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How do you store DFF ( untagged ) files?


rodrigaj

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DSD comes in dff and dsf formats. Like wav, dff does not support metadata.

 

 

Therefore, as I download the great tape transfers from
High Definition Tape Transfers
, I end up with one massive folder of individual tracks that is totally untagged, no composer, no cover art, no artist, etc… impossible to deal with using my Synology NAS (Minim Server) > Rendu renderer > W4S DAC > Android controller running Bubble Upnp.

 

 

I tried transcoding to DSF using JRiver but I got ticks and a compromised sound stage. They do offer other formats, but DSD is the best IMHO. If I have a choice I buy DSD.

 

 

Any suggestions? How do you deal with untagged files? If you have a system I would like to hear about it. I am new to all of this, so if this is a glaringly easy problem be kind.

 

 

Of course, the real issue is why High Def Tape Transfers doesn’t offer DSF and I can’t answer that.

 

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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J.River library does support tagging in its database even know that the files themselves does not support tagging. That is true as long the DFF file stays within J.River.

 

Do you want to try that again in English? :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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john57-

Thanks, but I am not using Jriver in front of my music system, I am using BubbleUpnp. I would have to buy an iPad and use Jriver's controller for your solution to work or run into the computer room whenever I wanted to change playlist. Perhaps I'm missing something in your suggestion.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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DFF does not support ID3V2 tagging. DSF does. I've stated this in many threads here. Do DSF. Or find a player like JRiver that will allow you to edit DFF metadata and put unsupported tags in its library file, but those tags won't travel to other players.

 

Your issue with DSF's soundstage and JRiver conversion is NOT a DSF issue. When using a format conversion from one DSD format to another in JRiver it first converts it to PCM. Hence the file type conversion is not clean. They even recommend against it. If you wanna change DSD file types use Audiogate.

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ted_b -

 

Thank you for your reply....perhaps I should clarify...

 

I would use DSF if I could, but HDTT downloads DSD files as DFF.

 

Audiogate is not an option because their free version (Audiogate Lite) doesn't support high def files, just redbook equivalents. They don't sell the full blown Audiogate, without the purchase of their $800 DAC audio player. Unless I'm not understanding something about Korg's "READ FIRST" Download | AudioGate3 HIGH DEFINITION AUDIO PLAYER SOFTWARE | Audio | KORG

 

I found out about the JRiver conversion to PCM after I tried it and agree it is not an option. DSD converted to PCM and back to DSD is not DSD and audibly inferior to the original.

 

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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Yes, sorry, if you were not currently a Twitter-authorized V2.3 user you can't register that way anymore (and those who are, please don't "upgrade")..

 

We need to find a good DFF to DSF conversion utility. Anybody? I tried the HFX light converter but got nowhere; it kept telling me the folders I was accessing were write-protected, which they absolutely weren't.

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As long as there isn't a easy to use utility (for WIN and MAC users ...), I stay on DFF files, as Foobar can tag them.

 

I haven't tried these, mentioned there:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/dff-dsf-conversion-21715/

 

 

so, maybe?

Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000  / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II

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Bob at HDTT just got back to me:

 

There is a dff/dsf converterHFX Store - DFF to DSF Converter - Light

Yate can tag them after that but I believe this is only for Mac but you can check it out anyway;

Mac OS X Audio Tagger | Yate | 2ManyRobots

This is confirmed by Synfreak's link as well. Seems to be the solution if Mac is an option. I have an iMac running Parallels so this should work out fine.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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Bob at HDTT just got back to me:

 

There is a dff/dsf converterHFX Store - DFF to DSF Converter - Light

Yate can tag them after that but I believe this is only for Mac but you can check it out anyway;

Mac OS X Audio Tagger | Yate | 2ManyRobots

This is confirmed by Synfreak's link as well. Seems to be the solution if Mac is an option. I have an iMac running Parallels so this should work out fine.

 

Um, yes, I posted earlier today, for you, my impressions of that HFX Light and said

I tried the HFX light converter but got nowhere; it kept telling me the folders I was accessing were write-protected, which they absolutely weren't.

 

Hope you have better luck. I will try the Audiventory one soon here.

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http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/dff-dsf-conversion-21715/#post352188

 

Not going well. Looks like a damn PCM conversion first. We'll see when developer responds.

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Um, yes, I posted earlier today, for you, my impressions of that HFX Light and said

 

 

Hope you have better luck. I will try the Audiventory one soon here.

 

Sorry, I did not make the connection between 2ManyRobots and HFX light. I just tried it on the Walton / Previn HDTT download and it converted without a hitch.

 

I am using "dff2dsf version 1.2.1 build 28" , running MacOS Maverick. I have just listened and I could discern no difference between the original DFF and the transcoded DSF.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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There is an Android app for control too, and they are working on porting JRemote over to Android.

 

I tried the Android app Gizmo thinking it would be a JRemote equivalent, and it was awful. I can't remember exactly why I did not like it but I remember deleting it the same night I tried it and going back to BubbleUpnp. Judging from comments on the iOS boards, JRemote is awesome. Glad to hear that it will be coming over to the android devices.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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Sorry, I did not make the connection between 2ManyRobots and HFX light. I just tried it on the Walton / Previn HDTT download and it converted without a hitch.

 

I am using "dff2dsf version 1.2.1 build 28" , running MacOS Maverick. I have just listened and I could discern no difference between the original DFF and the transcoded DSF.

 

Nice. Mac users have a solution then! The Windows ones (HFX Lite and Audinventory) are troubling so far.

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Nice. Mac users have a solution then! The Windows ones (HFX Lite and Audinventory) are troubling so far.

 

This is another topic altogether, but for many years I struggled with the Mac / Windows conundrum.

 

Two years ago, I bit the bullet and bought an iMac and immediately installed Parallels / Windows 7. At the time I did it only to run Intuit Quicken, but now realize that it turned out to be the smartest computer decision I have ever made.

 

You get the best of both worlds, even when a developer offers versions of their software on both platforms. For example, JRiver on the Mac was buggy and slow. Jriver on Windows is fast with no problems. I have favorite Windows programs running side by side with favorite MacOS programs.

 

My entry into digital audio has confirmed the wisdom of that initial expenditure.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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I am using Windows 8.1 and I tried what I could to make things clear.

 

AuI Converter does the DFF to DSF conversion really via dff2wav, so it goes through PCM and therefore it is not what we are searching for.

 

I tried the HFX Converter Light. Input were DFF files extracted from SACD ISO with sacd_extract.

 

The result was dialog box containing:

 

---------------------------

"H:\DSDIFF\RAINBOW - RISING\02 - RAINBOW - RUN WITH THE WOLF.dff" is not standard DFF,

 

it cannot be converted!

 

Maybe you have changed the DFF File with Jriver!

 

Check: W1A1CA

---------------------------

 

The DFF files were never used in JRiver.

 

Then I tried a DFF file, downloaded from the 2L website High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services .:. FLAC in free TEST BENCH. The HFX Converter converted the file by creating a new one with DSF extension and similar size. So it seems HFX Converter is unable to convert DFF files, created with sacd_extract tool. I tried it with more SACD ISO files with the same result.

 

The conversion of 2L file took some time in the HFX Converter. I was not able to tell, if the DSD content was really only repackaged without modifying the content, because I don't know the difference between the DFF and DSF formats. It seems a binary representation of DSD content is not the same in DFF and DSF files, because the binary comparison tool ECMerge I used showed only very small sequences of matches. The DFF and DSF files seemed to be rather totally different (although similar in size).

 

Then I tried Korg Audiogate (an old version) and it converted the same 2L file much much faster. Further I tried the DFF file, created by sacd_extract, which HFX converter previously refused to convert. Audiogate did it quickly without any troubles.

 

The last thing I did was binary comparison of conversion results, taken form these two tools. It showed me only small differences at the beginning and the end of the files, otherwise the content of these two DSF files is identical. So I have a result: If Audiogate makes the DFF to DSF conversion without modifying the DSD content (only repackaging), then HFX converter does it too (only slower). There are some small differences in the header and footer of the DSF files, but not in the body. Sorrowly the HFX converter refused to convert DFF files, generated by sacd_extract.

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We need to find a good DFF to DSF conversion utility. Anybody? I tried the HFX light converter but got nowhere; it kept telling me the folders I was accessing were write-protected, which they absolutely weren't.

 

I have such as a command line utility (currently only Linux, but OS X would be easy). Although now it does upsampling at the same time. But I could make a bit-perfect version of it. Stereo is easy, keeping multi-channel channel mappings correct could require some additional work.

 

If you can convince me I could make such bit-perfect conversion utility. :)

 

 

P.S. HQPlayer supports ID3v2 tags also in DFF files (and WAV), but it's not standard so I don't know if any tool writes such. (I think someone reported JRiver's tagging of either format to work, but can't remember anymore which one)

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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The last thing I did was binary comparison of conversion results, taken form these two tools. It showed me only small differences at the beginning and the end of the files, otherwise the content of these two DSF files is identical. So I have a result: If Audiogate makes the DFF to DSF conversion without modifying the DSD content (only repackaging), then HFX converter does it too (only slower). There are some small differences in the header and footer of the DSF files, but not in the body. Sorrowly the HFX converter refused to convert DFF files, generated by sacd_extract.

 

How did you do the comparison? The two formats have vastly different data layout, so there shouldn't be any part in the raw file where there is significant match.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Jussi, thanks, another good OSX (assuming that DFF2DSF is good, which it sounds like) conversion solution would be great. And yes, mostly for 2 channel should be fine.

 

My DFF that HFX Lite wouldn't convert is not SACD_extract based at all (unless the label that sent it to me used my Mr Wicked tools). I gave up on it and the PCM-based Audinventory (be up front about it or don't offer it!).

 

Bogi, thanks for the summary; I too am interested in how you did that data comparison.

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How did you do the comparison?

 

Miska, I wrote: "The last thing I did was binary comparison of conversion results, taken form these two tools."

I did comparison of two DSF files, not DFF and DSF.

The compared DSF files were created from the same DFF file, but the 1st using HFX Converter and the 2nd using Audiogate. There were few small differences only in header and footer, otherwise the 400 MB files have exactly the same body. That confirmed that not only Audiogate, but also HFX doesn't go through PCM and makes direct DFF to DSF conversion (something like repackaging).

 

The two formats have vastly different data layout, so there shouldn't be any part in the raw file where there is significant match.

 

Thanks for this explanation! It confirms my observation, when I compared DFF and DSF pair. I wrote previously: "It seems a binary representation of DSD content is not the same in DFF and DSF files, because the binary comparison tool ECMerge I used showed only very small sequences of matches. The DFF and DSF files seemed to be rather totally different (although similar in size)."

 

Miska, could you please create that cmd line tool also for Windows environment? It could be integrated into Explorer context menu, so it's usage could be convenient for all.

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I tried the Android app Gizmo thinking it would be a JRemote equivalent, and it was awful. I can't remember exactly why I did not like it but I remember deleting it the same night I tried it and going back to BubbleUpnp. Judging from comments on the iOS boards, JRemote is awesome. Glad to hear that it will be coming over to the android devices.

 

The 80% justification to buy an iPad was for Jremote. Gizmo is lacking no end and I sympathise with your actions, more or less did the same. When JRemote is delivered for Android, the iPad will be going. It is also possible to use Android tablets which have an IR function built in to use as a universal remote control which the iPad doesn't natively support, an addition to Apple's "we don't have what the customer wants".

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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The compared DSF files were created from the same DFF file, but the 1st using HFX Converter and the 2nd using Audiogate.

 

OK, this is what I wanted to confirm. :)

 

Miska, could you please create that cmd line tool also for Windows environment? It could be integrated into Explorer context menu, so it's usage could be convenient for all.

 

Code itself is cross-platform and works on Windows too. Only real difference are the build files used to produce the binaries. OS X being unix-style system like Linux makes it easy to same thing for both. Windows always needs different treatment... But it's not anything major.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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