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There is a confirming report of the results of a series of 6 separate Blind A/B/A 3 minute .wav file comparisons, where the .wav files had identical check sums, published in Hi Fi Critic Vol. 6 No. 1 There have also been links to various HFC Forum threads posted in C.A. numerous times previously . I supplied those and other comparison .wav files to Martin Colloms of HFC via uploads.

 

I suppose you have a defective checksum ? Either the files are bitwise identical or not. If the files are actually the same and if you have a reasonable testing protocol, they should sound the same.

 

It is infinitely more likely you have some systemic error in your testing setup. How about this: devise a measurement that can measure the difference between the bitwise identical files.

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I suppose you have a defective checksum ? Either the files are bitwise identical or not. If the files are actually the same and if you have a reasonable testing protocol, they should sound the same.

 

It is infinitely more likely you have some systemic error in your testing setup. How about this: devise a measurement that can measure the difference between the bitwise identical files.

 

It is infinitely more likely that you have been smoking the hash you mentioned, if you believe that a highly respected EE and Technical writer of many years standing such as Martin Colloms is incapable of verifying the binary contents of the files supplied, and performing Blind A/B tests.

Attached is a link to a very early thread on the subject here. You will find Claude and John Kenny even detailing the differences that they heard.Chris C. never did listen to the files concerned after verifying their checksums.

Note also the reports by Claudius and John Kenny on p.9.

This was well before I contacted Martin Colloms, who confirmed my reports.

I will not be continuing this discussion further with you, as it has been done to death many times already.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/file-format-2861/

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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It is infinitely more likely that you have been smoking the hash you mentioned, if you believe that a highly respected EE and Technical writer of many years standing such as Martin Colloms is incapable of verifying the binary contents of the files supplied, and performing Blind A/B tests.

Attached is a link to a very early thread on the subject here. You will find Claude and John Kenny even detailing the differences that they heard.Chris C. never did listen to the files concerned after verifying their checksums.

Note also the reports by Claudius and John Kenny on p.9.

This was well before I contacted Martin Colloms, who confirmed my reports.

I will not be continuing this discussion further with you, as it has been done to death many times already.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/file-format-2861/

 

I understand you have religion. I hope, for your sake, that your business is *selling* $1000 ethernet cables, rather than *buying* them.

 

I'd let Martin Collums speak for himself, but I would define someone espousing the view that a file depends on where it came from rather than what bits it contains, as a fiction rather than technical writer given my own definition of fiction and technical. Of course fiction can be much more entertaining than logic ... on the other hand there is always quantum entanglement and perhaps this universe is much more entangled than we suspect.

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I understand you have religion. I hope, for your sake, that your business is *selling* $1000 ethernet cables, rather than *buying* them.

I have NO commercial interests. IF you are genuinely interested I can PM you some links to the various HFC threads etc.

I will not be further discussing this on line as a few less tolerant members of the "bits are bits" brigade get pissed off.

If you compare threads from 5 years back with those today, you will find a marked change in overall attitude, where even things such as differences between USB cables are rarely disputed these days. Nobody used external Linear PSUs or isolators for USB Audio back then either.Digital Audio isn't as cut and dried as many would wish to believe. Many people now accept, even Chris C, that an SSD may sound a little different to a HDD, despite both exporting the same Binary data. Check out some of the threads from Alex C with long names, for example. RF/EMI goes along for the ride with the Binary Data and does affect DACs etc.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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I have NO commercial interests. IF you are genuinely interested I can PM you some links to the various HFC threads etc.

I will not be further discussing this on line as a few less tolerant members of the "bits are bits" brigade get pissed off.

If you compare threads from 5 years back with those today, you will find a marked change in overall attitude, where even things such as differences between USB cables are rarely disputed these days. Nobody used external Linear PSUs or isolators for USB Audio back then either.Digital Audio isn't as cut and dried as many would wish to believe. Many people now accept, even Chris C, that an SSD may sound a little different to a HDD, despite both exporting the same Binary data. Check out some of the threads from Alex C with long names, for example. RF/EMI goes along for the ride with the Binary Data and does affect DACs etc.

 

I've read some of the threads. I hear a bunch of people arguing at cross purposes.

 

Ok. I'm somewhat of a skeptic about differences between reasonably good USB cables but I can see, from a technical POV, how they might influence the DAC. Assuming the different USB cables were actually on spec (and its impossible to tell without testing them whether that's the case) then I would consider such differences to be the "fault" of the DAC, in the same way that a good async USB interface negates much of the jitter issues. However I'll grant that USB cables *might* sound different.

 

Unquestionably a good PSU can heavily influence an analog output circuit. Likewise digital noise can infect an improperly shielded/isolated analog circuit.

 

If you hear a difference between your SSD and HD, your software is not optimal. Software such as Audirvana negates this with buffering. No question this sounds "better" than native iTunes.

 

RF/EMI needs to be properly dealt with. I've suggested that fiberoptic cable might be more effective on an absolute level than any special copper Ethernet cable at rejecting RF/EMI.

 

On the other hand, the mere fact that you'd actually Email two binary files to determine whether one or the other had ever been compressed demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about how the SMTP protocol works -- have you ever considered looking at the raw SMTP message including attachments? The attached files are themselves encoded and decoded into text compatible formats for transmission. Not only that but servers and OS freely compress and decompress files. These threads are amusing not because you couldn't be right, but because you haven't taken the time to think about how the system actually works and so the test you propose/use becomes irrelevant. All the specs/protocols are freely available to the public.

 

I'm willing to learn, but you are going to need to make a better argument.

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I'm willing to learn, but you are going to need to make a better argument.

 

The simple fact remains that a series of 6 Blind A/B/A/ 3 minute comparisons spread over a period of several months confirmed the results. There was also a series of articles published in T.A.S. 220 and 221 that said quite similar, although I disagree with the files continuing to further deteriorate. It depends on the quality of the PSU used.

Ken was the main person in HFC that disagreed, but then he disagrees with almost all subjective reports by the Admin team of HFC Forum and it's magazine.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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The simple fact remains that a series of 6 Blind A/B/A/ 3 minute comparisons spread over a period of several months confirmed the results. There was also a series of articles published in T.A.S. 220 and 221 that said quite similar, although I disagree with the files continuing to further deteriorate. It depends on the quality of the PSU used.

Ken was the main person in HFC that disagreed, but then he disagrees with almost all subjective reports by the Admin team of HFC Forum and it's magazine.

 

What result did it confirm?

 

All the files have been compressed and decompressed perhaps many many times.

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It confirmed that despite what the checksums reported that there were still audible differences between .wav files saved at the U.K. end to the same USB memory stick, and played via a Naim Unitserve in the U.K. despite being transmitted via the Internet. My preferred delivery of comparison files is however via physical media.

.

Obviously, you refuse to accept the results. It's your loss, not mine, if you refuse to accept that digitised audio is far from perfect as previously believed, and that it is still affected by PSU , RF/EMI, earthing issues etc. just as analogue is, although possibly not to the same extent.

As far as I am concerned, this present discussion is now closed. Bye !

 

"An admirable and well respected site devoted to computer audio is simply in denial over the Kethel research."

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Rather than contribute in the diatribe of this thread which usually falls into a heap when the subject of ripping is brought up, how about responding to the OP's direct question in a positive manner instead of bitchin' about some effn checksums, again!

 

Based on Skeptic's advice, there's a Pioneer BD in the shopping basket at Amazon. Now there are several drives offered. Don't need a burner facility, just the player, but it looks like at Amazon, they all can burn.

 

There's the regular type for desktop computers or the slimline external USB3 model BDR-XU03 which case is made from magnesium. The external drive is 1/3 the weight of the desktop model and considering having some drama with USB3 would like to keep away from this interface. The PSU would introduce noise into the USB, at least the desktop model keeps the same PSU as the rest of the computer, so it should cope quite well with rubbish.

 

Any comments invited.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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Rather than contribute in the diatribe of this thread which usually falls into a heap when the subject of ripping is brought up, how about responding to the OP's direct question in a positive manner instead of bitchin' about some effn checksums, again!

I presume this was directed at me ?

From Post 4.

I have been using the original LG GGW H20L BR drive for quite a few years now, and it continues to perform as new.

I also have a later model LG BR drive, but it doesn't appear to be up to quite the same standard with difficult to read discs.

Perhaps the factory Bean Counters have a part to play here ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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...Now there are several drives offered. Don't need a burner facility, just the player, but it looks like at Amazon, they all can burn.

 

There's the regular type for desktop computers or the slimline external USB3 model BDR-XU03 which case is made from magnesium. The external drive is 1/3 the weight of the desktop model and considering having some drama with USB3 would like to keep away from this interface. The PSU would introduce noise into the USB, at least the desktop model keeps the same PSU as the rest of the computer, so it should cope quite well with rubbish.

 

Any comments invited.

 

I've never used a USB3 blu-ray, and since you aren't burning it might not be an issue but I've never had good luck with USB attached drives. The most problems I've had are with burning which can be timing sensitive.

 

Of course my hardware is now several years old and newer USB3 models might be just fine.

 

Pioneer has always generally had excellent blu-ray drives. When working with blu-ray more RAM often solves any stuttering problems.

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jabbr

Did you read that FYI ONLY PM that I sent you ? A simple Y/N will suffice.

Thanks

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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jabbr

Did you read that FYI ONLY PM that I sent you ? A simple Y/N will suffice.

Thanks

Alex

 

Alex, just did read.

 

Do you remember the days before computer audio when people went to extraordinary lengths to improve upon CDs -- cryo, green magic markers etc. Turns out that even the fancy CD players weren't reading the CDs with error correction. Merely copying the CD onto HD using error correction solved 99% of the problem (i.e. green magic markers aren't necessary)

 

My point is that one needs to carefully look at systemic issues that may subtly sway results before using extraordinary explanations for observable phenomena ... and I include a file somehow retaining "memory" of where its bits have been to be in the category of an "extraordinary explanation" ... you'd actually need to invoke something like quantum entanglement to explain this.

 

You are saying "I hear this" and I am thinking "How can that be?" ... I am not questioning what you hear. I *am* questioning your explanation for why you hear what you hear. That's all.

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Do you remember the days before computer audio when people went to extraordinary lengths to improve upon CDs -- cryo, green magic markers etc. Turns out that even the fancy CD players weren't reading the CDs with error correction. Merely copying the CD onto HD using error correction solved 99% of the problem (i.e. green magic markers aren't necessary)

Yes, I have been there, done that. What I have found interesting though is that music compilation CDs specially made years ago for a degree of standardisation at listening sessions at varying locations on an old Windows XP PC using an earlier version of EAC sound quite lacking compared with the same tracks from the same CDs re-ripped years later using a later version of EAC and a more recent PC with W7 or W8.1.

I can't explain why the differences, other than note that the less mechanical vibration when ripping, and the better the PSU area, the better the end result. I will forward you another PM with a more recent report.

 

Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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