Foobar2000 Interface streaming QUESTION, help please

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Can you use Foobar2000 Interface to play music over the network to a network AVR? To clarify, I don't want to use the AVR interface, I want to use foobar's interface to select and play music via the network (not usb)....I am trying to avoid using an external DAC and use the AVR's internal dac.

[Ned Kelly]

Can you use Foobar2000 Interface to play music over the network to a network AVR? To clarify, I don't want to use the AVR interface, I want to use foobar's interface to select and play music via the network (not usb)....I am trying to avoid using an external DAC and use the AVR's internal dac.

 

Just so that we're on the same page with the terminology -

 

Computer Audiophile - The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

 

Without knowing the specifics of your HT receiver, I believe many of the current models will function as DLNA renderers, meaning that your music will be routed to the receiver for playback via said receivers DAC, as you've requested. I've also played with F2K's UPnP server and it seems to work fine in that role, but what you are asking for is the ability to use F2K as the control point software. I havent explored the control point functionality offered by this module but it might be a good starting point:

 

foobar2000: Components Repository - UPnP/DLNA Renderer, Server, Control Point

 

To date, JRMC is the only application that I've used to do all 3 roles - server, renderer and control point. My experience with the iOS control point software I've used to date - including two that I paid for - hasnt been encouraging and the JRMC interface is considerably more pleasant to use, but the fact that you need a laptop kind of defeats one of the reasons for going to so much trouble in the first place. My dream has always been to be able to scroll through my music from an iPad and have said music played back without dropouts or glitches of any description - hope springs eternal that I'll get there very soon.

 

 

Good luck.

[davide256]

If your AVR supports UPNP streaming you don't want to use Foobar2000 as the control point... it doesn't have a good remote control app for streaming. You can use Foobar2000 or Twonky on a PC for your media server software and Bubble UPnP or Kinsky as your remote control software on Android tablet. I believe Marantz is enabling their receivers as network players

[Mike Mcsweeney]

If your AVR supports UPNP streaming you don't want to use Foobar2000 as the control point... it doesn't have a good remote control app for streaming. You can use Foobar2000 or Twonky on a PC for your media server software and Bubble UPnP or Kinsky as your remote control software on Android tablet. I believe Marantz is enabling their receivers as network players

 

Thanks all. I want to use foobar as the "control point". That is the main question.

I have it working nicely with a large touch screen monitor using a dac, but i sold the dac and i want to just go over ethernet. I haven't bought a reciever yet, but i want one that will do dsd (i know onkyo and sony both will)..but that is not the topic I am looking for.

 

I just want to know if i can use foobar as the control point and just configure the reciever somehow to accept the stream and play whatever is playing without having to use the avr as the control point. I like the interface of foobar. I made it simple and big so i can just touch the album and play it.

 

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Audio Elf>>foobar2000: Components Repository - UPnP/DLNA Renderer, Server, Control Point should allow you to do this.

If you have a spare computer (separate from your existing Foobar computer) you could experiment by setting Foobar up on that as a UPnP renderer.

 

 

I installed it already and i can control it from android phone, but how do i use it as control point. I don't see how i can configure it to play to avr or android from the foobar gui. I do see preferences control, but i can't find any documentation on it and don't see how i can add devices to play to. I will keep playing, but was hoping someone already did this that could tell me for sure, or know of any documentation on using it as a control point?

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Googling, I think it is the upnp media server function, not the upnp controller function. From another forum I read the media server function allows you to expose "what is currently playing", which is what I want. But I don't see how I tell it which device to send it to? Has anyone done this?

• UPnP AV Media Server
  expose the foobar2000 Media Library, playlists and "what is currently playing"
  

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Foobar was flaky trying to get setup for DLNA using it as a control point, but i got jriver working in 5 minutes as a control point...but i spent so much time on making a simple interface for foobar...i guess i will just try and learn how to create a simple skin like the one above.

[Cebolla]

Mike

 

The foo_UPnP component does provide a UPnP control point, as well as UPnP renderer and UPnP server. The UPnP control point, called UPnP Controller, is available from the view menu and by default appears in its own pop-up window. This doesn't make it very user friendly, but it can be integrated into Foobar2000's main UI as a panel.

 

Any UPnP renderer available on the network should appear in the drop down list box provided in the UPnP Controller, ready for selection. The UPnP Controller has its own playlist called UPnP Controller Playback Queue which appears on Fb2k's main UI as a normal playlist tab. You can only use the UPnP Controller's own playlist to play files to the selected UPnP renderer.

 

Also, you can only use the UPnP Controller panel's navigation buttons, volume control slider and seek slider to control the selected UPnP render and not the ones on Fb2k's main UI.

 

As well as a normal play button to play the files in the UPnP Controller Playback Queue, there's another one with a 'C' in it. This is actually a special function that gets the UPnP server to capture the local playback output sound of Fb2k (ie from its normal playlists) and send that to the selected UPnP renderer (similar to Airplay). The sound is sent either as a WAV file or an LPCM stream (aka L16), depending on how the UPnP server has been configured. This can be useful if the UPnP Controller's playlist file streaming to the renderer for some reason doesn't work well, eg, some of the navigation buttons or sliders don't work, gapless playback isn't supported by the renderer, the file types are not supported by the renderer and can't be sorted out by the UPnP Server's transcoding functions, etc. However, the sound capture and send feature can take a few seconds to buffer, so there's usually a bit of a lag when using Fb2k's main UI buttons.

 

Hope this is enough to get you going!

 

John

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Mike

 

The foo_UPnP component does provide a UPnP control point, as well as UPnP renderer and UPnP server. The UPnP control point, called UPnP Controller, is available from the view menu and by default appears in its own pop-up window. This doesn't make it very user friendly, but it can be integrated into Foobar2000's main UI as a panel.

 

Any UPnP renderer available on the network should appear in the drop down list box provided in the UPnP Controller, ready for selection. The UPnP Controller has its own playlist called UPnP Controller Playback Queue which appears on Fb2k's main UI as a normal playlist tab. You can only use the UPnP Controller's own playlist to play files to the selected UPnP renderer.

 

Also, you can only use the UPnP Controller panel's navigation buttons, volume control slider and seek slider to control the selected UPnP render and not the ones on Fb2k's main UI.

 

As well as a normal play button to play the files in the UPnP Controller Playback Queue, there's another one with a 'C' in it. This is actually a special function that gets the UPnP server to capture the local playback output sound of Fb2k (ie from its normal playlists) and send that to the selected UPnP renderer (similar to Airplay). The sound is sent either as a WAV file or an LPCM stream (aka L16), depending on how the UPnP server has been configured. This can be useful if the UPnP Controller's playlist file streaming to the renderer for some reason doesn't work well, eg, some of the navigation buttons or sliders don't work, gapless playback isn't supported by the renderer, the file types are not supported by the renderer and can't be sorted out by the UPnP Server's transcoding functions, etc. However, the sound capture and send feature can take a few seconds to buffer, so there's usually a bit of a lag when using Fb2k's main UI buttons.

 

Hope this is enough to get you going!

 

John

 

Thanks for all the info. I certainly couldn't find it documented. I did see the renderers in the drop down, and tried the capture button prior to reading your response, and it just makes one short blip and stops. That was probably because you said it outputs in wav form, and i was testing to my tv as renderer just as test, and maybe it didn't support wav file. Either way, i was able to get jriver working inside of 5 minutes and seems much better for that. I want to be able to stream dsd anyway, so i guess foobar won't work for that at all, so foobar is no longer an option. I will either decide to use foobar and dac or use jriver and figure out how to make a simple skin like the one i have pictured. My main effort is to just have a very simple skin with large buttons for a large touch screen monitor next to stereo (e.g. a jukebox) I know i can have remotes and they all have similar interface, but i want a large touch screen right next to stereo.

[Cebolla]

TVs aren't really the best devices to test with as UPnP/DLNA renderers. Audio_ELF's suggestion about installing Fb2k plus the foo_UPnP plugin on another Windows machine to use as a renderer for testing should prove more fruitful (once you get over the klunky configuration).

 

I certainly would expect JRiver to be more intuitive than Fb2k to get going with UPnP streaming, you do have to pay for the privilege, after all! You should be able to stream DSD using Fb2k as the control point, so that shouldn't be a reason not to go for it. I think your actual problem with UPnP/DLNA streaming of DSD files will be finding an AVR that can be used as a UPnP renderer for the purpose.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

TVs aren't really the best devices to test with as UPnP/DLNA renderers. Audio_ELF's suggestion about installing Fb2k plus the foo_UPnP plugin on another Windows machine to use as a renderer for testing should prove more fruitful (once you get over the klunky configuration).

 

I certainly would expect JRiver to be more intuitive than Fb2k to get going with UPnP streaming, you do have to pay for the privilege, after all! You should be able to stream DSD using Fb2k as the control point, so that shouldn't be a reason not to go for it. I think your actual problem with UPnP/DLNA streaming of DSD files will be finding an AVR that can be used as a UPnP renderer for the purpose.

I know a tv isn't the "ideal" renderer, but it was already setup...all I had to do was turn it on. The fact that Jriver was able to play to it in moments at least told me things were configured. You yourself said you couldn't use the main foobar interface to stream anything but wav files via the capture feature. That is the part that tells me it is not sufficient for me. The main reason I was going with foobar over jriver was for the simple main gui (shown above) which I don't seem to be able to do with jriver. I think I stand a better chance of getting an acceptable interface with jriver playing all file formats than an acceptable interface with foobar playing all the file formats. hmmm... I know a lot of people want a lot of components, but I would prefer a minimal amount of components, and ease of operation, and simplistic interface. I was thinking foobar->receiver dlna->amplifier (via preouts) and controlling with a large touch screen monitor would be ideal. But now I am thinking I have to decide on jriver->receiver dnla->NAD AMP OR foobar->dac->receiver->NAD amp.

[Cebolla]

Why can't you adapt your main GUI & replace the standard play buttons & sliders with the UPnP Controller panel? That way you use normal file streaming with the UPnP controller's own buttons and not the capture & stream special function.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

oh? I thought you were saying you couldn't do that?

besides the upnp controller buttons aren't working in foobar for me??

i am able to use jriver to both my tv and to my bluray player, but have the same symptoms to either from foobar. foobar just locks up when i hit play or capture.

 

if i use either the tv or the bluray players remote, i can access the foobar music...i just cant seem to play from the foobar interface to either the tv or the bluray.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Well I had foobar working for a short period by dragging files into a queue, but that is not what i wanted....it still seems flaky at best...however, i can't get a gui working in jriver that is acceptable to me, so i think i am going to just stick with foobar and use a dac until someone develops a good controlpoint component for foobar.

[realhifi]

 

hmmm... I know a lot of people want a lot of components, but I would prefer a minimal amount of components, and ease of operation, and simplistic interface.

 

Not many people I know want more components, they want less. I know I sure want less components, less software and less fiddling.

[Cebolla]

Depends on the person. Usually the ones that are into tethering a DAC to a computer are more prone to fiddling than those that prefer to use a purpose built device

 

Problem is there's a lot more info out there on how to set up a computer for straight forward music playback than there is for setting one up as a UPnP server and/or renderer and/or control point. Since these are normally extensions to the normal function of audio playback software, it's small wonder that there's more components involved. Foobar2000 being klunky to set up in the first place is going to be even more so as a UPnP device.

[Cebolla]

oh? I thought you were saying you couldn't do that?

besides the upnp controller buttons aren't working in foobar for me??

i am able to use jriver to both my tv and to my bluray player, but have the same symptoms to either from foobar. foobar just locks up when i hit play or capture.

 

if i use either the tv or the bluray players remote, i can access the foobar music...i just cant seem to play from the foobar interface to either the tv or the bluray.

No, that's not what I said. I did say in my first post that the UPnP controller is used for the purpose of streaming the music files (contained in the UPnP Control Playback Queue playlist), can be installed on Fb2k's main GUI, since it's also a panel and that the sound capture & stream button was there for exceptional circumstances. You probably missed it in the detail - it was a bit of a long post. Actually, JRiver has had sound capture as a feature request for quite a while now - not sure if it's been implemented yet.

 

 

 

Well I had foobar working for a short period by dragging files into a queue, but that is not what i wanted....it still seems flaky at best...however, i can't get a gui working in jriver that is acceptable to me, so i think i am going to just stick with foobar and use a dac until someone develops a good controlpoint component for foobar.

Ok it looks like you've got playlist file streaming working at least for a 'short period' (though you don't actually mention exactly how). What does 'for a short period' mean exactly?

The 'queue' that you mention dragging the files to, presumably is the the UPnP Contoller's UPnP Control Playback Queue playlist. That playlist should appear alongside the ones you've already set up originally for playback. Is it really that much of an effort to select them all from one playlist and drop them in another? I've had very little experience configuring Fb2k's UI, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a way to automate this is some way.

Also did you get rid of the main UI's buttons and attach the UPnP Controller as a panel to it? That would get rid of the awkwardness of using a separate window to control the playback and avoid the confusion of using the wrong set of buttons.

 

The thing to bear in mind is that if you are using Fb2k's own music library, the foo_UPnP component automatically provides you with a UPnP media server to make that library accessable to UPnP devices on the network. It has many functions to enable the UPnP renderers to properly playback the music files they are streaming from it. You therefore have to make sure that the foo_UPnP server is set up correctly for every UPnP renderer you are intended to use Fb2k's music library for. This is especially the case for some the foo_UPnP server's transcoding features that are set up by default, which may not be required by the connecting UPnP renderer and in some cases can cause the playback to fail.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

I modified the skin to have a upnp controller and the regular playlist..it seemed fine. I played so much with both the sony bluray player and fb interface when i finally got it working, not sure what i did differently other than adding songs to the queue...it was just kind of awkward and didn't flow as easily as jriver did. I can certainly browse the folders using the sony remote and play them fine. I just think i will just use fb2000 and hdmi out for flac,wav, and mp3, and if i want dsd i will put them on a usb stick for now...i don't have that many dsd files anyway. Foobar flacs through Hdmi sounds pretty darn good to me regardless of what many say here, so i think i will go back to that. I may even go back to dragonfly, that sounded good too. My main ambition was just to have the nice easy fb interface on a large touch screen monitor next to the stereo.

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Not many people I know want more components, they want less. I know I sure want less components, less software and less fiddling.

 

Most "audiophiles" want discrete components. seperate amp, dac, preamp, etc...I normally would prefer less components so i only have one thing to turn on, and make things simpler, but I myself even went back to a separate amp as i can tell the difference. I even like my NAD amp better than the marantz reciever i just sold. Then again there are those that wouldn't even consider having anything but tube gear in their system also...