New wood floors & speaker spikes

[Foggie]

As a recent convert into Barry Diament's bowls and marbles religion I will solemnly testify: this is the best way of placing speakers on a room floor (costs-results). It took some time and research in getting raw aluminium rod, steel bearings balls and capable machinist together, but now I am really enjoying completely new sound from my old speakers. And, bowls/balls do no harm to any surface. Anything you put on it is "floating" but setting is pretty stable at the same time.

 

Cool. Happen to have any pics to share?

[miguelito]

As a recent convert into Barry Diament's bowls and marbles religion I will solemnly testify: this is the best way of placing speakers on a room floor (costs-results). It took some time and research in getting raw aluminium rod, steel bearings balls and capable machinist together, but now I am really enjoying completely new sound from my old speakers. And, bowls/balls do no harm to any surface. Anything you put on it is "floating" but setting is pretty stable at the same time.

 

Rugs: so-called "tribal" rugs, as famous Turkmen rugs and similar to them are much rugged, have less knots per sq. cm, wild ornaments with jazzy irregularities, comparatively cheaper than much more elaborated and labour heavy city Persians. Most of tribal rugs are produced in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran now, also in Caucasus mountains, Turkey, etc. Both city and tribal rugs would be synthetic and natural (threads and dyes). Natural tribals are good for the sound... :-)

I visited Jonathan Carr in Tokyo a while back (chief designer for Lyra cartridges). He had his speakers sitting on gravel which itself was contained in a wooden sandbox (one per speaker obviously). It sounded majestic, but obviously we didn't AB any of this...

[miguelito]

Cool. Happen to have any pics to share?

Ditto.

[AnotherSpin]

Similar items used under each component in my system.

 

[AnotherSpin]

He had his speakers sitting on gravel which itself was contained in a wooden sandbox (one per speaker obviously). It sounded majestic, but obviously we didn't AB any of this...

I like this idea for a long time.

 

[Foggie]

Similar items used under each component in my

 

Cool.

 

These guys

 

http://www.ingress-engineering.ca/products-and-services.php

 

sell 6 rollers similar to what you have pictured for $75. I'm not sure if the profile is what I would opt for, but pretty reasonable though.

[wgscott]

I visited Jonathan Carr in Tokyo a while back (chief designer for Lyra cartridges). He had his speakers sitting on gravel which itself was contained in a wooden sandbox (one per speaker obviously). It sounded majestic, but obviously we didn't AB any of this...

 

I assume he does not have any cats.

[wgscott]

Similar items used under each component in my system.

 

I understand doing this for components that are microphonic, but why a mac mini?

 

When I grew tRNA crystals, we set them up on top of an inflated inner tube from a child's bicycle tire, and suspended the platform from the top of a container box. That protected them from low and high-frequency vibrations, as well as temperature fluctuations.

[Daudio]

Cool. Happen to have any pics to share?

 

Yep ! Here is a pic of my DIY roller blocks. They are made from acrylic 'dimple blocks' (for displaying decorated eggs and such, $2-4), and 3/4" grade 25 chrome steel balls ($13 for 25 on Amazon). I have just gotten some in place a few days ago. I will have more to say about them, and variations, later...

 

[AnotherSpin]

I understand doing this for components that are microphonic, but why a mac mini?

 

When I grew tRNA crystals, we set them up on top of an inflated inner tube from a child's bicycle tire, and suspended the platform from the top of a container box. That protected them from low and high-frequency vibrations, as well as temperature fluctuations.

 

Even mac mini has some things inside than move, hum, vibrate, etc., or taking influence from moves, hums, vibrations from outside, I presume? Anyway, my machinist cut a lot of bowls, I am having fun from installing them under various things...

 

I also use tubes under components - the one is slightly visible between two platforms on first picture.

[Daudio]

Is there any particular reason for the very large diameter (compared to the bearing diameter) 'dish' cut into the aluminum blank ?

[bdiament]

Is there any particular reason for the very large diameter (compared to the bearing diameter) 'dish' cut into the aluminum blank ?

 

Hi Dave,

 

There most definitely is.

The diameter of the bowl relative to the ball determines how frequently the ball oscillates, i.e., the resonance frequency.

Ideally, in an isolator, this should be in the low single digits.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

The Soundkeeper | Audio, Music, Recording, Playback

Barry Diament Audio

[jamesg11]

Here is what the living room looks like tonight:

 

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Is that a Lopi heater?

[jamesg11]

I had spikes on big granite slabs, & pretty much was unhappy with the glare from day 1, though the bottom end was impressively tight & chunky. I'm a recent convert to these -

Herbie's Loudspeaker Feet

 

Thought about spike glider, but went for one of the 'big fat dot' versions. Much more musical presentation. Some good dialogue on the forum site re isolation as per above discussions. No doubt there's better products out there ... but this was reasonably priced, given what Stillpoints etc run to.

[Jabs1542]

I assume he does not have any cats.

 

Maybe he does and that wasn't sand in those boxes

[Jabs1542]

Hi Dave,

 

There most definitely is.

The diameter of the bowl relative to the ball determines how frequently the ball oscillates, i.e., the resonance frequency.

Ideally, in an isolator, this should be in the low single digits.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

The Soundkeeper | Audio, Music, Recording, Playback

Barry Diament Audio

 

Barry, can you provide any preferred dimensions? I have my own machine shop (yet another hobby).

[Jud]

Maybe he does and that wasn't sand in those boxes

 

And maybe not gravel under the speakers?!

[miguelito]

Hi Dave,

 

There most definitely is.

The diameter of the bowl relative to the ball determines how frequently the ball oscillates, i.e., the resonance frequency.

Ideally, in an isolator, this should be in the low single digits.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

The Soundkeeper | Audio, Music, Recording, Playback

Barry Diament Audio

I'm sorry but this is making my mind hurt (I know a little physics, I have a phd in physics).

 

What you say is correct for lateral vibrations in your configuration. There is NOTHING in a metal ball resting on a metal surface that provides isolation in the vertical dimension (which I would argue is most of the transmission).

[miguelito]

And maybe not gravel under the speakers?!

The Jonathan Carr setup had small grey stones, maybe 1/2 inch in diameter or so, on top of which the speakers where resting. And I don't recall exactly but I don't think there were any spike on the speakers (which would defeat the purpose).

[wgscott]

Is that a Lopi heater?

 

Beats me (came with the house). It is a fireplace insert of some sort.

[wgscott]

I'm sorry but this is making my mind hurt (I know a little physics, I have a phd in physics).

 

90% of this website should give you convulsions.

[wgscott]

The Jonathan Carr setup had small grey stones, maybe 1/2 inch in diameter or so, on top of which the speakers where resting. And I don't recall exactly but I don't think there were any spike on the speakers (which would defeat the purpose).

 

The spikes go on the top to keep the cats off.

[AnotherSpin]

I'm sorry but this is making my mind hurt (I know a little physics, I have a phd in physics).

 

There are lot of lenghty discussions on this topic, on this forum and elsewhere in the net. My phd is in history, and I understand very little physics theory, if any at all. Nevertheless, my ears are telling me something...

[Encore]

I'm sorry but this is making my mind hurt (I know a little physics, I have a phd in physics).

 

What you say is correct for lateral vibrations in your configuration. There is NOTHING in a metal ball resting on a metal surface that provides isolation in the vertical dimension (which I would argue is most of the transmission).

 

For vertical isolation, Barry recommends a board of piece of plywood placed on a lightly inflated bicycle inner tube. He places the Hip Joint ball "bearings" on that. BTW, it is interesting that the reviewer in this review prefers to use the Rollerblocks under the Symposium platform, despite the protests from the manufacturer.

 

I'm really curious to try it out Barry's advice, and I definitely will try it on my DAC and amp. However, I feel very uneasy about putting my speakers on top of metal balls. It would seem to me that there's a great risk of the speakers slowly working their way off the balls, unless the floor is perfectly even, which no floor is. Some months ago, I went to a Nordost accessories demo, and during the discussion of their Sort Füt, the representative stressed that they couldn't recommend any kind of speaker support that wasn't screwed into the speaker cabinet, because the vibrations from the cabinet could make it travel on the supports, perhaps to the point of tipping over. The risk of that would seem to be particularly high with metal balls as contact points.

[bdiament]

I'm sorry but this is making my mind hurt (I know a little physics, I have a phd in physics).

 

What you say is correct for lateral vibrations in your configuration. There is NOTHING in a metal ball resting on a metal surface that provides isolation in the vertical dimension (which I would argue is most of the transmission).

 

Hi miguelito,

 

You are correct regarding the orientation of the isolation. If you re-read anything I've written, you will find mention of well-designed and well-implemented roller bearings isolating in the horizontal and rotational planes but you will not find any mention of them isolating in the vertical plane.

 

This is why I use a combination of rollers and air bearings in order to achieve multiple-axis isolation. The rollers for the horizontal and rotational planes, and the air bearings for the vertical plane.

 

As one who uses both, the benefits provided by each are clear, as are the benefits of combining them. That said, if I had to choose only one of the two, I'd go with the rollers. Perhaps this is because the primary plane of ground borne vibration is in fact, horizontal and not vertical. (Vide "P waves" for more info.) In fact, roller bearings are nothing new. They are just miniaturized versions of what have been used under skyscrapers in earthquake-prone areas for a century.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

The Soundkeeper | Audio, Music, Recording, Playback

Barry Diament Audio