Fridolin Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The behavior to stream in 96 kbps is new in Tidal. I always made playlists for albums which didn't play in "HiFi". There are hundreds of mostly older albums which are not playing in HiFi (albeit paying the HiFi fee) that i detected. Presumably there are many thousands of them. But until now they always played with AAC 320 kbps. Now even my older "LoFi"-playlists play with only AAC 96 kbps. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 That's the 'new' behaviour you are observing. Like I said I'm also seeing MP3 320kbps via the ickStream platform for the same albums you've mentioned receiving AAC 96kbps. It also appears that MP3 tracks are being streamed by Roon from TIDAL HiFi, see link in my last post. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Fridolin Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Very strange, especially because all those "LoFi" titles streamed in AAC 320 kbps since i started with Tidal long time ago. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Indeed. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I moved this subject over to the PS Audio forum to get more input. Link to comment
left channel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Confirmed with that track, using UAPP on Android. This is an MP3 stream. (Click to enlarge.) Testing tracks in the same search results gives bit depths and bit rates within the HiFi FLAC stream range. Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Is anyone seeing anything higher than 97 kbps with Tidal streaming? Link to comment
Fridolin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Only for titles which stream in Flac format. The AAC titles are all 96 kbps here. rodrigaj 1 Link to comment
SeeHear Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 12/8/2017 at 6:00 PM, left channel said: @alcibiadesGR MQA hardware decoding requires a bit perfect signal, "untouched" by your system. That is what "Exclusive Mode" does. You should also choose Exclusive Mode for any external DAC, MQA or non-MQA, to let the DAC do all the work. I just wanted to clarify what Exclusive Mode is/does. It makes the DAC ignore all other applications. If your player app does not engage the DAC in exclusive mode, it (the DAC) will default to one (usually user definable) bit depth/sample rate setting if more than one software tries to send data through it. Unless you have configured it to be something different, it's probably 24/48. In other words, your player will not have exclusive control of the DAC - which is needed in order to control the bit depth and sample rate of the DAC. If you're hearing your OS notification sounds through your DAC, you're not in exclusive mode. Exclusive mode also precludes any other software using the DAC while the primary software maintains control. old_bassist 1 Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 My problem was a bad modem. The new modem downloads at 67Mbps and my MConnect Control settings for Tidal have changed dramatically. Masters files are 24 bit, 192K and 1750 kbps. When I was on a search for better hardware to stream MQA I selected PS Audio DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II. You can buy PSA hardware for about 33% off from HighPerformanceStereo.com. You won't be disappointed. For my big Magnepan speakers I got two M700 mono amps, again for about 33% off. I wish you could hear. Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I do encourage checking your modems and networks. If your online speed test are not what they should be, something is wrong. Link to comment
left channel Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 1/18/2018 at 10:29 PM, oneartist said: Is anyone seeing anything higher than 97 kbps with Tidal streaming? In my second image above you will see 774 kbps. That is within the range of variable bit rates for nominally 1411 kbps HiFi FLAC streaming. That is what I normally see. I have never before noticed the type of low bit rate tracks being discussed here. Perhaps I'm just not groovalicious enough anymore. Sigh. :-) Everyone wants to date my avatar. Link to comment
realhifi Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 15 hours ago, oneartist said: My problem was a bad modem. The new modem downloads at 67Mbps and my MConnect Control settings for Tidal have changed dramatically. Masters files are 24 bit, 192K and 1750 kbps. When I was on a search for better hardware to stream MQA I selected PS Audio DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II. You can buy PSA hardware for about 33% off from HighPerformanceStereo.com. You won't be disappointed. For my big Magnepan speakers I got two M700 mono amps, again for about 33% off. I wish you could hear. I wish I could hear that too! Big Maggies with enough power are one of my all time favorites. Long ago I sold them and I remember selling a pair to someone after a demo with a big McIntosh integrated fed by an internet classical radio stream! We both just sat there and looked at each and laughed! He right then purchased a pair. David Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 16 hours ago, oneartist said: My problem was a bad modem. The new modem downloads at 67Mbps and my MConnect Control settings for Tidal have changed dramatically. Masters files are 24 bit, 192K and 1750 kbps. When I was on a search for better hardware to stream MQA I selected PS Audio DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II. Not sure about the logic of what you are saying is here. TIDAL's online servers only supply MQA masters streams undecoded, at a resolution of either 24/44.1kHz or 24/48kHz - so the PSA hardware won't be streaming (decoded) MQA at 24/192kHz from TIDAL. It's down to the receiving software or hardware player's processing power (which shouldn't need much) to decode the MQA streams, with the MQA core (aka 'first unfold') being at a resolution of either 24/176.4kHz for the 24/44.1kHz streams, or 24/192kHz for the 24/48kHz streams. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Geoff1954 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cebolla said: Not sure about the logic of what you are saying is here. TIDAL's online servers only supply MQA masters streams undecoded, at a resolution of either 24/44.1kHz or 24/48kHz - so the PSA hardware won't be streaming (decoded) MQA at 24/192kHz from TIDAL. It's down to the receiving software or hardware player's processing power (which shouldn't need much) to decode the MQA streams, with the MQA core (aka 'first unfold') being at a resolution of either 24/176.4kHz for the 24/44.1kHz streams, or 24/192kHz for the 24/48kHz streams. Actually that is true in some cases but not others. If one is on an iMac -- as I am -- the Tidal software does offer the decoded MQA file. In other words it performs the first unfold. A DAC that is qualified as a "renderer" of MQA -- such as PS Audio's product -- CAN perform the second unfold. But while I do not have such a DAC, I do get the benefit of the first unfold as long as I play the Master file from my iMac. (Mobile Mac devices can't do that.) This is confirmed by my own experience of a few months as well as by a recent detailed conversation by phone with a knowledgable MQA rep. Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 This is from the display on MconnectControl Tidal via iPad: MQA 192 k, 24 bit, 1671 kbps Coldplay Trouble. MConnect Control is the software of choice for Bridge II. One odd thing is that while I had a modem issue, even at 96 kbps through my DirectStream DAC there were no drop outs or other common problems. I have Tidal on my laptop and the long pauses and stops happen as described here, but not with DS. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Geoff1954 said: Actually that is true in some cases but not others. If one is on an iMac -- as I am -- the Tidal software does offer the decoded MQA file. In other words it performs the first unfold. A DAC that is qualified as a "renderer" of MQA -- such as PS Audio's product -- CAN perform the second unfold. But while I do not have such a DAC, I do get the benefit of the first unfold as long as I play the Master file from my iMac. (Mobile Mac devices can't do that.) This is confirmed by my own experience of a few months as well as by a recent detailed conversation by phone with a knowledgable MQA rep. All you are doing in the first part is confirming exactly what I just said - the TIDAL desktop app is the (software) player that receives the undecoded MQA masters files over the internet from TIDAL's online server. The TIDAL desktop app decodes and plays the received MQA file and the resulting MQA core/ first unfold LPCM audio signal then gets sent to the DAC. DACs do not receive audio files, be they decoded MQA or otherwise! We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, oneartist said: This is from the display on MconnectControl Tidal via iPad: MQA 192 k, 24 bit, 1671 kbps Coldplay Trouble. MConnect Control is the software of choice for Bridge II. One odd thing is that while I had a modem issue, even at 96 kbps through my DirectStream DAC there were no drop outs or other common problems. I have Tidal on my laptop and the long pauses and stops happen as described here, but not with DS. Well, either the mconnect Control app is receiving the undecoded MQA file from the TIDAL online server and decoding it for the Bridge II, or the mconnect Control app is simply displaying what the Bridge II itself is decoding the MQA file received from the TIDAL online server. For the sake of network efficiency, I'm hoping it's the later, but who knows what the Bridge II in its guise as an "mconnect compatible" network audio product is doing. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, Cebolla said: .... MQA core/ first unfold LPCM audio signal then gets sent to the DAC. LPCM? I followed you until LPCM. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Yep, a bog standard LPCM signal. What else would you send to a DAC, otherwise (and don't be a smartarse and mention DSD)? We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
oneartist Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Paul McGowan of PS Audio said he would not allow any MQA processing to happen in the prestine atmosphere of the DirectStream DAC. Bridge II is an insert card that goes into a slot of the DirectStream box and that is where MQA is unfolded. MConnect Control is tied into the firmware of Bridge II. But, Paul says that work is being done by PSA engineers to create proprietary hardware in Bridge III that will not only process MQA but also become a music server on it's own. It will happen by the end of the year. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Ok, good. I already knew the Bridge II was an industry standard UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio file player and it looks like its support for the mconnect proprietary online streaming services provision simply extends the Bridge II's function as an audio file player. In which case the Bridge II is receiving TIDAL's MQA masters files over the internet, so at a resolution of either 24/44.1kHz or 24/48kHz - ie, we are back to me not understanding why your original modem couldn't cope with this. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 One of my disappointments with my newly purchased PSAudio DS DAC / Bridge II combination is that until Bridge III and Octave I have to use mConnect to access the full MQA experience. mConnect is the worse control point software I have used. Imagine creating a control point player that does not allow you to select tracks to add to a queue. That's the Tidal experience using mConnect. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I feel your pain. Reminds me of the lack of gapless support fiasco with the original Bridge. We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Geoff1954 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Cebolla, you wrote, "All you are doing in the first part is confirming exactly what I just said..." Always glad when I can confirm something said by someone who always knew he was right to begin with. Have a nice day. Link to comment
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