EU Regulations

[Music Matters]

According to the new regulations in European Union, from today you cannot buy vacuum cleaners more powerful than 1.600 W!!

And somewhere I read that in the future they will expand the list of appliances, amplifiers are also listed! WTF!!

 

Imagine in five years time, you are prohibited to buy amplifier with more than 75 W per channel.

[CatManDo]

Why speculate about restrictions on 75W amps when the vacuum cleaner restriction is about 1600W? The objective is to limit the most important waste of electricity.

 

The audio industry has already been affected by EU regulations like RoHs as well as restrictions on standby consumption, but it did not prevent anybody from making good sounding high end electronics. Companies just had to adapt.

 

A home vacuum cleaner which requires more than 1600W to be effective is poorly designed.

[Musicophile]

Why speculate about restrictions on 75W amps when the vacuum cleaner restriction is about 1600W? The objective is to limit the most important waste of electricity.

 

The audio industry has already been affected by EU regulations like RoHs as well as restrictions on standby consumption, but it did not prevent anybody from making good sounding high end electronics. Companies just had to adapt.

 

A home vacuum cleaner which requires more than 1600W to be effective is poorly designed.

While I agree with your assessment on vacuum cleaners beyond 1600 watts, the EU hasn't always been that reasonable. Prohibiting regular light bulbs just to replace them with toxic-mercury filled energy saving lamps wasn't a really smart move. And note that from 2017 the limit on vacuum cleaner energy consumption goes down to 900 watts, of which some critics (no idea if they are right, not being a vacuum cleaner expert) that if you lower the wattage that much, you'll just have to compensate by hoovering longer to get the same cleaning effect, leading to a net increase in absolute energy consumption. To be continued...

 

In any case, I'm very happy I got my good old fashioned Class AB Exposure with up to 200W per channel before the EU makes class D mandatory (just kidding here).

[mav52]

According to the new regulations in European Union, from today you cannot buy vacuum cleaners more powerful than 1.600 W!!

And somewhere I read that in the future they will expand the list of appliances, amplifiers are also listed! WTF!!

 

Imagine in five years time, you are prohibited to buy amplifier with more than 75 W per channel.

 

That is interesting

 

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/rebuttal/consumer-will-get-better-vacuum-cleaners-ever

[Music Matters]

I was also kidding with the 75 W, I know that vacuum cleaners haven't changed that much, and that should be more efficient. Dyson is making some progress in that field.

 

In this hobby I would not like to see disappear A class or similar. BTW Don't have nothing against limiting vacuum cleaners.

[PeterSt]

Why speculate about restrictions on 75W amps when the vacuum cleaner restriction is about 1600W? The objective is to limit the most important waste of electricity.

 

Well, how often do you hoover the house ? OK, not I guess. But your wife ?

Your 75W amplifier is on for ? 24/7 ? Ah, that seems to be 1800W per day. Per channel of course.

 

Now all we *really* need to be careful for is that your wife is going to tell you that you can't consume more than she does, unless you do the vacuum cleaning yourself.

 

Nah, the EU is not the biggest threat. Wives are.

[CatManDo]

One problem that the hifi industry sometimes has with EU rules (like RoHs mentionned above), is that the rules are generally made with the big electronics manufacturers in mind, while there are a lot of very small companies in the high end audio industry.

 

The investments required to comply with new manufacturing regulations can be too high compared to their profits, so that the companies rather abandon a product than redesign it according to the new rules.

 

And then the small manufacturers have no lobby. They are confronted with the rules when they become effective, while big companies are involved in the preparation discussions and can request specific exceptions within the regulations where it suits them.

[Musicophile]

Actually, it could well be that Hifi amps are next.

 

In this very recently (early July) published official Deloitte study commissioned by the European Commission amplifiers are identified as a savings potential:

 

http://www.ecodesign-wp3.eu/sites/default/files/Ecodesign%20WP3_Draft_Task_3_report_11072014.pdf

 

pp. 217 ff.

 

Quoting:

 

"It has been noted that amplifiers are one of the biggest sources of energy consumption in an equipment rack. Due to the inherent inefficiencies in amplifying signals, audio amplifiers are also the

biggest sources of heat in the rack."

[CatManDo]

Well, how often do you hoover the house ? OK, not I guess. But your wife ?

Your 75W amplifier is on for ? 24/7 ? Ah, that seems to be 1800W per day. Per channel of course.

 

As I wrote above, the EU also tackled standby consumption, but of course this can be circumvented by leaving the devices on, alrhough they are not meant to be.

 

I find it funny when (mostly US) posters on audio forums say hifi equipment must be left on while idle all the time so it sounds best. Apparently many Americans also leave their home air conditioning on while going away on holiday.

 

It just shows that electricity is still much too cheap to make consumers think about the responsible use of energy. And the companies who manufacture electrical devices also don't limit consumption unless they are forced to.

 

The main problem with this new regulation is "Why vacuum cleaners?". The EU commission too often comes up with isolated measures which don't tackle the most important problems.

[PeterSt]

The vacuum cleaner thing has been brought up just because it has been proven that a 900W can suck as good as a 1600W one. The example I heard this morning was about cars being able to perform better with larger engines hence (horse) power, while the other route, making them more efficient, works out the same.

 

Where this leaves the small manufacturer is indeed another thing.

[PeterSt]

I find it funny when (mostly US) posters on audio forums say hifi equipment must be left on while idle all the time so it sounds best. Apparently many Americans also leave their home air conditioning on while going away on holiday.

 

That's so because then the house is nicely cool when they arrive back and the noise can be shut off.

For 2 hours.

 

Otherwise I never "saw" that US citizens leave on their gear more than "we" do. At least I always leave it on, because otherwise it takes 2 days to sound good again. For example, try switching off with Black Gates in there.

 

But true, like in my case all went a bit mad at some stage and I consumed 12000 KWH per year. Took me a year to find something acceptable which ran "cool", but when I did it took down the bill by 4000KWH (still always on).

Yes, such figures like the latter could be the consumption of a whole year for many.

[PeterSt]

Quoting:

 

"It has been noted that amplifiers are one of the biggest sources of energy consumption in an equipment rack.

 

Well, when regulations would cut in that, it won't bring a thing. So they better leave it be.

I mean, I suppose every household has a vacuum cleaner, but how many have nicely heating amplifiers ? 1/1000 ? 1/10000 ?

[rwwjr44]

As I wrote above, the EU also tackled standby consumption, but of course this can be circumvented by leaving the devices on, alrhough they are not meant to be.

 

I find it funny when (mostly US) posters on audio forums say hifi equipment must be left on while idle all the time so it sounds best. Apparently many Americans also leave their home air conditioning on while going away on holiday.

 

It just shows that electricity is still much too cheap to make consumers think about the responsible use of energy. And the companies who manufacture electrical devices also don't limit consumption unless they are forced to.

 

The main problem with this new regulation is "Why vacuum cleaners?". The EU commission too often comes up with isolated measures which don't tackle the most important problems.

 

Leaving equipment on 24/7 isn't IMHO a very good idea. What I don't like, is that a lot of audio equipment have power switches in inconvenient locations; implying that the equipment shouldn't be powered off (i.e. preamps and many class-D amplifiers).

[CatManDo]

Well, when regulations would cut in that, it won't bring a thing. So they better leave it be.

I mean, I suppose every household has a vacuum cleaner, but how many have nicely heating amplifiers ? 1/1000 ? 1/10000 ?

 

I'm wondering about this as well. Not everyone has a powerful amplifier. Many households just use a small speaker system attached to the TV. Music is now mainly listened on portable devices. Among the entertainment hardware on an average house, it's the big TV screen and the gaming console that has the highest electricity consumption.

[Superdad]

Most flat-screen LCD and plasma televisions (except for the newest ones with LED backlights) consume more electricity than 36" CRT sets did. That was a surprise to me when I bought our 42" Toshiba LCD a few years back.

[elcorso]

Amplifier stated power output on watts per channel is not the power consumption in watts.

 

Per example, I own and amp. 140 watts per channel spec, but it can achieve 900 watts in power consumption on peaks and 120 watts in standby. Is a valve amp. then it is ON only when listening to music.

 

Roch

[sandyk]

Only higher powered valve and Class A solid state amplifiers should be of concern. My SS 15W/Ch Class A amplifier uses approximately 100W at all times. With high powered amplifiers that aren't in Class A operation, it's not as if they are driven with full power sine waves at all times. The current drawn depends mainly on program content, and in a typical domestic situation may often be only around several watts average output power level.

[sandyk]

That's so because then the house is nicely cool when they arrive back and the noise can be shut off.

For 2 hours.

 

Otherwise I never "saw" that US citizens leave on their gear more than "we" do. At least I always leave it on, because otherwise it takes 2 days to sound good again. For example, try switching off with Black Gates in there.

 

But true, like in my case all went a bit mad at some stage and I consumed 12000 KWH per year. Took me a year to find something acceptable which ran "cool", but when I did it took down the bill by 4000KWH (still always on).

Yes, such figures like the latter could be the consumption of a whole year for many.

 

Hey

Peter

That must have been some kind of Mama Honker Gainclone !

 

Regards

Alex

[thesurfingalien]

According to the new regulations in European Union, from today you cannot buy vacuum cleaners more powerful than 1.600 W!!

And somewhere I read that in the future they will expand the list of appliances, amplifiers are also listed! WTF!!

 

Imagine in five years time, you are prohibited to buy amplifier with more than 75 W per channel.

 

The only thing I can say to this is: "Nothing Sucks Like an Electrolux"

[Audio_ELF]

Most flat-screen LCD and plasma televisions (except for the newest ones with LED backlights) consume more electricity than 36" CRT sets did. That was a surprise to me when I bought our 42" Toshiba LCD a few years back.

The difference is though that the standby power is much reduced.

 

I was just curious and here are some comparisons...

36" (Sony) CRT - 240w / 2w standby

50" (Panasonic) Plasma - 400w / 0.2w standby

65" (Samsung) 4k LCD - 290w (max) / 164w (IEC mesaured)

 

Eloise

[DigiPete]

And don't blame the EU for forcing manufacturers to develop more sustainable products.

Manufacturers should have done that a long time ago - by them selves in respect for their children and grandchildren and mother Earth.

 

Thank Europe for taking the burden to pull the world in a more responsible direction - again.

Your guns and your abrasive rhetoric will not save you from the oil-arabs, but these initiatives may just soften the blow.

 

/Rant end/

[fmak]

And don't blame the EU for forcing manufacturers to develop more sustainable products.

Manufacturers should have done that a long time ago - by them selves in respect for their children and grandchildren and mother Earth.

 

Thank Europe for taking the burden to pull the world in a more responsible direction - again.

Your guns and your abrasive rhetoric will not save you from the oil-arabs, but these initiatives may just soften the blow.

 

/Rant end/

 

the member countries that enable rules to be made.

 

There is a lot of dirty laundry going on say, in Britain, for ridiculing the EU, when

in fact it is US and other conglomerates' business interests that are being played.

The media is at the heart of all this, with reports being sexed up 10 minutes from copy time.

[Jsmith]

And don't blame the EU for forcing manufacturers to develop more sustainable products.

Manufacturers should have done that a long time ago - by them selves in respect for their children and grandchildren and mother Earth.

 

Thank Europe for taking the burden to pull the world in a more responsible direction - again.

Your guns and your abrasive rhetoric will not save you from the oil-arabs, but these initiatives may just soften the blow.

 

/Rant end/

 

Digipete this seems completely unnecessary. You just lumped all American's into a Stereoytype which shows how ignorant you are. Just because you feel that you and your way of life are perfect and everyone should adhere, does not really make it acceptable to rant such things.

 

The past two companies I have worked for were both non American. So I have worked with many international team members. In my experience, the Americans on my teams have been no more or less lazy than there non American counterparts. So this is just a broad generalization you like to make to put down others you clearly do not like.

 

There are also many Americans who do things to spearhead environmental awareness. My family recycles wherever we can. I try to buy earth friendly detergents and other cleaning products. I wash my clothes on cold water. I used cloth diapers for both of my children. I try to unplug unnecessary energy vampires in our house. My family uses solar power where they can. And so on.

 

You should really think before you speak.

 

P.S. - Forgot to add, I don't own any guns...

[Audio_ELF]

And don't blame the EU for forcing manufacturers to develop more sustainable products.

Manufacturers should have done that a long time ago - by them selves in respect for their children and grandchildren and mother Earth.

 

Thank Europe for taking the burden to pull the world in a more responsible direction - again.

Your guns and your abrasive rhetoric will not save you from the oil-arabs, but these initiatives may just soften the blow.

 

/Rant end/

Actually I would change the title to "Stop whining you ignorant right wing British newspapers" :-)

 

Eloise

[DigiPete]

Actually I would change the title to "Stop whining you ignorant right wing British newspapers" :-)

 

Eloise

 

 

We should all fully embrace positive sustainable changes how ever they are enforced.

See the larger picture, not the bumps on the road!

 

Bitch about the things that should be better, more efficient, less wasteful.

Or even better: STOP Talking, START doing !!!

 

 

 

And apologies to the resource saving, recycling, organic, war opposing and bicycling part of the american community.

You are true heroes - like the German resistance during WW2.