Pono Music Software

[Jud]

Before discussing thoughts about the PonoMusic World (PMW) software, a workaround/tip regarding the AIFF bug in Pono firmware that remains as of version 1.0.4. (The bug is failure to show on the player screen many AIFF files that have been transferred to the player. Please note that the firmware is *not* coded by JRiver.)

 

- You can get all your AIFF files to show up properly in the player in one of two ways: (1) just rename the file extension from .aiff to .aif or (2) convert to flac.

 

OK, thoughts regarding the PMW software:

 

- I've timed adding files to the player on a Mac by just dragging and dropping onto the PonoPlayer icon, versus adding them in PMW. On my system (2009 MacBook Pro) drag and drop is about 3 times faster, i.e., files take about 1/3 the time to completely copy to the player via drag and drop versus using PMW.

 

- If I use the PMW software, the files (taken from the external HDD where my music is stored) are synced (copied) to my computer under my /Music directory as well as to the player. I don't want them there, so this leaves me with some cleanup to do versus drag and drop. I assume this also is responsible for some or all of the time difference in moving files to the player using PMW versus drag and drop. It's not immediately/intuitively obvious to me how to shut off syncing to my computer, if it can be done.

 

- Visuals: (1) Moving music to the player involves glancing between a main window listing tracks, a smaller window on the lower left showing what's going on with the player, and a menu at the top of the PMW page where syncing a folder/album to the player is kind of buried under Tools -> Library Tools -> Sync (with a radio button "a single folder" highlighted) - this is as nearly as I can recall, not being at home presently. There is no selection to move multiple folder/albums at once. That can only be done by pre-selecting a sync location and moving multiple folders/albums there.

 

(2) Purchasing and downloading music with PMW: Searching by artist/album/song name is reasonable, though fairly often what I think should be search hits are not returned. For example, within the past couple of days, searching for Neil Young didn't return the 24/192 version of Everybody Knows This is Nowhere (yes, I made sure I expanded the search results to show all hits). Searching for the album title was successful. The site navigation functionality is not great: once you've looked at an individual album, there are no upper-level menus to use to get back to a global view. All you can do is click on the "pono/beta" text on the upper left (not obvious this is a link) or the Back button. So this makes the Back button pretty important for site navigation when you're looking for music to buy. On the web, the Back button is put there by your browser, and is usually pretty large. In PMW, the Back button is put there by the app, and it is near microscopic, thus quite difficult to find. It needs to be *very* visually evident.

 

Summary of my current thoughts/opinions:

 

- Moving music I already own to the player: Compared to basic drag and drop, PMW is currently substantially slower, more complicated to figure out, and leaves me with file management still to do. What might help are (1) speed improvements; and (2) visual unification and simplification of everything in PMW involved with moving music to the player, so I can select what to move (multiple folders/albums, please) and what not to move (nothing synced to my computer) all in one spot, rather than having to poke around a large window, a small window, and two layers into a submenu.

 

- Purchasing music to download: (1) Bigger Back button, located in a prominent position in the visual field; (2) For the webmasters and/or PMW, "sticky" top-level menus that are always displayed across the top of the page, such as Best Selling Artists, Best Selling Albums, New Releases (these are all on the landing page as lists), Genres, Hi Res....

 

I think the player and the music I've purchased from the Pono site have surpassed my expectations (Simon and Garfunkel albums recorded more than four decades ago sound unbelievably good), and I *really* want this effort to succeed. So please take my remarks as an attempt at provoking thought toward constructive changes to make the entire Pono user experience as positive as possible.

[REShaman]

As promised, I am providing the response, below, I received from Pono Music.com Support ticket I opened after my experience with transferring by drag and drop my first album transferred to the internal memory -- Barry Diament's Winds Of Change, 192/24, AIFF -- of my Limited Edition NY Chrome Pono Player. With that transfer, only three specific tracks, Track 4, 8 and 11 out of 13 tracks were displayed and playable notwithstanding that the Music folder in the Pono Player contains the entire album.

 

I understand there is a work-around suggested by Jud, my own research and now with the response to my Support Ticket. I would have appreciated in the response I received an intention to cure this defect given that AIFF files have been supported for the Pono Player in the promotional text but not in the actual experience. Frankly, I prefer to drag and drop the tracks in the format I choose without the necessity of editing metadata or converting AIFF tracks to FLAC format. I realize that is my decision and thus I am responsible for the choice.

 

I also appreciate that other members wish iTunes would permit FLAC files to be added to the iTunes library in the same way I prefer to add my music library of 4000+ albums (but not in its entirety for my Pono Player) which are all in AIFF format (and many in DSD which is not necessary for the Pono Player to enjoy). I am not on a crusade about this limitation. But I believe it reflects on the quality of the implementation, foresight and practical use of the player.

 

Hopefully, though not yet officially promised, this AIFF limitation will be cured. I am not about to edit all my files to .aif from AIFF. Again, my choice.

 

Please find the response below.

 

Best,

Richard

 

"Created By: Pono Support (12/23/2014 6:18 AM)

Hello Richard and Eric, (sic)

Thank you for contacting Pono Support.

We have experienced a few problems with transferring AIFF files onto the Pono player. We recommend that you convert these files into FLAC files instead. You are able to change this by: right clicking the song> library tools> convert tools

Thank you for your understand. (sic)

Mahalo

Laura"

[jriver]

Jud,

Build 45 fixed a speed issue:

Pono Music World 20.0.45 for Mac -- Available Here

 

But it will always be a little slower than using the OS since PMW is doing special work to get the Blue Light.

 

Feedback on design should be posted on the Pono Music site. We don't have any ability to change it. The store's web pages also aren't ours.

 

You should be able to drag albums or playlists to the device in the Action Window (lower left corner of PMW).

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Jim

[jriver]

Richard,

Are you saying that files with a .aif extension will work, but files with .aiff won't? We could probably make that work if it's the case.

[REShaman]

Richard,

Are you saying that files with a .aif extension will work, but files with .aiff won't? We could probably make that work if it's the case.

 

Hello Jim,

 

Sorry for the confusion I may have created in my last post. No, I was merely repeating what Jud, whose post you referenced in your post, stated as his take on what a work-around might entail. He suggested either editing the extenson AIFF to AIF, which I have no direct experience trying, or converting my AIFF tracks to FLAC, neither steps I am not eager to engage in.

 

My intention is not to be critical of the process, rather, to inspire a way to simply avoid converting to FLAC. I do not know whose responsibility that would be to implement the fix and whether or not firmware or PMW (or both) must be "cured" to allow for AIFF albums which do transfer fully but for some AIFF albums only display a limited number of tracks "arbitrarily" selected. Again, I take responsibility for my preferences. I appreciate that PMW is a work in progress and that firmware evolves as needed to address user feedback about operational issues.

 

Wishing you a Happy Holiday and New Year. Thank you for your response.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[Jud]

Richard,

Are you saying that files with a .aif extension will work, but files with .aiff won't? We could probably make that work if it's the case.

 

Hi Jim. This has to do with the *firmware* problem in the player:

 

- You can get all your AIFF files to show up properly in the player in one of two ways: (1) just rename the file extension from .aiff to .aif or (2) convert to flac.

 

Both .aif and .aiff files show up and work properly in the PMW software.

[jriver]

I meant that we could probably safely rename all the .aiff files to .aif during the sync. This might help until the firmware is fixed.

[Jud]

I meant that we could probably safely rename all the .aiff files to .aif during the sync. This might help until the firmware is fixed.

 

That would certainly be helpful. You might want to find out whether a firmware version with a fix will be released soon, obviating the need for any changes on your end.

[Boris75]

I am surprised at how slowly PMW transfers files to the Pono player. Is it using a USB-1 protocol or something?

[REShaman]

I meant that we could probably safely rename all the .aiff files to .aif during the sync. This might help until the firmware is fixed.

 

Hello Jim,

 

I left out the following experience: I also transferred by drag and drop as a second transfer after receiving my Pono Player Bill Evans' The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings 1961 redbook CD converted by XLD to 44.1/16 AIFF which transferred, displayed and played all 9 tracks BUT the track order was out of sequence.

 

I do not know what triggers these impediments as some AIFF albums display fully and are playable and some are fully transferred but do not display ALL the tracks and thus those not displayed are not playable. The difference between Winds of Change in AIFF format at 192/24 and the Bill Evans album at 44.1/16 AIFF may not be determinative.

 

If changing AIFF extension to AIF actually cures this anamoly and is a firmware issue which you indicated is not one of your responsibilities but someone else's and PMW could be made to make the change in extension until the firmware is "cured" of this impediment and it is worth your time, I am fine with that. Feeling like it's my responsibility to do the "heavy lifting". But then you are offering. Now I will need to actually test Jud's recommendation, which Support at Pono Music.com did not mention (maybe they are not aware of this edit have efficacy).

 

Best,

Richard

[jriver]

I am surprised at how slowly PMW transfers files to the Pono player. Is it using a USB-1 protocol or something?

 

Build 45 fixed a speed issue:

Pono Music World 20.0.45 for Mac -- Available Here

[REShaman]

That would certainly be helpful. You might want to find out whether a firmware version with a fix will be released soon, obviating the need for any changes on your end.

 

Second that. I was hoping for more information from Support at Pono Music.com about a prospective cure. But their response was circumspect. And I have not read anything anywhere that insinuates a cure is in the "making".

 

Best,

Richard

[Boris75]

Build 45 fixed a speed issue:

Pono Music World 20.0.45 for Mac -- Available Here

 

Thanks, but where can I find it? PMW tells me that my version is up to date when I ask for an update check, even after changing the default from "latest stable version" to "latest version."

[jriver]

There is a link in that thread.

[REShaman]

Thanks, but where can I find it? PMW tells me that my version is up to date when I ask for an update check, even after changing the default from "latest stable version" to "latest version."

 

Pono Music

 

Best,

Richard

[Jud]

Damn. Just loaded Joni Mitchell Blue onto the player, all aif files, and none showed up on the player. I'd done this successfully with several albums, and tested individual tracks on albums (the aif tracks would show up on the player, the aiff wouldn't), but obviously it can't be counted on to work all the time.

 

Sorry for providing bogus information.

 

Edit: By the way, 20.0.45 is a lot quicker at loading music onto the player. Thanks.

[REShaman]

Damn. Just loaded Joni Mitchell Blue onto the player, all aif files, and none showed up on the player. I'd done this successfully with several albums, and tested individual tracks on albums (the aif tracks would show up on the player, the aiff wouldn't), but obviously it can't be counted on to work all the time.

 

Sorry for providing bogus information.

 

Edit: By the way, 20.0.45 is a lot quicker at loading music onto the player. Thanks.

 

Hello Jud,

 

Nevertheless, appreciate your input. And you are making my point which is that all AIFF albums transfer fully, but some AIFF albums display in full and play all the tracks available and some AIFF albums display a limited number of tracks only which are playable but the entire album does not play. And the order of the AIFF album tracks are out of order when displaying full albums some of the time.

 

Just as you are experiencing with AIF albums which you stated in your most recent post. One may conclude that albums in the AIFF or AIF format, regardless of the extension letters used is not reliably displayed even though the entire album tracks transfer. You concluded that it is probably a firmware issue in a previous post, and my experience with AIFF files demonstrates the same undesirable outcomes.

 

My hope is that as others have posted and prompted that we member users impress Pono Music.com with our experiences and inspire those responsible for the development of the software/firmware to address the issues we find. It took me minutes to discover this impediment. Clearly, that demonstrates how easily detectable this issue is. Again, not being critical, rather our feedback is offered in support of helping those help us by curing this particular issue. I prefer AIFF files to FLAC files even if my preference is regarded as arbitrary.

 

BTW: PMW 20.0.50 is now available as I discovered early tonight.

 

Happy Holidays and New Year.

 

Best,

Richard

[Crom]

Fascinating, I've just compared the pono player to standard jriver and the pono version sounds better!! Could it possibly be that the stripping out of all the additional services from the standard version does have an affect? But bits are bits right?

 

Maybe those Audiophile optimiser and JPLAY guys are onto something?

[baddog]

Before discussing thoughts about the PonoMusic World (PMW) software, a workaround/tip regarding the AIFF bug in Pono firmware that remains as of version 1.0.4. (The bug is failure to show on the player screen many AIFF files that have been transferred to the player. Please note that the firmware is *not* coded by JRiver.)

 

- You can get all your AIFF files to show up properly in the player in one of two ways: (1) just rename the file extension from .aiff to .aif or (2) convert to flac.

 

Snip, snip......

 

 

Maybe it was a typo, but most of my issues (though not all) are with files downloaded from HD Tracks with an extension of ".AIF". i.e. The Eagles Complete, The Clash Complete.

 

The majority of my collection has the .AIFF extension with very few if any issues with my Pono Player.

 

I just checked the ticket I logged with Pono:

 

Albums with issues - These include The Eagles, The Studio Albums, 24/192 AIF format, The Clash (Sandinista, The Clash, London Calling), 24/96 AIF format, and Van Halen, Studio Albums, 24/192 AIF format.

I have other AIF format files at both 24/94 and 24/192 from HD Tracks that playback fine on the Pono, i.e. Jimmy Cobb, Jazz in the key of Blue, 24/192 FLAC, Heart, Dreamboat Annie, 24/192 AIF, Led Zeppelin, Houses of the Holy, 24/96, AIF, Paul McCartney, Band on the Run, 24/96, AIF.

 

Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend - 24/192

Bob Marley & The Wailers - Kaya - 24/96

 

Both have an extension of ".AIF"

 

[baddog]

As promised, I am providing the response, below, I received from Pono Music.com Support ticket I opened after my experience with transferring by drag and drop my first album transferred to the internal memory -- Barry Diament's Winds Of Change, 192/24, AIFF -- of my Limited Edition NY Chrome Pono Player. With that transfer, only three specific tracks, Track 4, 8 and 11 out of 13 tracks were displayed and playable notwithstanding that the Music folder in the Pono Player contains the entire album.

 

Snip, snip...

"Created By: Pono Support (12/23/2014 6:18 AM)

Hello Richard and Eric, (sic)

Thank you for contacting Pono Support.

We have experienced a few problems with transferring AIFF files onto the Pono player. We recommend that you convert these files into FLAC files instead. You are able to change this by: right clicking the song> library tools> convert tools

Thank you for your understand. (sic)

Mahalo

Laura"

 

Thank you for sharing Richard. This is a very disappointing response from PONO. Especially in light of the fact these files play fine on every other music player in my possession and the only player in which there is a problem is the Pono Player. I will have to give them another call next week. Also the issue is not transferring AIF/AIFF files to the Pono Player, they transfer fine, the issue is the music software on the Pono ( not from JRIVER ) is not recognizing the files. Pono should address this issue.

 

Barr

[baddog]

I meant that we could probably safely rename all the .aiff files to .aif during the sync. This might help until the firmware is fixed.

 

Well maybe something to consider for the HD Tracks downloader, when it is next updated by, is to use an extension of .aiff rather than .aif?

[Jud]

Well maybe something to consider for the HD Tracks downloader, when it is next updated by, is to use an extension of .aiff rather than .aif?

 

Brian: Renaming doesn't work, as noted in my next post after the one you quoted.

[REShaman]

Thank you for sharing Richard. This is a very disappointing response from PONO. Especially in light of the fact these files play fine on every other music player in my possession and the only player in which there is a problem is the Pono Player. I will have to give them another call next week. Also the issue is not transferring AIF/AIFF files to the Pono Player, they transfer fine, the issue is the music software on the Pono ( not from JRIVER ) is not recognizing the files. Pono should address this issue.

 

Barr

 

Hello Barr,

 

I concur with your perspective. Perhaps Pono Music.com's support staff does not report to someone higher up who would regard these anamolies are unacceptable.

 

Many times over the decades my experience includes line personnel who respond with a circumspect narrative. However, when I have contacted a level within Management, the response is entirely different and more in line with an appreciation for recognizing what reflects badly on their company. This is true of a wide variety of companies no matter how good their equipment performs (including Apple).

 

I did not limit my "notice" to only a support ticket channel. I also posted at Pono Music.com's/PMW's forums. The attention I had hoped for is severely lacking given the nature of the impediment. If i was being critical of design aesthetics, I might expect a similar response. But operational impediments which hinder the employment of and a reasonable expectation for widely used/available formats should as a matter of course get the appropriate response when notice is given by their customer base and cured. Perhaps, this impediment will eventally reach someone at Pono Music.com who has the wisdom and authority to correct this issue which still persists. Sometimes what is actually involved to correct a seemingly randon impediment is not always as simple to correct as one might expect.

 

I will remain positive that this particular issue will ultimately be corrected (as it should be).

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[baddog]

Brian: Renaming doesn't work, as noted in my next post after the one you quoted.

 

Yes, I agree. My suggestion was more in regards to the fact that most AIFF format files have a .AIFF extension as opposed to an .AIF extension.

 

And that I had no issues with any files with a .AIFF extension, only those from HD Tracks with an .AIF extension ( and to be clear I am not blaming either JRIVER or HD Tracks for this ).

 

-- Barr aka "Brian"

[plakey]

I can say that HD TRACK .aif files show up on Pono sometime, and sometimes they do not. I can't figure it out but it's a royal PITA. I'm not at all enjoying the PONO app... it's slow and very buggy. The drag-and-drop works better but it's still hit and miss. Sometimes the Pono player looks empty as a drive but has music on it. Very strange. Don't know what I think yet. I am trying to find some headphone recommendations so I can see just what I think...