramp 3.

 

Still, the Regen sounds much better being connected to the HTPC and using the Nucleus USB cable so I'm sticking with that for now.

[satfrat]

I've had the Amber in place for about a week and I don't get what all the fuss is about. Can I get a refund. Ok, I'm kidding. I mean all the positive comments are getting a little boring

 

I can't really add much more to what has already been stated. To me, the bass definition and overall clarity are what stands out. Just terrific. Made up a couple brackets too!

 

Sure puts my stacked rubber/cork blocks to shame.

[satfrat]

Well John, wouldn't you know it, the issue was my $1000 Locus Design Nucleus USB cable that was preventing my computer from seeing the Off-Ramp 3 USB converter. Unbelievable. I found a stock USB cable that came with 1 of my external hard drives and the Regen worked just fine going into the Off-Ramp 3.

 

Still, the Regen sounds much better being connected to the HTPC and using the Nucleus USB cable so I'm sticking with that for now.

 

John & Alex,, Ya'all are gonna love this one. First off I'm 63, my 10 year old HTPC was my first and only computer to date, I knew nothing of computers when I bought this thing and it's been learning things the hard way for the last 10 years. I gave up my CD 6 years ago and have been doing PC audio ever since.

 

Well I've been under the apprehension that I had connectivity issues with my Nucleus USB cable ever since I beta tested it for the late Lee Weiland of Locus Design but it worked where it counted, with my USB converters and I LOVED the sound of this cable so I could live with it's "perceived" issues. Same held true with the Regen as it sounded pretty damn good being connected at the HTPC.....

 

Well tonight I've learned yet another tidbit the hard way. I have 8 USB terminals on my HTPC and evidently since I've been doing PC audio, I've been using a USB port that wasn't Hi-Speed. I'm not certain what the terminology of the USB terminals, 2.0, 2.2, etc but I got this message today, first time I've ever seen it, that I'm using a Hi-Speed Hub that wasn't connected to a Hi-Speed port. Figuring it must be the Regen, I made a switch to an unused port and I must have picked a winner cuz I now have my Regen connected to my Off-Ramp 3 which my computer immediately recognized but the sound,,,, oh my Gawd the sound. I can't begin to compare the sounds of the Regen being placed on the front of the Nucleus USB cable to being correctly connected to the cable's rear, properly attached to the Off Ramp 3 USB converter(but I'll try).

 

REFINEMENT was the first thought that came to my mind. SMOOTH was the second thought. CLARITY was immediately the third. I'm hearing musical nuances I've simply never heard before, even from CD's. The refinement of the Regen being properly positioned has me wondering, maybe this type of refinement is what JS-2 Linear Power Supply owners are experiencing when they replace the Mean Well SMPS??? I dunno.... but I do know what I'm now experiencing is an incredible notch above what I've been mighty happy with since first receiving my Regen and having to connect it to my HTPC inside of my Off-Ramp 3 USB converter.

 

Alex,,,, please read my PM from days ago and respond. I'm feeling I owe John a little somethin'-somethin.

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Considering the positioning most Regen's have behind USB converters/Dac's and being totally out of sight for the most part, I'm surprised anyone would concern themselves with the color of the case or color of the LED light (which I've covered up anyways). It's a non-issue afaic and a waste of money to anyone but those who have money to waste. Now spending money on a linear power supply or future Uptone Audio products (hopefully one in the same), now that's a topic worth talking about.

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Yes but it seems as if Windows find Regen, tryes to "install it" but fails. Then i can't chose my xmos usb as before... I use supra usb cabel, but i can try a nother..

 

 

Try another USB port if you have one. Switching to another USB port on my 12 year old HTPC worked for me when all the time (for years) I was blaming my USB cable.

[satfrat]

Oh no, not at all. You beautiful, beefy, 5+ amp dual-output 5-12V JS-2 is entirely different than the small, 1A, 5/7V single output piece we will be offering for the REGEN and any small 5V devices (SSDs, PCI USB cards, etc.).

 

Just curious, any thoughts on how this add-on would affect video? I have a 5V Mean Well on my Darbee Darblet 5000 which made a huge improvement over the supplied wallwart PS. I'll be trying it on both the Regen and the Darbee, might just need 2.

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

Hi guys, in regards to the "as yet un-named whatever it is" We are trying to get out something with extraordinary performance, for a REGEN, for as little money as possible, in the smallest box, with the shortest development time as we can. Alex convinced me to make it dual voltage, selectable between 5V and 7V at 1A. (I wanted to make it just 7V at 0.5A, which is all the REGEN needs.

 

ANYTHING else is going to significantly increase cost, be much larger, and take way longer to get out to you. This was not designed to be a general purpose, everything to everybody design, but a fairly focused design, that has a little flexibility so it can be used for some other purposes besides a REGEN.

 

ANY changes to this specification at this point is is going cause a LONG delay in getting it out to you. That's just the way it is right now.

 

Alex and I have spent MANY an hour discussing this and have decided that creating a quick to market fairly focused product for the first implementation of this technology is the way to go.

 

You can be SURE that we will be coming up with some more general purpose implementations in the future, but they are just that, in the future. It takes a lot of time to develop a "everything to everybody" product, truthfully we didn't want to wait that long to get something out there with this technology.

 

John S.[/Quote]

 

I'll still take 2 whatshmacallit's as my Darbee Darblet 5000 requires 5v 1a and I'm as much of a videophile as I am an audiophile which equals OVERKILL, aka the backbone of my system.

 

And ASAP as a bonus definitely works for me also.

[satfrat]

A little birdie told me...

 

 

 

Ciao,

--Alex C.

 

tweet f***in' tweet

 

Cheers,

Robin (not so little)

[satfrat]

Received my Regen last Monday, connected it to the system with a Paul Hynes SR3 turned down to 7.5v. Noise level increased compared to what it was before Regen. I thought let it burn for few days. Nothing changed until today while the system was running 24 hours, so I wanted to see what was going on, and connected an Anker 5v battery to Regen and the noise floor dropped, and things started to sound good again.

 

I am using JCat USB card with no power coming to Regen and I have blocked pin 1 on hard adapter, so no power is going to DAC.

 

Anyone tried battery to Regen? I will turn down my Hynes to 5v and see what happens, I do not know it was the voltage or the difference between LPS vs battery.

 

Did you bother to try the Regen with the supplied Mean Well SMPS? If I had encountered what you did with my SR3, that's the first thing I would have done but then again I would have used the SMPS first anyways so to compare the improvement gain when using the Hynes PS with a well broken-in Regen.

 

I have a SR3-12, is there a noticeable voltage adjustment inside that makes for an easy adjustment? I've never opened mine so I don't have a clue but would love to dial mine down to 7.5v just to see what the improvement gain might be.

[satfrat]

The SR5 has a trimpot, accessible if you take off the cover, which gives you something like 1v swing, and the SR3 is probably similar. If you want larger changes it has to go back to Paul, who can do it, but at the cost of smaller o/p current.

However, I'm not sure why you would want to reduce the 12v unless the Regen is getting hot. Some time back John commented that a higher voltage might be beneficial so long as the dac does not take much/any current. For me, 9v from the little Teradak is a lot better than 7.5v from the SMPS, but 12 v from the SR5 is much better again. It's a bit difficult to separate voltage from quality of supply here; the people who can really tell us are the JS2 owners.

 

My Empirical Off-Ramp 3 does draw current so no way will I use a 12v PS, 9v maybe. I sent Paul Hynes an email so I should find out real soon about the SR3. Considering tho that I'm loving the Regen's performance with the Mean Well SMPS, using a linear PS is more out of my own curiosity than it is necessary.

 

Thanks for the info.

[satfrat]

How are you changing the o/p volts on the Hynes? Is this a special SR3? When I had one a couple of years back, there was only about 1v variation on a 15v output.

 

Paul Hynes contacted me today and in his words,

There is an adjustment potentiometer in the SR3 that can be used for adjusting the output over a few volts range to allow reasonably precise settings, however the potentiometer I fit in the SR3-12 would only allow you to adjust to around 10.2v at the low end.

 

I won't be touching mine and will be leaving my SR3-12 on my Off-Ramp 3 USB converter. I'll wait for the Mean Well add-on PS (unless I can get a linear PS cheaper). Cost effective is a necessity which was why the Regen was so attractive to begin with.

[satfrat]

I wonder if those could cause a problem with the LED overheating...

 

I've been using LightDims for years on all my bright LED's and I have yet to have an LED burn out as LED's are a cool running light source. I highly recommend them and use them from LED's to my digital alarm clock next to my bed.

 

LightDims: Dim Led Lights, Halos Around Lights For Light Sensitive Eyes!

[satfrat]

Many thanks for the tip!

 

These LEDs do not let me sleep in peace, they are everywhere like a plague

 

Roch

 

That's what's so nice about Light Dims, all the different sizes. I too was being driven crazy over an alarm clock that lit up the whole bedroom when I desire a dark room. Before Light Dims, I threw a handkerchief over the damn thing. Now I'm using Light Dims over every LED and digital display in the house. I'm all about ambient light, sorta anal about it.

 

But with the usual placement of the Regen being behind a USB converter/dac, it's really a nonissue for most people including myself.

[satfrat]

After I had experimented with various power supply alternatives for the Regen and stopped at the SBOOSTER BOTW P&P 6V (at least until the Uptone mystery PS is unveiled), the rather obvious thought that the solid adaptor between Regen and DAC is a serious handicap began to gnaw at me.

 

I replaced it with various USB cables that I had lying around: Furutech GT2, Wireworld Starlight 7, Locus Design Nucleus, Revelation Audio Prophecy Cryo Silver Reference, Light Harmonic Lightspeed, most of which made a worthwhile improvement, but not a giant leap forward.

 

When I saw the above note about the Aqvox ultra-short USB cable (available as 12, 15, 20, 25 or 30 cm at the same price, 132 Euro), I decided to wait a couple of weeks to see if anyone else would give it a try. Nothing happened, so I thought, why not?

 

I am a long-time satisfied user of their 5V USB power units and the ultra-shorty ticks all the right boxes: 90 Ohm impedance-corrected, solid metal USB connectors, 24 karat gold-plated contacts, silver solder, Oxygen-Free Copper conductors, double shielding optimized for low inductance and capacitance, no ferrite elements, gas-filled insulation for improved damping,...

 

I am going to try to curb my enthusiasm, but damnit, this 4.7" connection makes a huge difference as a replacement for the adaptor. Mainly, it seems as if the noise floor has dropped further, revealing more micro-detail at extreme low levels.

 

Fade-outs now last longer before disappearing below the noise threshold. The halo of ambient space around voices and instruments is more readily apparent, enriching the size and solidity of the soundscape. What we way back in the 80's described as intertransient silence is now blacker and deeper, allowing the leading edges of transients to rise up faster, cleaner and sharper. Background instruments and voices are clearer and distinctly positioned.

 

I am in no position to say whether the inprovement is a consequence of the length or the impedance correction, but the result is simply more music for very little money.

 

(I have no affiliation whatsoever with Aqvox, except as a satisfied customer.)

 

Hey Al, providing a link to this replacement USB cable for the solid adapter would have been a nice touch. Other than that, a very nice read and a nice array of USB cables you have here in the closet. I feel fortunate just to have the Nucleus cable myself. I'll have to Google Aqvox once my SS check arrives. Thanks for the informative tip!

 

Cheers,

Robin

[satfrat]

best USB cable, USB cable, USBcable, USB, cable - AQVOX Audio Devices

 

Hi Robin,

The link is right there in the quote. Of course, the tip is for those like myself for whom assembling a DIY USB cable is not an option.

 

Al J

 

 

Much appreciated,, looks like it's not available in the US and it's really not all that cheap either for a 4.7" shortie. I'll stick with the solid adapter for the time being seeing as DIY isn't in my DNA either.

[satfrat]

Don't you just hate FLA's*! What is an "AQJB" for those of us joining late?

 

 

 

3 more whats? AQJBs, I assume.

 

 

* Four Letter Acronyms :-)

 

AudioQuest JitterBugs (in case it needs further explanation)

[satfrat]

He can't hear differences in his own studio but two other people he invited did.

 

He might need to retire from his business.

 

Are you so obstinate not to accept the fact that the Regen isn't desired in every single instance by every single audiophile? I know quite a few folks who didn't prefer the Regen in their system, they've tried it, didn't like it and that's their opinion which I can respect as it was made after actual use of the Regen. Now those who make assumptions not based from actual experience but their superior intelligence, that's all together another example of obstinate behavior.

 

Bottomline, the Regen does wonders for my system, even on mediocre recordings and that's really all I care about. I have no desire to badmouth those who publically think different drawn from personal experience as they are entitled to their opinion as to what they like or dislike out of their own system. I'm not that petty of a person.