Group Buy for full ATX Linear PSU from Teradak

[_JL_]

Hi Ben-M,

 

I think we also need to specify the length of the ATX power wires needed inside the PC. I just received my FC10 and I found out the input DC cable of my nano-supply is 2 inches short to reach the back panel mounting position. In my case I'll need a min of 45cm cable length to wire from the back panel to the motherboard ATX power socket.

 

Thanks.

[_JL_]

So you've finally got 'er in hand, eh Jack? What do you think about it? I was quite impressed with mine :-D

 

And you've asked a very good question. I'll get back to you soon.

 

Yes Ben-M, the FC10's build quality is very good and would be at home with any hi-end setups. I was test fitting everything and then found out the short cable issue. The same will also apply to the power cables for HDDs, etc.

 

Interestingly I received the new FC10 Mk.II version which omitted the optical drive slot, changed to a vertical HDD mounting frame, and a new sub-panel for the DC power inlet. This inlet sub-panel is interesting as it is now a standard dimension for a 1U SMPS PS to be installed inside the chassis.

 

This new version is not even on streacom's website yet but there are some photos in taobao - search for "streacom FC10 PRO".

 

Now that the new FC10 inlet sub-panel is 1U standard size if Teradak can build the subpanel according to that dimension it will be perfect!

[_JL_]

Though you can do just what Hans posted about, I got the reply from Teradak and you're in luck.

 

The internal cable lengths are all 50cm.

 

a sidenote: I have watched a few videos about case modding, but I never searched for it specifically. I just searched "case modding" on YouTube like Hans said, and man, there really is a whole sub-culture for it. You guys should check it out, there are some tutorials on it and best practices, might help us out for the back-plate work :-D

 

Hi Ben-M,

 

That's perfect!

 

Btw, I just got a Teradak 12V/15A LPS to bridge me over until I get a true LPS for my FC10. The build quality is reasonable and the actual product looks exactly the same as the one listed in Taobao/hifiss. I quickly put together my FC10 built and it works fine using the Teradak.

 

The only thing is the Teradak is quite smelly, perhaps because it's newly manufactured. I'm now putting it in the open with the top cover removed in the hope that the odor will dissipate in a couple days.

 

As to performance the unit runs only slightly warm to the touch but then my PC is not high powered. The FC10 chassis barely get warm at all. I tried to measure the LPS's output with the PC connected and running. The residual noise fluctuates and peaks at about 100mV using my Fluke meter at AC range. I'm not sure if this is the best way to measure it as the connected nano DC-ATX could also feed noise back to the DC line.

 

Jack

[_JL_]

I just got this link from Teradak because I was asking them about the specific back-plate dimensions about ATX, mATX, and SFX.

 

These are what they can get from their supplier with professional CNC cutting and mounting holes drilled.

SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd.

 

Just to give you guys a better idea :-)

 

Hi Ben-M,

 

I think the Flex ATX form factor is the one used in the new FC10 chassis. If Teradak can do that it will be a perfect fit.

 

Jack

[_JL_]

I also saw a picture of a FC10 Pro with mini-ATX style backplate (I don't know what the official term is), which would work for me. I can't find any other reference to it though. Does anyone know if it actually exists and can be purchased?

 

Hi,

 

I have the FC10 Pro chassis with the new backplate so it is available. You may want to check with your streacom dealer on that.

 

Ben-M mentioned in an earlier post that Teradak can make a backplate that fits the new FC10 Pro backplate so it should be a perfect fit. I'm counting on that myself.

 

Jack

[_JL_]

Quietpc.com just spoke to Streacom again and apparently the FC 10 Pro was a Chinese market only version that won't be released internationally - and it would have solved most of my issues with their standard cases...

 

Of course what I'd really like to see is an FC 10 with three upright (no riser cables) low profile sockets (like the FC9), plus a full size ATX input suitable for passive ATX supplies from the likes of Seasonic. Now that would be perfect, but I'm drifting off-topic so I'll stop there!

 

I got it in Hong Kong. Taobao also has it but the price is slightly higher than in the US/UK.

 

Strange that the FC10 Pro is limited to the Chinese market. I originally just ordered the non-Pro FC10 and the local dealer get me the FC10 Pro instead, saying it's replaced the FC10.

[_JL_]

I just received a shipping notification from PayPal. It's expected to deliver tomorrow evening.

[_JL_]

I just received a shipping notification from PayPal. It's expected to deliver tomorrow evening.

 

It arrives in sturdy double box. I just unpacked it.

 

Hi Ben-M: I think they sent me the wrong back-plate. I need the small ATX one but they sent me one with dimension 12.5x6.3cm which is too large for my FC10-Pro.

 

I also couldn't find the extra 5V cable. Could you check with them? Many thanks!

 

I'll post some pics in a moment.

[_JL_]

Some pics for the newly received ATX-350.

[_JL_]

Hi Ben-M,

 

> I've emailed them about the backplate, so I'll wait for their reply.

 

Thanks a lot for the quick follow-up.

 

> And I can see from your pictures that the 2x SATA + 1x Molex is there; it's the silver wired one that doesn't have any sleeving. As for the +5VSB umbilical that you'd need to connect that to, I don't see that one anywhere. I'll contact them and let them know.

 

Yes, I was referring to the +5VSB umbilical. Not sure how to call it.

 

> As for your actual unit, damn! It looks nice. The power switch on the front doesn't look bad at all and the new black, flat-top screws looks better than the silver dome-top ones from before.

 

Agree. The sand-blasted chassis is much nicer to look at and touch than the standard chassis. I'm more than happy with the chassis. And the thing is heavy - like a power amp.

> What about the cables, are you going to unwrap them? Besides your issue with the back-plate and missing umbilical, when do you think you'd be able to hook this up for a trial run? I'm really looking forward to getting mine :-D

 

I probably need a few days to rearrange the rack before I can test drive it. I'm sure yours will arrive very soon.

 

Thanks again for making this happen!

[_JL_]

Hi All,

 

Let me try to provide some information on the 'problem' and the 'fix'. In case you wonder I'm the guy raising the issue with Teradak after I received my unit.

 

First of all, the original unit works. After receiving it I setup it up and my PC boot without any issue. I ran it for a while and then I noticed that the 5V and 3.3V fluctuates a bit using the h/w monitor provided by my ASRock motherboard. I then proceeded to measure the ripple using my DMM and found that the 12V rail is fine but the 5V rail has ripple at ~100mV which IMO is higher than desirable. I didn't measure the 3.3V rail as I cannot find an easy measuring point with the PC running.

 

Teradak's engineer could not reproduce my observation but nonetheless they investigated further and did confirm that the 5V/3.3V ripples are higher than expected. After some more investigation Teradak developed a modification aimed to improve voltage stability and reduce ripple.

 

The modification involves replacing the voltage reference semiconductor (for each voltage rail) with a green LED (which has constant voltage drop so can serve as voltage reference). Teradak sent me the parts and I did the modification to my PSU. I measured the PSU's performance before and after the modification using a scope with the following results:

 

[12V Rail]

- Original ripple RMS: ~40mV

- LED-mod ripple RMS: ~40mV

 

 

[5V Rail]

- Original ripple RMS: ~110mV

- LED-mod ripple RMS: ~25mV

 

 

So it is clear that the 5V ripple performance improved significantly. Again I didn't measure the 3.3V rail but I believe it will have similar improvements. The voltage stability of all three rails are now very stable as well. I believe Teradak applied the mod to all unshipped units. If your unit has green glow inside the chassis then it has the LED mod.

 

Have fun with your new ATX-PSU.

[_JL_]

> Was it to replace the voltage references?

 

Yes.

> Can you please post details?

 

I am not sure if you have contacted Teradak but I think it's better for you to ask them to send you the parts and the detailed instructions of the mod. The mod is not difficult if you're handy with a soldering iron.

 

 

[_JL_]

I think I need to clarify the ripple measurements. Manufacturer's measurements are almost always done with a resistive load.

 

My measurements in contrast are done at the motherboard end with the ASRock motherboard running. Thus noises generated by the motherboard as well as fluctuating current draws by the motherboard/HDD/etc., all adds to the measured noise. So to be fair the noise figures I measured are a sum of the PSU noise plus noises generated by the motherboard.

 

To get a fair comparison one will need to setup suitable resistors as the load at the given current to do the measurements. On an absolute term the ripple performance is respectable IMO. Getting down to a few mV with a running motherboard is next to impossible IMO.

[_JL_]

Hi All,

 

I just received another update from Teradak. They further refined the modification with an additional capacitor added to each voltage rail. According to Teradak the ripple performance is now at several mV level when connected to an AMD motherboard drawing >2A per rail:

 

3.3V=1.296mV(RMS)

5V=2.350mV(RMS)

12V=2.998mV(RMS)

 

These photos are from Teradak.

 

 

Teradak also informed me that only the first 4 units (1 for fmak, 2 for Ben, and mine) were shipped with the non-mod circuit. All the others have been updated with both the LED mode and the capacitor mod.

[_JL_]

Thanks guys for the kind words. Ben is THE one pulling this off and doing all the coordination with Teradak in the background.

 

I am happy that Teradak follow-through and improved the PSU further. Can't wait to add the cap mod to my unit.

[_JL_]

> Do you know, by any chances, if they shipped all of them already or is it still work in progress?

 

Sorry I have no idea but it seems they started sending out tracking numbers.

[_JL_]

> JL, you have a chance of trying out before and after putting mod capacitor in your PSU. Does it make a better sound or does it make a cleaner but dull sound?

 

I'm still waiting for the capacitor parts ...

[_JL_]

> DO you know if the 5VSB line has the same mod & the same level of performance as the other rails? SInce the 5VSB rail is 2.2 amps max, I reckon that their measurements with a 2amp avarage load might not apply to that 5VSB rail?

 

Is the 5VSB the extra output with a separate cable? I didn't test that as I have no use for it yet. From what I gathered the output is implemented differently - I may be wrong but I think it is implemented using standard IC regulator instead of power transistors, possibly because of the lower current demand. This way it doesn't need a voltage reference so the LED mod doesn't apply.

[_JL_]

Hi Mark,

 

> One fairly minor issue with my 275W LPS. The bolt coming through the bottom of the case that holds down the toroidal transformer was loose when it arrived. I did it up a turn or 2 by hand but would like to nip it up with a socket. I does not need to be too tight but better than finger tight would be good. However before I do this I would like to take the top cover off, make sure the transformer has not turned and hold it by hand to ensure it does not rotate whilst I nip up the bolt. All easy to do but there is a sticker over one of the cover screws advising that the warranty is void if removed.

 

I attached a photo of the inside of my unit showing the nut on the toroid. If yours are the same then it looks like you can tighten the bolt w/o holding the nut at the same time.

 

[_JL_]

Do I see 4 (!) LEDs? Are these part of the ' mod' ?

In that case, what rail is using the 4th LED? I assume the 12v, 5v and 3.3v are coming from the reg-boards on the side...

 

There are 3 green LEDs. Could be the reflection from the LED?

[_JL_]

I haven't hooked up my ATX 210 to my CAPS yet (...want to make sure I'm connecting it correctly). However, I did turn on the ATX to make sure it turned on ok. However, when turned on I didn't see any green LED glow.

 

This is normal. Unlike a simple LPS this ATX supply conforms to the ATX handsake standard with the PC motherboard so you need to press the power button for the motherboard to really switch it on. Similarly if you shutdown your OS the ATX supply will shutdown as well, save for the 5VSB rail.

[_JL_]

I had a chance to compare the Teradak against 19V LPS + HDPlex 250W DC-ATX setups recently. The rest of the system is held constant and the DAC was isolated by an iFi iUSB 3.0 followed by a cascade of two REGENS.

 

In short, the full LPS solution (i.e., Teradak) is clearly better. The whole spectrum sounds cleaner, especially from mid-range to bass. The high freq is more extended and generally sounds sweeter.

 

I saw HDPLEX is going to release their own ATX-LPS soon which looks very promising as well. Good times for CAS enthusiasts.

[_JL_]

Diagnose from service center i brought was, this little white thing like dynamo (or whatever it is) on the left was faulty.

 

That dynamo thingy is an R-core transformer. In my unit it is a dual 9V 1.66A output one so finding a replacement should not be too hard. If it is just the transformer failing then it should be a simple fix.

 

Have you tried contacting Teradak to see if they can supply a replacement part?

[_JL_]

 

They explained on the phone that from R-Core transformer, it goes to separate electronic boards that consist with bunch of capacitors. Each board for a specific voltage. So two boards got problems are the 3V and 5V...... since they were electrocuted, the safety failure kicks in and causing the continuous mechanical sounds. Thus it can not turn on the PC.

 

My wild guess at the moment is not the capacitors, probably something smaller, diodes or... i don't know. Right now i am concern with what kind of spare part they changed? If they change it with a crappy one, the sound quality would be effected

 

 

It's good to have it fixed.

 

If the R-core transformer have a primary-secondary short, for example, the high voltage will probably take out the regulator chip. Luckily it has this protection circuit which disconnects the AC input when any of the output voltages is above given limits. Otherwise it could fry the PC which will be expensive.

 

Unless your shop used absolutely junk parts I wouldn't worry too much about the replaced parts as the original ones are just standard quality parts.

 

I turn on/off my unit per listening session and so far no issues (touch wood).

[_JL_]

Hi JL,

 

 

This what i get from the service center. Apparently a small capacitor got busted. It is use for voltage regulator if i am not mistaken. I didn't get much explanation because apparently they got angry when i ask why they charged me so much for a small fix. The job is done but it is also a ripped off. I haven't try it yet to see if the sound change after it was fixed.

 

It is still a mystery why it got busted. Is it a wrong usage? Bad voltage in my house? Is it supposed to be 20uf or 2 x 10uf rather than a single 10uf?

 

 

Hi Marcell,

 

Sorry I didn't saw your post until now. Anyway, as sandyk mentioned cap rarely fail unless it is over-voltage. I don't know what the voltage rating is for that cap but unless it is too close to the actual voltage being use, variations in the household voltage normally won't cause it to fail.

 

Since your unit is now fixed I say just forget it and enjoy!