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Official TIDAL HIFI Streaming Issues Thread


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2 hours ago, kiwi2000 said:

I have not been to this forum in a long while. I now have a Marantz AV-7704, Oppo 103 and a subscription to Tidal Hi-Fi. I have an app called HEOS which is convienent but does not allow for the pass through of MQA quailty audio from Tidal. The app also does not display the full Tidal web site information whcih I can access if I use Bluetooth via my android phone and play it through the AV-7704. But no MQA that way either.

 

My question for the forum is how can I access the MQA content I am paying for and play it through the AV-7704? If I am in the wrong area please let me know where I should post this question. I am looking at a new PC and am not averse to purchasing something to allow me to access these files from PC to the Marantz. Please advise. 

 

Here are three relatively non-complex examples of what you can do at different price levels:

Connect via USB to the Oppo:
(1) the UAPP app with the MQA decoding option on your Android, using a USB OTG cable (though not all phones can drive all DACs), or
(2) the Tidal app on an inexpensive fanless mini PC with a wireless keyboard and a small screen (or a nearby TV), or,
(3) third-party software that includes Tidal, like Roon, Audirvana, or Amarra, on a fanless PC that meets their requirements, controllable with a wireless keyboard and by a matching phone/tablet app from the same software company.

All of those options include MQA 1x software decoding. There are many other ways to do this, some cheaper and more technical, some more expensive and more plug-and-play, some all of the above. Also at some point you may want to consider a DAC capable of full 4x MQA decoding.

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22 minutes ago, kiwi2000 said:

Hi, Thanks for the reply.

 

I am looking for a wireless solution first. I have seen a wireless HDMI connecter that I could connect from PC to the 7704 but that will not operate Tidal from the PC.

I have a Samsung S2 tablet is that what you are referring as a mini pc?

I am getting a new PC and can add WiFi or duel HDMI  but control is the issue.

If I purchase a  full 4X MQA decoding dac or have one installed  into the new PC how do I access tracks etc? It is quite maddening to pay for a service that I cannot access. 

 

Tidal says , " MQA is only available in the latest desktop client version "?

 

Glad to help.

Options (2) and (3) include wireless control via a wireless keyboard.
Option (3) includes wireless control via a third-party app on your phone.

The Samsung S2 is an Android tablet. An example of a fanless mini PC is my Logic Supply CL100. The CL100 would work great for Option (2), but Option (3) would require a PC that is at least a bit more powerful.

Buying an MQA DAC is a big research/shopping project. Normally this would be an external box you insert between your PC and your Marantz. Also there are third-party streaming products from companies like Bluesound that include internal MQA-compatible DACs. I expect others will chime in here at any moment with more and more expensive options.

Everything I have suggested is MQA compatible. Different Tidal web pages with MQA support and MQA partnership information can be confusing and contradictory.
 

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6 hours ago, MusicStreamer said:

hi expert folks!

 

I've been wrestling with the best way to stream TIDAL (particularly MQA files) from my android phone to my Onkyo TX-8270 receiver.

 

First the good news:

- In the last month, the Onkto TX-8270 recieved a firmware update which means it can now handle MQA files. (Whoop for that!)

- In the last couple of days the TIDAL android app received an update so that it could play MQA files.

 

Now the complications:

I can play TIDAL MQA tracks directly to the Onkyo receiver from my phone with the mconnect lite app. Technically this works fine, but the mconnect/TIDAL integration is only so-so, and so is a bit of a pain. mconnect achieves this by sending the files to an OpenHome renderer i set up on the Onkyo receiver (i set this up by accident, if truth be told - i was just having a bit of a play around!). 

 

The TIDAL android app will play Masters quality files directly on the phone device, but when i try to cast to the Onkyo receiver (the Onkyo has a built in Chromecast audio) it drops back down to hi-fi quality.

 

This seems to be an issue with the cast function within the Onkyo, as when i try and 'cast' MQA TIDAL tracks from the mconnect app

to the Onkyo (rather than via the OpenHome renderer) it says that there's a problem, and refuses to connect.

 

So - to my questions:

Is there something i'm not doin right about the 'cast' function. Is there a way i can cast MQA tracks directly from the TIDAL app to my Onkyo? (It just seems odd that the app can handle MQA, the receiver's DAC can handle MQA, but there seems to be a bit in the middle (the cast function?) that refuses to play ball)

 

Or, is there another way of playing TIDAL's MQA tracks from my phone to the Onkyo that i'm not aware of (that has better TIDAL integration than mconnect)?

 

Or, am i stuck with mconnect?

 

Thanks for any help/advice you can give!

 

 

 

A wireless solution for your Onkyo would, at the moment, require additional third-party hardware and software to get an MQA signal to the newly MQA-capable DAC inside. Recent updates to the Tidal Android app added MQA decoding inside a phone, but there is no official support for playing MQA via wireless or USB connections. Those signals get resampled by the Android OS to 48 kHz. Although some phone-to-DAC combinations via USB seem to detect a decoded MQA that could be further processed by an MQA "renderer" DAC, the results are very inconsistent and probably an illusion, while wireless UPnP or Cast connections clearly only send a resampled non-MQA stream.

Here's the tl;dr background. Last year the app was updated to support full 4x MQA decoding via the internal DACs of the LG V30 series phones and Essential phones, though it reportedly munges 16/44.1 streams by allowing the OS to resample them to 48 kHz. This month the Tidal app was updated to do 1x MQA software decoding inside all Android devices but not via external connections, and it still allows 16/44.1 tracks to be resampled to 48 kHz, so that's inconsistent as is the overall MQA implementation depending on Android model. Tidal has not done anything to bypass Android OS system limitations or ensure compatibility with all Android devices.

The third-party UAPP app does get around the OS and avoid that resampling problem, but only for internal playback or USB connections. So, as I wrote above, a wireless solution for your Onkyo would at the moment, require additional hardware and software. Some of those solutions may cost more than your receiver and that's big new topic, so let's only go there if you're in the market for that kind of upgrade.

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1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

 

The mConnect Player app also avoids any resampling for its internal player and for output via the Android device's USB audio.

 

However the MQA signal gets passed through undecoded as it does not have UAPP's option to (software) decode it to the MQA Core (first unfold) - hence is only really useful for either the very few Android devices that have internal MQA supporting hardware or you connect it to a USB DAC that can fully decode MQA.

 

Yes, I only mentioned UAPP because it offers an optional 1x MQA software decoder.

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41 minutes ago, MusicStreamer said:

hi folks

 

thanks for giving some of your time and brainpower to this! (and apologies, my relative ignorance means that i'm almost certainly using imprecise language, which will be adding to the confusion)

 

the onkyo thinks its receiving and playing MQA tracks when connected via its "Music Server" function (rather than its Chromecast function). I've attached a screenshot of the OSD from one of TIDAL's MQA playlists. It says that it's playing the MQA track at 192 khz. (By way of comparison, you can see what it says when playing a 'normal' FLAC track in the second image.)

 

This was the "playing around" i did to enable this:

1) I used the Bubble UpnP server software to set up an OpenHome media renderer (see the third image) i.e. i ticked the box saying "create an OpenHome renderer" in the relevant tab. I literally had no idea what i was doing at this point, i was just experimenting with Bubble UpnP to see if i could make it work as an MQA player (I couldn't get it to work in that way)

2) Weeks later (after the Onkyo receiver had got its MQA firmware update) when i was using the mconnect app, i noticed that it offered me the choice of connecting to an UpNP device called Onkyo.... (see image 4)

3) When i tried playing to that device, i noticed that the Onkyo receiver was telling me that it was playing the MQA tracks (as per the first screenshot).

 

THe receiver also is giving other signs that it is receiving and decoding MQA tracks. When it plays an MQA track, it disables the tone function. Having tested this with a variety of MQA/non MQA tracks, i can confirm that it definitely thinks it's playing/decoding at MQA level

 

And interestingly, when i tried playing the same MQA track to the Onkyo via the ChromeCast option on mconnect (see image 4), the tone function was not disabled. (so the receiver didn't think it was playing an MQA track).

 

So , that's what i'm doing at the moment. the mconnect seems to work to play MQA wirelessly. But like i say mconnect's TIDAL integration is a litttle clunky.

 

Am i right in thinking that the UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro?) app that you mention will only play over a wired connection. I was wanting to try it out, but it doesn't seem to have a free 'test' option.

 

Thans again for all your help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

onkyo mqa screenshot.jpg

onkyo non-MQA screenshot.jpg

Screenshot 2019-01-13 15.55.50.png

mconnect Screenshot.jpg

 

25 minutes ago, MusicStreamer said:

oh, i should also say that the onkyo will play TIDAL MQA tracks via its own "onkyo controller" app. It does this by controlling the TIDAL integration which is baked into the firmware. THis produces similar results to screenshot one. However, the actual TIDAL integration on the Onkyo Controller app is awful. (It's menu based, and like going back in time to pre Windows 95 days....)

 

Eureka! (I seem to be saying that a lot on this site.) Thanks for enduring my rant about the Tidal app — lately I'm easily triggered when it comes to that situation — and for providing more information on your adventures.

So the Onkyo is connected to your LAN, and you're able to play MQA tracks to it as a UPnP device but not via Cast. We're seeing improvements every day! Wonderful. Too bad you don't get the other content in the official Tidal app itself, but you can quickly switch back-and-forth between apps. And with mconnect you also have the option of trying Qobuz. Good deal.

 

41 minutes ago, MusicStreamer said:

Am i right in thinking that the UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro?) app that you mention will only play over a wired connection. I was wanting to try it out, but it doesn't seem to have a free 'test' option.

 

Yes, at the moment UAPP supports only internal DACs and external USB DACs. It does access UPnP servers, and will be a UPnP renderer itself. Other users are asking for more UPnP features and maybe Cast too. It couldn't hurt to add your voice to the UAPP support thread over on head-fi. 

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36 minutes ago, kiwi2000 said:

I used to have a PC connected to the Oppo via HDMI. I was able to access content from the PC and controlled it via my phone using Kodi remote called Kore. The PC broke. BUT now if I can access full MQA through a PC connected to the Oppo using my phone as a controller to access the entire Tidal site instead of the truncated site offered by HEOS maybe that is the way to go?

 

I also have a music server option within the 7704, it is WiFi and bluetooth capable possibly I could access the full Tidal site in this manner? 

 

Maybe Oppo has upgraded Tidal to include MQA?

 

A PC would be the easiest solution for me. Other choices include a Bluesound Node 2 or similar products connected to the Marantz, though those work via their own apps.

I'm clearly no expert on all these components, but Google tells me only the Oppo 205 has received an MQA upgrade. I don't know if excluding the 103 was a business choice or a limitation of its hardware, but now that Oppo has dropped audio to focus on mobile phones I doubt that will change.

Similarly, Marantz has not upgraded the 7704 to support MQA. But you may at least be able to stream CD-quality to it, and that could perhaps be done via mconnect as described with the Marantz on a wired LAN that your handheld device is also on via Wi-Fi, and maybe via other apps and with diminishing returns using Wi-Fi or the lowest choice on my list which is Bluetooth. But you want MQA, so it's back to the first paragraph here.

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33 minutes ago, kiwi2000 said:

Marantz informs me that I am recieving CD quality sound whether I am sending the Tidal signal via bluetooth or through the HEOS app. Like I said prevoius I had a PC connected to the Oppo until the PC broke, quite a while back. I did not set the PC up and the tech person that did is no longer around. I also do not remember how I controlled the PC although I do remember it was quite a convoluted method. Kodi and Kore were involved. Kodi had nothing in regards to graphics on the current version of Tidal.

 

I seriously doubt the Marantz rep is right about Bluetooth. Wired or at worst Wi-Fi are the ways to send CD-quality sound. I don't know about HEOS. Regardless, neither will get you MQA.

Everything I have suggested for a PC is far less difficult than a Kodi/Kore combo. Just normal apps with good support and nothing deeply DIY about them. There are plenty of people on this site that can help with any of those.

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1 hour ago, kiwi2000 said:

What about this plugged direct into either Oppo or Marantz and some way to control it via smart phone apphttps://www.amazon.ca/AWOW-Computer-Stick-Windows-64-bit/dp/B073QL5NRG/ref=asc_df_B074KVYH5H/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292954324246&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4513818582377289882&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001172&hvtargid=pla-624228704127&th=1,?

 

What about a wireless HDMI connection https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Wireless-Digital-Channel-GW3DHDKIT/dp/B00630WKGI from PC to either Oppo or Marantz from the main PC and some way to control it via smart phone, same price for either?

 

Purchasing another peice of equipment like Bluesound Node 2 leaves me wondering why with all the tech available and already onhand why do I require yet another pieie of gear? There must be a better way.

 

 

What's making this hard is you want MQA. For non-MQA streaming, I'd install the free LMS/Squeezebox Server on that little Atom PC, configure it remotely from my main PC, and control it remotely with my smartphone. But MQA is new, so your options are more limited right now.

I'm not at all certain you'll get good results sending the audio via HDMI, and even less so with wireless. You can try it, but you'll probably wind up adding a USB DAC, especially if you want full 4x MQA decoding. And I've suggested a wireless keyboard controlling the stock Tidal app, but if you really want smartphone control you'll need a third-party app, and MQA-compatible options include Audirvana on a more powerful PC.

So, with PC+DAC and maybe third-party software, you'll quickly be in the price range of that Bluesound which offers much less of a setup headache. I've mentioned various other options in previous posts while trying to limit the cost of new hardware, but the problem is that right now MQA is an audiophile thing, and home networking setups for that only go up in price from what I've suggested so far. Like Roon.

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45 minutes ago, kiwi2000 said:

I have purchased this PC https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/hp-pavilion-desktop-pc-natural-silver-intel-core-i5-8400-1tb-hdd-128gb-ssd-8gb-ram-win-10-eng/12547155.aspx?icmp=Recos_3across_tp_sllng_prdcts. It has built in Wi-Fi and Blu tooth. 

Maybe it is a moot point then? Or can I use this PC or any other PC in what fashion to get MQA? Connect via HDMI. and.

 

Marantz states their product does not support MQA as reproduced below. thier response in red.

This is the response I recived from Oppo regarding connection for MQA.

 

The BDP-103 is not capable of MQA.  You will have to connect a HDMI from the PC to the BDP-103 because the USB ports on the player is for USB storage devices.

 

 

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OT Service, Inc.

162 Constitution Dr.

Menlo Park, CA 94025

[email protected]

 

From Marantz

.How can I access the next tier of audio from Tidal MQA, (SACD quality) and play it through the 7704?
A3.2: You can't as none of our equipment supports MQA or Tidal Masters.
 
 

 

You can use the Tidal app itself to decode MQA (to the first "unfold"). I would connect the PC directly to the Marantz and forget about the Oppo at this point. 

An external MQA-capable DAC would give you the full "4x" unfolding. At that point you'd connect the PC to the DAC via USB, and the DAC to the Marantz via RCA. But there's no guarantee you'd hear a difference from that MQA upgrade, or even from upgrading to an external DAC in general, though many of us do. 

I suggest you first start with the basics per my first paragraph: the Tidal app on the PC, connected to the Marantz via HDMI, with the app doing 1x MQA decoding. Maybe with a wireless keyboard like the Logitech K400 Plus. If that isn't enough of a remote control for you, the next step could be a software upgrade to the MQA-capable Audirvana+. 

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11 hours ago, kiwi2000 said:

Thank you for your perserverance. I have had that same old PC repaired it is now working.

Old PC to Marantz via HDMI. When connected in this manner I should see the PC screen on the TV monitor when the appropriate input on the Marantz is selected, then a wireless keyboard will control the image on the screen for track select from Tidal etc?

 

Yes, that's the plan!

 

11 hours ago, kiwi2000 said:

 

I think you'll be fine without WiFi in the PC. WiFi would really only be useful for control of the Tidal app in the Marantz, which won't get you MQA or the benefit of seeing the PC app on the screen. And a wired connection to the Internet is usually better than WiFi for streaming overall.

 

11 hours ago, kiwi2000 said:

I want a wireless keyboard for the new PC anyhow so I can try it out on the old PC I suppose. Thanks for all of the help I will connect the old PC and see what happens. Hopefully good things occur.

 

Agreed, that keyboard will make either PC more fun. Good luck! Enjoy, and please let us know how it's working. If you decide to add to the system in any way, we'll be here with ideas for you. 

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  • 2 months later...

@amuzaed1 @audio.bill @Cebolla as far as I know the Tidal app for Android still does not support Masters/MQA via USB to an external DAC. For that you'll need the UAPP app.  I use UAPP for Tidal, Qobuz, Internet Radio, UPnP/DLNA, and local playback. With an MQA-compatible DAC, the MQA add-on option is not necessary. Website || Play Store || Head-Fi thread

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@Cebolla that's interesting and new information, thank you, but for most it may be the exception that proves the rule. The Huawei Mate 10 internal DAC supports 32/384. I can't find information on USB output, but with such high-end specs perhaps the Huawei developers also devoted time to a way around Android OS audio resampling for both internal and external DACs.

 

Most Android devices, even the LG V30 and its cousins, resample to 48 kHz. Others resample to 96 kHz or to 44.1, but they do resample, and that interferes with MQA decoding. Last time I tested this, the Tidal app was only able to bypass that for internal playback of MQA (while still allowing resampling of internal CD-quality playback and all external playback).

The Huawei devs may have customized the Android OS to get around that. Fascinating. But if this isn't available for most Android devices, that iFi video is not a realistic demo and may result in some angry customers.

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1 hour ago, amuzaed1 said:

The mqa website says it's available on android devices. Also been suggested I try usb audio player pro by extreamsd.

 

The MQA website says it's fully available on specific Android devices, not all. The devices listed there have audiophile DACs and MQA firmware. Those devices are capable of the full 4x unfolding, but others can get the basic 1x unfolding from the Tidal app. However, on the majority of Android devices including all or most of those listed on the MQA website, the OS will still resample CD-quality tracks and all USB audio output. The resampling of USB output prevents MQA decoding by external DACs, which was the topic of the previous posts. UAPP is the best way around these problems.

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  • 1 month later...

It seems to me this is negligence indeed, but it does not rise to the level of criminal. However, on another nefarious note...why would Masters be disappearing from the catalog? Jazz Samba (Getz/Byrd). Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band  (Beatles). Is this only in the US catalog? I first saw these reported missing by a Tidal user on head-fi.

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56 minutes ago, phosphorein said:

 

I see the deluxe version of Sgt. Pepper’s in MQA in Tidal via Audirvana.

 

Thanks! I see an MQA version of the "Super Deluxe" release now. Maybe it was a question of which release... I seem to recall another release in MQA. But anyway, the Jazz Samba MQA is still MIA. It's a magical mystery.

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