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What to expect Konnekt 8


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HI to all, my first post here.

 

I have just ordered a Konnekt 8 to use with my Mac Mini server, i.e firewire out to Konnekt 8 then co-ax digital cable from the Konnekt 8 to my Lavry DA10. The co-ax cable for now is just a Profigold cheapie. Can I expect an improvement over the mini toslink connection (Chord Optichord) currently being used between Mac and Lavry? Also, can I run the Konnekt 8 off the firewire bus, or should I use the power adaptor?

 

Also, will this set up be compatible with Amarra? I have the demo but TBH, I was quite disappointed with it in my current set up, although I have to admit I only tested it briefly.

 

Regards

 

Allen

 

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I've been thinking about trying the Konnekt8 with my Mac Mini, so am very curious to learn how it goes for you, Allen. Please let us know what you think once you get it up and running.

 

Dan

 

Mac Mini 5,1 [i5, 2.3 GHz, 8GB, Mavericks] w/ Roon -> Ethernet -> TP Link fiber conversion segment -> microRendu w/ LPS-1 -> Schiit Yggdrasil

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I'm also keen to hear about this. Why did you not go for the cheaper Konnekt 6 ?

 

Edit: I checked the specs & see that the Konnekt 6 does not have SPDIF out - I wonder how easy it would be to mod it to include this?

 

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Firewire from a Mac mini, the clock in the connect in charge.

My speakers have built-in DACs and amplifiers, and coax spdif IN - so I'm basically using the connect as you intend to, as a pass-through unit.

 

Very pleased with the result. Have also tried various filters, using DAW software (GarageBand, Cubase, Soundblade etc.) For instance possible to use ARC room correction, have the audio processed by software, and then sent through the Konnekt to a system. Would be nice if iTunes could incorporate Audio Units (AU).

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/arc/features/

 

Tried external clocks, but the INTERNAL clock does a great job. Am upsampling from 44.1 to 88.2. The Konnekt runs my Audio MIDI Setup.

 

Don\'t sample, listen!

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soundproof, what external clocks did you try? were you using the external PS or firewire PS? What speed clock is installed in the Konnekt?

 

I was thinking of doing some mods to a konnekt 6 to output I2S (rather than SPDIF) - has anybody got a pic of the innards or a schematic?

 

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Without wanting to divert this thread away from debating if the Konnekt 8 is going to improve SQ, I just want to suggest jkenny refers to this thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/I2S-it-good-external-interconnect-Give-your-opinion-and-findings with reference to converting a Konnekt 6 to output i2s.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Eloise,

I've read that thread & it's full of confusion & unsubstantiated statements (particularly Gordon's one about I2S only good for 2cm signal length). What I'm looking to do is use Firewire in the Konnekt to retrieve data from the PC & then I2S to transport this to a DAC (the DAC may well be implemented within the Konnekt). That thread seems to compare I2S to SPDIF to Firewire to asynch USB as the means of retrieval of audio from PC!

 

But if you wish to continue this discussion let's do so on the I2S thread.

 

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Allen, congrats on the new purchase.

 

Regarding whether it is compatible with Amarra, I would check with Sonic Studio. The last time I asked (about a month ago), it was not compatible. But I know they are regularly approving new devices, so it might be compatible now.

 

I look forward to your update on how it sounds :)

 

Gary

 

Intel NUC NUC8i7BEH Roon Server running Audio Linux in RAM -> Sonore UltraRendu (Roon Endpoint) -> Uptone ISO Regen -> Singxer SU-1 KTE -> Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC -> Nord One UP Monoblocks -> Spendor LS3/5as | Music controlled via iPad (Power Conditioning: Audience adeptResponse aR12).  Twitter: @hirezaudio

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I wanted to explore whether the toslink connection between my MacMini and Lavry DA10 could be improved upon. I use the Chord Optichord connecting lead to avoid the horrible plastic adaptor that's necessary with most other toslink cables (I have never quite understood why Apple couldn't just provide a normal toslink out on their equipment).

 

So I took a punt on the K8 to use firewire out of the MacMini, at less than £200 it's less than what many of us spend on a cable. The K8 is physically bigger than I thought it would be, slightly wider than the DA10 but not as deep, a bit of an ugly duckling, but then this is pro-audio kit, as such it seems to be well meade and robust.

 

I downloaded the latest 'TCNear' software and driver package, installed this on the Mini, connected up the K8, no problems here,the driver installs and the 'TCNear" shows up in the system preferences and the audio midi control panel. I then updated the firmware which is necessary to match the software supplied. I am using the firewire bus to power the K8, I did not want another power adaptor if at all possible.

 

Now as some people have mentioned, albeit with maybe earlier versions, the software is not all that intuitive, it took me a little while to suss out what settings were needed. Going for the SPDIF settings is a red herring as this relates to connected equipment, effectively the unit in this situation has to be set for the internal Konnekt mixer, thereby it takes over the clocking duties away from the Mac.

 

I have used a reasonable quality cheapie digital coax cable to connect the K8 to the DA10, definately some improvements could be had there with a better cable.

 

OK, the important bit. There is definately an improvement in audio quality using the firewire output from the Mac, overall it seems to bring more lucidity to the soundstage. It's not huge, but through my system (552/500/NBL's) it's noticeable. Not being great at describing subjective impressions, I would say it's akin to the difference one hears between a CDX2 and a CDS3 from Naim's CDP range. Not as big certainly, but along those lines. There seems to be some digital hash on the previous toslink connection, (probably the inherent and infamous jitter) but it wasn't something that I had noticed particularly, only with this different setup has it just become perceptible. The firewire setup just sounds that little bit clearer and incisive, instruments and voices do not seem to have any 'edge' to them. One metaphor I can use here (only because I find it easier to describe the differences I am hearing here) is, if for instance you take Madonna's Ray of Light title track, it's very busy, a lot going on in all areas. I have always found this track can seem very harsh at volume depending on how well any system copes with it. It can cut through you, to me it's a good test of the system set up. The firewire K8 setup, it feels like the music hits you and cuts through you with a very sharp and clean blade, the toslink connection, it feels like the blade is ever so slightly blunt, it's it's got an ever so slight rough edge to it.

 

So, I am not suggesting everyone should go out and get a K8, but it's proved worthwhile for me given my preference for the Mac / iTunes / iPod Touch remote that I like to use now. I don't like the extra box count, but I guess the K8 could be tucked away, there is no inter-action with it once connected, only through the software if necessary.

 

The Amarra software just isn't doing it for me, I have now tried the full demo and the mini demo. Full demo no difference. Mini demo, I heard a difference but rather than opening things out, it closed things in a bit. The full demo definately appears to be working, the meters jump up and down, and I get the intermittent breaks in playback on the demo version. I am using AIFF files to check this out. Maybe it's just not compatible with the K8 or Lavry. Maybe the MacMini / Konnekt 8 / Lavry is just performing really well, it certainly sounds that way. My system is very revealing so I would expect to pick up the differences easily.

 

Regards

 

Allen

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I picked up a Konnekt 8. Have had it in the system only for a couple of days, comparing it to USB via an Empirical Audio Offramp. My configurations:

 

Mac Mini -> USB -> EA Offramp Turbo3 -> S/PDIF (or AES/EBU) -> Bryston BDA-1

Mac Mini -> Firewire -> Konnekt 8 -> S/PDIF -> Bryston BDA-1

 

All I can say at this point is it sure sounds different.

 

The Konnekt 8 is supposed to support up to 192K, so I bought a Reference Recordings HRX disc. But I can't get it to play.

 

Mac Mini 5,1 [i5, 2.3 GHz, 8GB, Mavericks] w/ Roon -> Ethernet -> TP Link fiber conversion segment -> microRendu w/ LPS-1 -> Schiit Yggdrasil

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The Konnekt is limited to 96K on the digital out, 192K is with internal DA only.

 

Interested in hearing if sounds different equates to better.

 

Steve from EA trashed the Konnekt 8 a while back on this forum; it would be interesting to find out what one of his customers thinks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PC running XP pro, C Play, TC Electonic Konnect 8 Firewire to Spdif, 2 Lyngdorf 2200TDAi amplifiers, Synergy Acoustics crossoverless monitors driven actively by the 2200TDAi\'s, custom subwoofers driven by a Lyngdorf SDA2175

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http://www.computeraudiophile.com/Audiophile-Reference-Music-Server-For-A-Song

 

Scroll down this thread and you will find it.

 

Regards

 

Shawn

 

PC running XP pro, C Play, TC Electonic Konnect 8 Firewire to Spdif, 2 Lyngdorf 2200TDAi amplifiers, Synergy Acoustics crossoverless monitors driven actively by the 2200TDAi\'s, custom subwoofers driven by a Lyngdorf SDA2175

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http://www.computeraudiophile.com/Audiophile-Reference-Music-Server-For-A-Song

 

Scroll down this thread and you will find it.

 

Regards

 

Shawn

 

PC running XP pro, C Play, TC Electonic Konnect 8 Firewire to Spdif, 2 Lyngdorf 2200TDAi amplifiers, Synergy Acoustics crossoverless monitors driven actively by the 2200TDAi\'s, custom subwoofers driven by a Lyngdorf SDA2175

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What if Steve actually tried a Konnekt? Would it be better or worse than his assessment then?

 

He writes:

 

"I had a Konnect in the system last weekend and we compared it to my own USB converters. From what I had read on the DiceII chip and the JET jitter reduction technology, we had high hopes. Well, it's not even close to a good USB implementation I'm sorry to say. It is not asynchronous, so it is similar to typical USB interfaces. It can probably sound better than this particular device, but it comes down to implementation. The Konnect board has a lot of deficiencies IMO, not to mention a really cheap clock. What do you expect for $100?"

 

I have been hunting high and low, maybe the USB connection is on the underside of the unit behind a secret portal only known to Steve? At any rate it's a secret passageway to the Konnekt unknown even to its makers:

 

http://www.tcelectronic.com/konnekt8techspecs.asp

 

I have a 24D myself, and am using the FW out, which is similar to that used by Weiss.

 

 

 

 

 

Don\'t sample, listen!

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Sorry Soundproof ... but I don't see anything in the quote you posted from Steve where he suggests that the TC Konnekt is USB. He says he COMPARED it to his own (Empiracle Audio) USB converted and says it's similar to a typical USB interface ... but no where in that quote does it say the Konnekt 8 was (erm...) connected via USB. Its also a little unfair to comment on what Steve's posted when he's not here any more to respond (IMO).

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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So I had no idea as to Steve's departure. He's very active everywhere else on the audio-net.

 

But his "review" of the Konnekt, which he even misspelled, didn't ring true. Period.

 

Nothing unfair about commenting what's actually been written by people in this forum, whether they are here or not.

 

Steve says nothing about how the unit's been connected to his system, how it was set up or how it was used. He just slags it, without giving any specifics. I am pointing out the possible confusion in how he slags it, that's all.

 

If he'd written: I used the FW connection; described how he had set it up; explained how he monitored the output; and added how he carried out the comparison -- then I would have paid attention.

 

Now it's just another example of the typical M.O. of people with a vested interest wanting to steer customers away from very good audio implementations, because they are "too cheap."

 

Don\'t sample, listen!

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Soundproof, hear, hear, I agree completely with what you say - too often manufacturers on all forums are allowed this sort of nebulous criticism of a another product without any facts, figures or even balanced view. Typically they sling unsupported criticisms at the product and usually end it by saying "what do you expect for $XXXX" Sometimes it gets into racial prejudices, like products from China, etc.

 

My mother always told me :) - The first rule of reading anything on the internet is to check out the motivation of the writer! This is all too clear in most cases and should be brought to task when encountered so I applaud you Soundproof & we (the consumers) need more like you.

 

 

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Chris (owner / moderator) has repeatedly stated that the rules for manufacturers is that they should only answer direct questions on their products, not comment on competitors products or self-promotion beyond direct information. I think generally the forum works on this basis with the occasional slap on the wrist to remind members (I myself have made comments before about "trade members" self-promotion so do agree with you)

 

You are right that Steve's comments on the TC Konnekt were not on this basis, however the context of the original post needs to be considered as it was more of a discussion there. Personally I think those comments are best left at that, pointing out that Steve sells a competitor to the TC Konnekt so take his advice with a pinch of salt but don't beat him up with them (especially as he no longer posts here).

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Soundproof, I think you misinterpreted Steve's comment. I think his point was that he considers the Konnekt's Firewire receiver to be no better than a mediocre USB receiver. My interpretation is inserted in brackets:

 

"Well, it's [the Firewire input of the Konnekt] not even close to a good USB implementation I'm sorry to say. It [the Firewire input of the Konnekt] is not asynchronous, so it is similar to typical USB interfaces."

 

TC Konnekt's white paper and patent (US 7495516) appear to confirm Steve's statement that the Firewire interface is not asynchronous. The white paper and patent describe an improved PLL for filtering out jitter from the received data, but do not mention any Firewire flow control for reducing jitter in the Firewire data stream itself.

 

http://www.tcelectronic.com/Media/frandsen_travis_2006_clean_clocks_tc(1).pdf

 

Mac Mini (2012 i7) > HQPlayer > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7

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Thanks, Bob. I know that WP.

What you put in brackets might just as well be s/pdif optical or coax IN, to the Konnekt - we don't know, because Steve's not specific.

 

The WP says nothing about the FireWire input to the Konnekt. It deals with those conversions where jitter is an issue, and with tcelectronic's approach to same.

The FW adheres to these standards, meaning there's no reason to guess or surmise what it does or doesn't:

IEEE 1394a, S400, IEC 61883

 

I have no particular need to defend tc or the Konnekt units. Both are doing an excellent job, in their way, in an area that has more confusion than clarity.

For my particular use, where I'm applying the coax spdif output to an array of external DACs, the Konnekt 24D does a fine job.

 

Audio fora across the internet are filled with manufacturers plugging their own implementations, and it's quite bothersome.

I once posted a question in one forum, not this one, only to just fifteen minutes afterwards receive a "personal" e-mail from a well known hardware supplier who had just the solution to the problem I had posted about, and who wanted to point out the deficiences of the implementation I had pursued, which it was possible to do something about due to the insights said person had to proffer.

Needless to say, I was somewhat doubtful that it was the person in question who was sending out the e-mail, but it's a potentially very profitable way of harvesting customers.

Worth watching out for.

 

As to what works or not - as mentioned in this forum, Positive Feedback Online asked a number of leading lights as to what they would recommend.

It's worth the read, though it will take a while, and why not start with Steve's. The link to the others are on that page:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_nugent.htm

 

Once I had gone through all those replies, I understood that confusion was the name of the game in computer audio, even among those who were at "the edge of the envelope."

 

 

 

Don\'t sample, listen!

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My early listening impressions support Steve's comments. Which makes me wonder if I am using the Konnekt 8 correctly. Any users out there can to share their set-up and settings?

 

Mac Mini 5,1 [i5, 2.3 GHz, 8GB, Mavericks] w/ Roon -> Ethernet -> TP Link fiber conversion segment -> microRendu w/ LPS-1 -> Schiit Yggdrasil

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Dan - if you read my second posting in this thread I did mention briefly how I ended setting up my K8. With my Mac Mini the K8 takes over the clocking duties and the setting is for the K8 Mixer. As I am using as a straight convertor, all the other settings are pretty much irrelevant as there are no other inputs.

 

Referencing some of the other postings, I would reiterate that the purpose for me of the K8 was to utilise and compare the firewire output from the Mac into my Lavry DA10 (which doesn't have firewire), against the straight mini-toslink connection between Mac / Lavry DA10, so in my setup, to see if there was a difference. I reported a small but noticeable and valuable improvement.

 

I don't really want to comment on EA / Steve's indifference to the Konnekt, other than to say that he mentioned an implied cost of $100, which begs the question as to which Konnekt he was referring to? Was it the 6? Who knows, as far as I'm concerned and as others have said, I would take his comments with a 'pinch of salt'. And that's not getting on any 'high-horse' either just because I purchased the K8.

 

Regards

 

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I use a pc with a PCI firewire adapter with a Texas instrument chip recommended by TC. The TC Near software is a little finicky from what I have read and has been more troublesome with Macs.

 

Settings - 256 samples at 96k (I use up-sampling in C-Play) 128 samples @ 44k also sounds good

 

C-Play music player software which supports ASIO

 

You do not mention what software you are using. If you are using Itunes it does support ASIO which could be the reason for mediocre results.

 

PC running XP pro, C Play, TC Electonic Konnect 8 Firewire to Spdif, 2 Lyngdorf 2200TDAi amplifiers, Synergy Acoustics crossoverless monitors driven actively by the 2200TDAi\'s, custom subwoofers driven by a Lyngdorf SDA2175

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