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Poll: should JRiver remove the JPlay is a hoax warnings from their JRMC product?


Antoine

Should JRiver remove the JPlay is a hoax warnings from their JRMC product?  

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I have never understood Paul's position, but in general he is sensible and I not only grant his opinion, but take note of it. With that said, the "hoax" pop up is completely bush league IMO. A simple "JPlay is unsupportable" would suffice.

The OP asked neither of the above questions. The issue of whether JPlay is a hoax is only relevant to the extent that J River introduced it as an issue. The survey asked for opinions on whether J River should remove the “hoax” warning. It did not ask if J River should be required to remove it. The distinction may be subtle, but it is significant. Perhaps our views are not that far apart, after all.

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JPlay is an audio player.

Jriver is audio/video player, with better GUI to manage the files...

 

JPlay was made to only run in JRiver? No. Can be used with all the players that support that feature.

 

JRiver has the same feature? Yes! And they made it after JPlay! So now it makes sense for them.

JRiver now also has a sound driver, so now they can be a parasite for Spotify, Pandora, Tidal, BBC, YouTube, Netflix, etc...

When these programs will start having problems because of JRiver, should they also say that JRiver is a hoax, because their program already has the "best" sound!?

 

JRiver had problems with JPlay, so they can put a message on his program, when it detects JPlay, or other player, for the first time only, and say that JPlay/Other could make it unstable/slower/whatever and they will not support it.

 

Is this so difficult!? Why JRiver make it different?

Because for them bits are just bits, how the software code is made is irrelevant, every person has the same knowledge, but they say their program sounds better than others, that some Audio Output Modes are better than others, and so on, so where we stay now!?

 

This is PURE NONSENSE!!!

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I believe that most people have indicated that they disapprove of the use of the word “hoax” and not the use of a popup, per se. It would be censorship to suggest that J River not be allowed to use the term. It is not censorship to believe that J River simply should not use the term. Many consider branding a competitor’s product a “hoax” to be an inappropriate and unnecessarily provocative practice.

 

 

See my previous reply. To use your example, It is censorship to prevent me from saying what I wish, or to believe that I not be allowed to say what I wish. It is not censorship to disagree with what I say or to believe that I should not say it.

 

 

The OP asked neither of the above questions. The issue of whether JPlay is a hoax is only relevant to the extent that J River introduced it as an issue. The survey asked for opinions on whether J River should remove the “hoax” warning. It did not ask if J River should be required to remove it. The distinction may be subtle, but it is significant. Perhaps our views are not that far apart, after all.

 

That is fair, Allan. I can see why you would say they *should* remove it because that is how you feel. It has nothing to do with if it is or isn't a hoax or making them do so. I have no argument with that opinion. Even if I don't share it entirely, agree that it isn't harmful.

 

Short of JRiver changing their mind voluntarily, however, I feel that is where it should stop.

 

Some type of government (legislative or judicial) action require them to do so would fly in the face of the kinds of freedoms many of us cherish.

 

So if we just want to hold opinions about how we feel and we aren't really saying they should be forced to change it by some type of government action, then what is the purpose of this poll but to be an anti-JRiver petition? The more people that *sign* the petition, the more the negative JRiver seems to the general reader.

 

Given the respect I have for Jim and Matt and JRiver, I'm glad I voted *no* because I wouldn't want to be a part of a petition against a company that has done so much to enhance my hobby. I would hate to be part of a negative campaign against JRiver.

 

P.S. Before any says "who said anything about government action?" re-read the posts by the OP where he does call for a judge to censor the "hoax" popup:

 

With these popup they primarily "punish" their own customers instead of the company they blame. I'd prefer JRiver to take legal actions, fight it out in court; let a judge decide if what JPlay is doing is in any way "parasitic hijacking"

 

Why should JRiver have to prove their opinion in court? Why does it matter unless you don't want them to be able to say their opinion?

 

Fair enough, it is ultimately up to a judge to decide if any laws have been broken.

 

This goes even farther. What laws? The laws that allow freedom of speech and the ability to editorialize?

 

This is why I am against "censorship" of the CONTENT of the popup. It would be wrong for a judge to tell a company they cannot say what they want to within their own program that people choose to license.

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And you will, inevitably, have problems.

 

 

can you explain us the technical motivation behind this premonition?

try to convince me that your statement is not based on commercial implications only.

if you can't, please let me be a bit rude: maybe you should double the effort to the JRiver development's instead of losing time writing fantasies everywhere.

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@InfernoSTi,

 

Freedom of speech/censorship has absolutely nothing to with it IMO. You simply can't say or do anything you like and then hide behind this "freedom of speech" right. JRiver is a commercial company that both aggressively and unprofessionally attacks another company with, what I think are, defamatory statements. They are intentionally harming JPlay or trying to. If those statements are also weighed to be defamatory (criminal offense) by a court of law JRiver would probably be forced to remove or change them. And as stated before perhaps JRiver can even be prosecuted for violating competition law infringements. To top it all they also publicly insult their own customers that choose to use JPlay by calling them "gullible" (=easily deceived or cheated).

 

Instead of 'fighting it out' professionally, either together with JPlay in a room or through the use of our law system they (JRiver) punish and insult their own customers. So yes as a (for now former) customer, I personally would like the hoax warnings through intermittent popups to be either removed completely or at the very least toned down and displayed only once. I'm perfectly fine with them stating on their (support) website or, like any decent company does, in a end user license agreement that using JPlay or -any other- (no discrimination please!) software ASIO output device, will not be supported.

 

You can consider the question of this poll to be the opposite of a regular feature request. We (at least the people that vote 'yes') are asking JRiver to remove this specific "feature" of their product. I personally find it cripples the product. Feel free to open your own poll if you don't agree with the question asked. It's my right to ask them anything or give my opinion on the workings of their program. I can't do that on their own forum though as they censor all and any referings to 'JPlay'.

 

NB. I'm not going any deeper into academic discussions. I don't feel I master the the English language well enough for that. I would be happy to do so in Dutch though, but I'm afraid a lot of people here don't understand that language very well. :)

 

edit: and now I'm going to enjoy my new Totaldac USB cable/filter that just got delivered. :)

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I believe the owner has control of their own page. Where did you see this fact?

 

As a Facebook page owner you can only report reviews or disable the complete 'reviews' tab but then you also have to disable the 'show map', 'check-ins' and address information of the company. I know the settings in Facebook but I'm sure if you google for it you can find it as well.

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As a Facebook page owner you can only report reviews or disable the complete 'reviews' tab but then you also have to disable the 'show map', 'check-ins' and address information of the company. I know the settings in Facebook but I'm sure if you google for it you can find it as well.

 

Ok I see. On personal pages people have control. Did not realize this was different. Not a big Facebook user. I would guess one way or another if people started trashing them on FB they would do something. I guess when they report it, it would be removed.

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I've learned that Facebook is quite strict in it's "moderating", which is a good thing. And with this I mean that they follow their violation terms to the letter. It's very unlikely they'll censor posts unless they contain nudity, bullying, graphic violence, spam, harassment/threats or abuse.

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Antoine,

You're clearly very unhappy with JRiver. I'd like to refund your license so you can find another company who can do a better job for you.

 

You could write me an e-mail. I'm jimh at jriver.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Hillegass

CEO, JRiver

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center / jriver.com

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Antoine,

You're clearly very unhappy with JRiver. I'd like to refund your license so you can find another company who can do a better job for you.

 

You could write me an e-mail. I'm jimh at jriver.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Hillegass

CEO, JRiver

 

Jim,

 

Why don't you simply remove or change this "HOAX" warning like discussed in this topic? I might become a customer again and it'll end this discussion.

 

If you don't, I'll send you an email for a refund but I will accept no 'terms and conditions' to receive the refund.

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My terms are that you stop using the software and defaming JRiver. You obviously don't like the software or the company. It would be best to make a clean start with something else. Maybe JPlay will satisfy your needs.

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center / jriver.com

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My terms are that you stop using the software and defaming JRiver. You obviously don't like the software or the company. It would be best to make a clean start with something else. Maybe JPlay will satisfy your needs.

 

I don't accept these terms and I don't care about the $50-70. So you can keep the money and we'll continue this discussion. Bye now!

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I do think it's a bit ridiculous. If people want to use JPlay, put up a warning inside the program which includes a "do not show again" option.

Inform them that it's likely to break DVD playback, may have other negative effects on video playback in general, and that they will not receive any support as long as they continue to have JPlay installed on your system.

 

As far as I know it seems to work fine for audio-only playback, so why not just disable DVD playback if JPlay is being used? (with a JPlay-specific error)

I don't see the point in nagging users about it the way the program currently does, and I probably wouldn't call it a hoax either.

 

 

However, it is their software so they are free to do what they want.

It's clear that they don't care about losing paying customers, as the business is apparently doing rather well now - even if the customers that they're losing now are the ones that spread the word about JRiver in the first place.

 

I've had a lot of problems getting JRMC to play DVDs. I used their forum to get help. They did respond quickly. But they got crazy angry when they found out that I had a trial copy of JPlay. I removed it, as they requested, but made the mistake of asking what the big deal was. They locked me out of their forum! Other than DVD playback, I like JRMC but I won't be giving them any more of my money.
Probably because JPlay was breaking DVD playback using the Microsoft DVD Navigator.

I believe that was the specific reason that JRiver decided to implement this "warning" in the first place.

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Probably because JPlay was breaking DVD playback using the Microsoft DVD Navigator.

I believe that was the specific reason that JRiver decided to implement this "warning" in the first place.

 

Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure I had removed JPlay and reloaded JRMC without resolving the issue (I have to use the default Windows media player when I want to watch a DVD; this really sucks when I want to watch a concert video and would like to use the JRMC audio engine). JRiver seems like they might have very good customer service, just don't mention JPlay lest they become irrational.

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Hi Antoine - This is a very tricky subject for me because JRiver is an advertiser and I don't want to be seen as protecting an advertiser in any way. JRiver can protect itself. However, your continuous attack against them has resulted in you using the CA forum for reasons other than why I created it. I encourage everyone to voice opinions, but yours are a bit out of control now. This site is for the continued enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. Helping people enjoy this hobby more is what CA is all about. CA isn't a platform for a single user to launch an attack against a company with which he is unhappy. Your comments, after the first few, do nothing to further anyone's enjoyment of this hobby.

 

All further posts by you about this topic will be scrutinized heavily and removed if you continue to attack JRiver or any company in this way on CA.

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In what way, Chris, are my opinions out of control?

 

We're still discussing the same subject, I haven't voiced anything that's really new and have only responded to other people's views with my own views as others have also done in this topic. Also I am participating on other subjects/in other topics as well, although currently this topic takes most of my available free time.

 

And yes, I feel that I am about to be silenced, and so I think you've set foot on a slippery slope.

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Hi Antoine - This is a very tricky subject for me because JRiver is an advertiser and I don't want to be seen as protecting an advertiser in any

 

Your forum, your rules. Are there specific rules the poster has violated (I didn't notice very strong language) or are there rules around certain companies etc? Just curious as a new member.

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OK, follow up, of course I can't copy-paste the emails but I can share, in my own words, what was discussed.

 

Jim is about to refund me, revoke my MC licenses and delete my account from their forum. However he wrote that I could stop now and leave things as they are. I however agreed to be refunded but repeated that I won't accept any 'terms or conditions' to receive that refund.

 

He explained that the HOAX part was proven by someone named Mitchco in a test and that JPlay have lied about JRiver's software and that of others (he didn't elaborate further, so no idea what lies about what subject). He also threatened to completely remove support for JPlay if this discussion/dispute grows further. I said I didn't care and wouldn't respond to threats but did ask (but he didn't care to explain) what that means so it could be what I was afraid of earlier (see earlier posts about sabotaging JPlay after detection, but I don't know for sure of course). I did suggest to reconsider that move as it'll fuel the discussion even further.

 

He thinks all I want is to hurt JRiver so I have explained my views again and told him that that is not the case but also said that I don't want to be a customer of a company that employs these kind of practices.

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My terms are that you stop using the software and defaming JRiver.

 

Can you point me to the exact post / sentence where Antoine defaimed Jriver ?

 

I have read all his posts, and although I wish some of them could be worded a bit different (Antoine is not a native english speaker), I was not able to find a single one that could be viewed as fraudulent.

 

On the contrary - I find abovementioned information to be factually correct.

Adam

 

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