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"Super" fuses in Audio


pawel8

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Recently I have "upgraded" my DCS Debussy dac to 99$ Hi-Fi tuning silver-gold fuse.

The sound immediately became metallic and unlistenable.

I do not think it is my system.

Please note that even DCS Vivaldi uses regular fuses.

Any experience / input would be appreciated.

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Recently I have "upgraded" my DCS Debussy dac to 99$ Hi-Fi tuning silver-gold fuse.

The sound immediately became metallic and unlistenable.

I do not think it is my system.

Please note that even DCS Vivaldi uses regular fuses.

Any experience / input would be appreciated.

 

That sounds highly unusual, to say the least.

Was this fuse on the A.C. mains side, or the DC supply side ? It could be interesting, just for a quick experiment, to take a cheap fuse of the same physical side and solder a piece of normal copper wire across it to see what that does.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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The sound immediately became metallic and unlistenable.

 

Exactly. That's why you need to give it a couple days to burn in.

 

2-3 days from now you will be amazed.

 

I have HiF Tuning Supreme fuses in all my components. One of the biggest improvements for the dollar in audio. They made the biggest difference in my preamp. HUGE improvement. Amp came in second.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

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... Any experience / input would be appreciated.

 

I'm sure that DCS would have selected a "good sounding" fuse for the Debussy. If the difference is very obvious, just restore the original fuse and listen to the music. Hopefully you purchased the fuse on condition of "money back if not satisfied".

 

If you are interested in quantifying the difference, you will need to engage the assistance of a friend.

 

1. Leave the room (go to the bathroom and close the door?)

2. While you are gone, your friend will enter the room and change the fuse (or remove and replace the same fuse) according to the toss of a coin, and write down which fuse is in place.

3. Your friend will leave the room and go where you cannot see them.

4. Return to the room and listen to the system. Record which fuse you think it is.

5. Repeat from step 1 at least 20 times.

 

Note that it is important that there be no clues other than the sound as to which fuse is in place. For example, it is important that the assistant take the same amount of time for a swap versus a non-swap, hence the suggestion that the fuse always be removed and replaced even if it is not being swapped.

 

After 20 or more times, compare the lists. You will need to be right almost every time for there to be a likely difference in sound between the fuses. If you're only right about half the time, there is likely to be no audible difference.

 

 

Edit: As Kenny points out, you may wish to take a couple of days between swaps to allow "burn in". Whether you do or not, the important thing is to be consistent - each fuse must be treated alike. For example, if you allow the new fuse to burn in and notice that the sound improves, you can then swap back the old fuse and see if the sound degrades again until the fuse has once more burnt in. In which case, the problem is not with the fuse quality, but with lack of burn in.

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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After 20 or more times, compare the lists. You will need to be right almost every time for there to be a likely difference in sound between the fuses. If you're only right about half the time, there is likely to be no audible difference.

After more than about half a dozen changes they are both likely to end up sounding the same, even if there were obvious differences under relaxed listening conditions !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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After more than about half a dozen changes they are both likely to end up sounding the same, even if there were obvious differences under relaxed listening conditions !

 

Why do you think they would end up sounding the same? Might they both have "burnt in" to their role in the system? Or do you mean the stress of performing the test? Note that his original comparison was not done under "relaxed listening conditions" either. He was listening to hear a difference, just as he would when performing the test. But there's nothing to stop him from leaving each fuse in place long enough to become comfortable with the sound, as Kenny suggested.

 

Pawel: Don't let us dishearten you. Give the fuse a few days. If you decide you are happier with the sound than with the old fuse, that is all that matters for you. It worked for Kenny, who apparently has more disposable income and less skepticism than I do... :)

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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It worked for Kenny, who apparently has more disposable income and less skepticism than I do... :)

 

I was very skeptical going into it. I first tried a Furutech fuse in my preamp, which set me back only about $50. It made things worse at first. I would have yanked it, but I had read reports that it takes a while to burn in. I was glad I had patience. The benefit was on par with spending an extra $500-1000 on a better interconnect or power cord.

 

I moved onto Supreme fuses after that as they had the right sizes for all my components. The Supremes never sounded bad out of the box, but they improved after a few days,

 

Source components didn't benefit nearly as much as the preamp.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

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I'm sure that DCS would have selected a "good sounding" fuse for the Debussy.

 

No, most likely not.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

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If you are interested in quantifying the difference, you will need to engage the assistance of a friend.

 

No need for him to do that. He's already proven that he is adept at spotting differences. He heard exactly what many others have reported hearing after tossing in a brand new audiophile fuse.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels

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But there's nothing to stop him from leaving each fuse in place long enough to become comfortable with the sound, as Kenny suggested.

 

That would be a completely different scenario, but it doesn't fit in with normal non sighted listening requirements.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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... never mind.

 

:)

 

I'm not sure there's a good way to resolve something like this without 10 or 20 people to participate. I'm inclined to agree with Alex that one individual would go bonkers and not be able to usefully choose before reaching 20 trials. (I tried this with 5 test files and two known sources, and it quickly became more effortful than I'd imagined. Of course, there may well have been no difference. On the other hand, a friend and I reliably achieved identical but independent sighted listening impressions of similar test material on multiple occasions. Curious stuff.)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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To begin with, I am sorry about the snears from the peanut gallery. Some people just cannot help themselves. It would seem as if only one poster has even tried them.

 

I am agnostic on fuses, but I have been surprised by odder things than a simple fuse making a difference. I caution you to consider that the DAC's clock takes a very long time to stabilize. Depending upon how tightly they have the input filtering and such, it may take quite a while for the DAC to sound right. I know my DIY one won't even hold lock for 10 minutes. Seeing as it is most likely unreturnable, let it burn in for a few days and see.

Recently I have "upgraded" my DCS Debussy dac to 99$ Hi-Fi tuning silver-gold fuse.

The sound immediately became metallic and unlistenable.

I do not think it is my system.

Please note that even DCS Vivaldi uses regular fuses.

Any experience / input would be appreciated.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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The Magnepan MMG I owned had a set of fuses. They certainly were stock but seemed even flimsier. One did not seem properly seating. In trying to adjust it I broke it. A local shop carried the HiFi fuses so I picked up a set. Both the look and feel showed a better build. They fit properly and didn't have that flimsy feel when put into place. I don't know anything about sounding better but they "fit the part".

"If you fly a flag of hate you are no kin to me"

Ry Cooder

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