tranz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Hi, Has anyone used a truly gapless DLNA Controller that uses for example the SetNextAvTransportURI command to accomplish this? JRiver along with the JRemote app is the only one I have been able to find that does DLNA gapless. Whitebear seems to be another but I have not used it. PlugPlayer and Kinsky certainly do not do gapless for me. Cheers. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Hi Tranz, It's actually the JRiver Media Center that contains the UPnP/DLNA control point and it does not require the JRemote app to work, for gapless support nor for anything else to do with UPnP. The JRemote app is not involved in the UPnP/DLNA communication process and is only a remote control device for JMC, with its own proprietary communication mechanism. Also, Whitebear is a UPnP/DLNA front end for both Squeezebox renderers and the Logitech Media Server (the media library used by Squeezeboxes). This allows the Squeezebox renderers to be controlled by standard UPnP/DLNA control points and also the LMS library to be used by UPnP/DLNA devices. Whitebear does not produce a UPnP/DLNA control point, AFAIK. The SetNextAVTransportURI method is used by standard UPnP control points and renderers to support gapless playback, but not all UPnP devices implement it. OpenHome Media (ohMedia, aka UPnP with Linn extensions) devices all implement gapless playback, but use a different method. Apart from JRiver's built-in UPnP/DLNA control point supporting gapless playback for standard UPnP, there are a few others, notably: Foobar2000 with the foo_UPnP plugin component (Windows only), BubbleUPnP (Android only), Lightning DS - the Auralic Aries renderer's app (currently, iOS only), and Audionet Music Manager - the Audionet DNP renderer's app (Android & iOS). Both the BubbleUPnP & Lightning DS app are ohHome control points as well as standard UPnP control points, so support both mechanisms for gapless support. I believe the Foobar2000/foo_UPnP control point may be similar (the foo_UPnP component is produced by Bubbleguuum/BubbleSoft, the producer of the BubbleUPnP app). John We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
tranz Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Thanks John. Appreciate all the details. That would explain why Jremote has no issues, whereas when I use PlugPlayer to control JRiver it suddenly is no longer gapless. Shocking really that at this stage in the game it is still such a struggle to get gapless to function with ease. Another big plus for JRiver and the Auralic solution. I saw a discussion where JRiver was schooling the Bubble developer on what to do. Link to comment
tranz Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 I just read that Davide256 was able to use the Kinsky controller, Minimserver and SoTM SMS100 as renderer in another gapless solution. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Well, that 'other gapless solution' is actually the one provided by OpenHome Media supporting devices which have their own mechansim for gapless playback support built-in, as I mentioned above. Both Kinsky and the SotM SMS100 support ohMedia. Kinsky actually makes quite a decent OpenHome control point, being the one originally designed for the Linn (ohMedia) renderers. Unfortunately, it is also a rather buggy standard UPnP control point, which you have discovered when using it to control the standard UPnP only JRiver renderer. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
tranz Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks John. A lot to learn! Thanks for the clarification on OpenHome. I was curious why Davide256 had no issues with Kinsky, and that explains it. Link to comment
tranz Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well I tried many of them: Kinsky - Perhaps, as John mentioned, it works better with the OpenHome (and the Linn hardware), because as a DLNA/UPnP controller it does not do gapless, and does not track where you are in the song. Plug Player - Not gapless and crashes quite often. Interface is not bad, but not stable enough to use. Lightning DS - Gapless, and nice interface. But does not follow the song, nor where you are in the playlist. Drops connection randomly. Not stable yet. AudioNet iMM - Gapless. Slick simple layout, but limited to 10 songs within the Playlist as a generic DLNA/UPnP controller. Has a hard time finding the server library sometimes. And you cannot browse within a song, or see where you are. JRiver - At this point I have only found Jriver with JRemote, the latter not a true DLNA controller, to really be an option that is stable and gapless. And it is by far the slickest, most informative way of browsing the library, controlling and seeing what is playing. Nothing I have played with beats it. With all the other ones I am constantly worrying whether it will forget to be gapless, or drop out, etc. My only problem, and it is a rather big one, is that there is no JRiver solution for the NAS. I would still have to be running 2 computers to use JRiver/Jremote. Cheers. Link to comment
Distinctive Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I think Linn Kazoo (upcoming Kinsky substitute) should also be mentioned. I really like the minimalist and clean layout. Link to comment
DavidL Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 FYI BubbleUPnP with MinimServer is giving me flawless playback (gapless and hi-res). ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control > Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition . Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800 Link to comment
tranz Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Thanks for the info Distinctive and DavidL Link to comment
tranz Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Btw I tried Kazoo today, and I guess if is only for Linn hardware renderers, not generic UPnP or DLNA ones. Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Btw I tried Kazoo today, and I guess if is only for Linn hardware renderers, not generic UPnP or DLNA ones. It requires an OpenHome compatible renderer - Linn, Auralic Aries and Lumin meet that criteria as hardware. You can "emulate" an OpenHome renderer using BubbleUPnP Server which also works with SetNextAvTransportURI to offer gapless. Eloise Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 IYou can "emulate" an OpenHome renderer using BubbleUPnP Server which also works with SetNextAvTransportURI to offer gapless.+1Excellent bit of software, not to be confused with Bubbleguuum's similarly named application, the BubbleUPnP Android app and neither is it a UPnP media server, of course! Can be run on most computers and many NASs (requires Java runtime). The ohMedia emulation feature can be configured for all the standard UPnP renderers on the network, as required. Works well with my Denon & Pioneer streamers so that I can control them with excellent, but ohMedia only, Lumin app and certainly the Kinsky app behaves itself much better controlling the renderer as an ohMedia emulated one. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
tranz Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 +1Excellent bit of software, not to be confused with Bubbleguuum's other software, the Android BubbleUPnP app and neither is it a UPnP media server, of course! Can be run on most computers and many NASs (requires Java runtime). The ohMedia emulation feature can be configured for all the standard UPnP renderers on the network, as required. Certainly works well with my Denon & Pioneer streamers so that I can control them with excellent, but ohMedia only, Lumin app and certainly the Kinsky app behaves itself much better controlling the streamer as an ohMedia emulated one. Interesting. So you could combine it with MinimServer or Synology Media Server as the server on a NAS, but it would then be visible to the OpenHome controllers. Or does it have to remain in the Bubble family? And it does not degrade the sound or transcode audio? Thanks! Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Interesting. So you could combine it with MinimServer or Synology Media Server as the server on a NAS, but it would then be visible to the OpenHome controllers. Or does it have to remain in the Bubble family? And it does not degrade the sound or transcode audio? Yes that's pretty much right. Once you put the OpenHome emulation in place the renderer can be seen by Lumin, Kinsky, Kazoo, Lightning DS, etc as well as the BubbleUPnP control point. There is no transcoding; it's just a variation on the control point. Can it degrade the sound: well does your renderer sound different if you use Kinsky vs Lightning DS. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
tranz Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes that's pretty much right. Once you put the OpenHome emulation in place the renderer can be seen by Lumin, Kinsky, Kazoo, Lightning DS, etc as well as the BubbleUPnP control point. There is no transcoding; it's just a variation on the control point. Can it degrade the sound: well does your renderer sound different if you use Kinsky vs Lightning DS. Sweet! I will give it a try. Ta! Link to comment
Cebolla Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes, you should be able to run it on the same box as the UPnP media server and it is independent any other Bubblesoft application. There are other UPnP 'helper' type function options, such as the ability to allow any UPnP media server on your network be accessable securely over the internet. It also has the ability to transcode files being streamed in certain scenarios, but this feature, like the others, is optional. It should have no impact on sound quality if its just being used to provide OpenHome emulation, as it will just be dealing with references to the music files on the network (ie their http addresses on the media server), rather than the actual files and their data. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Distinctive Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Just a minor comment that Kazoo control point also comes with an associated ohMedia server that can be run on the server side (e.g. HTPC). I don't think you can get it for NAS, though. Link to comment
davide256 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Well I tried many of them: Kinsky - Perhaps, as John mentioned, it works better with the OpenHome (and the Linn hardware), because as a DLNA/UPnP controller it does not do gapless, and does not track where you are in the song. Plug Player - Not gapless and crashes quite often. Interface is not bad, but not stable enough to use. Lightning DS - Gapless, and nice interface. But does not follow the song, nor where you are in the playlist. Drops connection randomly. Not stable yet. AudioNet iMM - Gapless. Slick simple layout, but limited to 10 songs within the Playlist as a generic DLNA/UPnP controller. Has a hard time finding the server library sometimes. And you cannot browse within a song, or see where you are. JRiver - At this point I have only found Jriver with JRemote, the latter not a true DLNA controller, to really be an option that is stable and gapless. And it is by far the slickest, most informative way of browsing the library, controlling and seeing what is playing. Nothing I have played with beats it. With all the other ones I am constantly worrying whether it will forget to be gapless, or drop out, etc. My only problem, and it is a rather big one, is that there is no JRiver solution for the NAS. I would still have to be running 2 computers to use JRiver/Jremote. Cheers. It's not a JRiver NAS solution thats needed... its a JRiver tablet app thats needed to give us that great GUI. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
tranz Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's not a JRiver NAS solution thats needed... its a JRiver tablet app thats needed to give us that great GUI. JRemote is quite slick. Even though not a DLNA controller the best of the bunch at this point. Link to comment
tranz Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 With the BubbleUPnP Server, mentioned by Eloise and John (Thank you!) , on top of MinimServer on a NAS it even makes my receiver show up now as an Open Home renderer, and so the following are now ones I am checking out too: Lumin - Very nice looking Kazoo - Also good looking And I will have to revisit Lightning DS, Plug Player and Kinsky in OHMedia mode too. Let's see whether gapless, FF and REW, song location tracking within a song are now available. Cheers. Link to comment
wappinghigh Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi Tranz.. report back soon.. Nice summary above too.. I'm following this thread closely.. I could never get BubbleUPnP working on my QNAp..anyway.. a project for another day! New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra Link to comment
davide256 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 JRemote is quite slick. Even though not a DLNA controller the best of the bunch at this point. Unfortunately JRiver has joined my discarded software license pile along with Jplay and AudioPhil script of "found something I like musically better". If they made a media server app that ran on Synology that would be great but nothing could drag me back to using a PC again for media server. However I would gladly pay a new software fee for a Jriver DLNA controller that gave their GUI interface with a NAS media library. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now