Why no audiophile Airport Express alternative?

[tranz]

Yes, it generates some jitter. However, the analog out of the AE going into a DAC with strong jitter rejection and re-clocking abilities, such as the Benchmark DAC2, works very well. The only, admittedly strong, limitation is that it is bit perfect only at 16-bit 44.1kHz, but this is the format of the vast majority of the existing catalog.

 

I was thinking more about the switching power supply that is spitting back a lot of noise into the AC circuit, and the EMI field it throws. This could negatively impact your other components and audio cables if close enough. Try running an AM radio near the AE to get an indication.

[Paul R]

So you think that AirPlay can pretty much serve up "about any level of audiophile excellence you want"?

 

Save for HiRes or DSD, pretty much so. Redbook is no trouble for it at all. Feeding an Airport Express into a $5000 DAC may be a little overkill, but hey... how about a $2K Benchmark?

 

-Paul

[Isaacc7]

I was thinking more about the switching power supply that is spitting back a lot of noise into the AC circuit, and the EMI field it throws. This could negatively impact your other components and audio cables if close enough. Try running an AM radio near the AE to get an indication.

 

There are pretty strict rules from the FCC about EMI and how much interference is allowed. If switching power supplies are bad for audio because of line noise, better make sure you don't have any plugged in anywhere on the circuit. That includes many computers, printers, cell phone chargers, etc. It's hard to imagine any of that stuff actually causing problems.

[tranz]

There are pretty strict rules from the FCC about EMI and how much interference is allowed. If switching power supplies are bad for audio because of line noise, better make sure you don't have any plugged in anywhere on the circuit. That includes many computers, printers, cell phone chargers, etc. It's hard to imagine any of that stuff actually causing problems.

 

The FCC is not really that strict, as long as it does not interfere with TV signals or broadcast radio signals. Military is a good example where they use much stricter rules. Audio is quite sensitive to all the harmonics created, and our ears are amazingly sensitive instruments. It helps reduce the noise floor.

 

Indeed, remove as many switching supplies from your audio circuit as possible, and add some quality power conditioners or balanced power units between the wall and your audio components to minimize the impact of dimmers, LED lights, fan motors, etc. And be careful with cross contamination of components, as the computer or video chip in a processor will spit back a lot of noise. Check out some of the threads on linear power supplies for more info.

 

Cheers

[mrvco]

More research uncovered another intriguing option, the Wyred 4 Sound Remedy, which is a reclocker (not clear to me whether there's a digital buffer in there or not, as well). Since it omits the DAC altogether, it's $399 (rather than the $599 for the Arcam AirDAC), but it still requires an Airport Express, so really $498 altogether. So now I have two options to explore (with due respect to all the awesome Linux options, I'm not looking for another tinkers project right now). Turns out there was more out there than I initially thought!

 

Here's the description on the product page:

 

Has anyone tried the Remedy with an Airport Express yet?

 

A large percentage of my listening occurs through an Airport Express (802.11G generation) due strictly to the convenience. I've been considering replacing the Music Hall dac15.2 in my home office system with something a bit more upmarket (Schiit, Rega, PS Audio, etc.). I wouldn't expect the Remedy to be an alternative to the DAC upgrade, but to shore up the inadequacies of the Airport Express.

 

I'm also wondering whether pairing the Remedy w/ an AppleTV would produce better results with higher resolution than Redbook content since they are both fully 96 KHz capable.

[realhifi]

Save for HiRes or DSD, pretty much so. Redbook is no trouble for it at all. Feeding an Airport Express into a $5000 DAC may be a little overkill, but hey... how about a $2K Benchmark?

 

-Paul

 

So you think that taking optical out from an AirPort Express into a dac is as good as taking USB from computer into same dac? (Presuming of course you are listening to iTunes).

[Paul R]

So you think that taking optical out from an AirPort Express into a dac is as good as taking USB from computer into same dac? (Presuming of course you are listening to iTunes).

 

It can be, especially when the most you are pumping out is redbook, yes, I do. Why I suggested a Benchmark. No power noise or other eletrical interference in the transmission.

[realhifi]

It can be, especially when the most you are pumping out is redbook, yes, I do. Why I suggested a Benchmark. No power noise or other eletrical interference in the transmission.

 

Cool. So when you've done these listening tests and found AirPlay into a Benchmark DAC2 as good as USB from a Mac Mini were you using any other software than iTunes for playback?

[Musicophile]

I think nobody has mentioned this one yet, by Micromega:

 

WM-10

 

I had it for home trial a bit more than two years ago, sounded really nice, but decided against it due to the redbook limitation.

 

Micromega has decent experience in digital gear, their first CD players were little audiophile gems.

[unsleepable]

I think nobody has mentioned this one yet, by Micromega:

 

WM-10

 

I had it for home trial a bit more than two years ago, sounded really nice, but decided against it due to the redbook limitation.

 

Micromega has decent experience in digital gear, their first CD players were little audiophile gems.

 

Wasn't this the one that had an Airport Express board inside?

 

Anyways, the Airport Express transmits bit-perfect audio, and an external DAC can resolve any jitter issue. It doesn't get any better than that for 44.1/16. It'd be difficult to justify the price of the Micromega.

 

 

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[Musicophile]

Wasn't this the one that had an Airport Express board inside?

 

Anyways, the Airport Express transmits bit-perfect audio, and an external DAC can resolve any jitter issue. It doesn't get any better than that for 44.1/16. It'd be difficult to justify the price of the Micromega.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes, the unit is based on an airport express for the data transfer. What happens to the signal after reception is supposed to be different than what the AE does. In any case, that box sounded better than my AE.

 

 

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[mrvco]

Yes, the unit is based on an airport express for the data transfer. What happens to the signal after reception is supposed to be different than what the AE does. In any case, that box sounded better than my AE.

 

 

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How good is the DAC in that thing?... $1600 minus $99 for an AE buys a lot DAC nowadays.

[Musicophile]

How good is the DAC in that thing?... $1600 minus $99 for an AE buys a lot DAC nowadays.

Don't know what's in it, I didn't buy it, just audition. I just wanted to flag what the OP was looking for, an audiophile AE alternative.

 

 

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[robfol]

Hi all,

 

The Arcam airDAC delivers AirPlay streaming at 16/44 which is the max for the Airplay protocol.

 

The AirDac is also a fully fledged UpNP DNLA client. DNLA streaming is handled at up to 24/96.

 

There is no upsampling or processing carried out.

 

There also are additional SPDIF and Optical inputs for 24/96 sources

 

"Our latest free iPhone/Pad app Songbook is a UPnP music player and control app that you can download from the Apple App Store to use with you airDAC. For Android you can use a number of other UPnP controllers, such as Plug Player and Bubble. Also may on the PC and MAC"

"Airplay is limited to playing Apple Lossless files at 16/44, whereas using UPnP, the airDAC can handle up to 24bit 96kHz files steamed from your computer, NAS drive or Music Server."

 

[robfol]

Sounds like the airDAC might be just the thing to replace both the AE and the Genesis reclocking box. I'll give it a try.

 

Let me know how you get on?

 

Cheers Robert

[Audio_ELF]

How good is the DAC in [the MicroMega WM-10]... $1600 minus $99 for an AE buys a lot DAC nowadays.

 

Don't know what's in it, I didn't buy it, just audition. I just wanted to flag what the OP was looking for, an audiophile AE alternative.

 

I was curious about this comment ... The D/A converter is completely new and do not use the airport D/A converter anymore. ... on the ARIA page for their ARIA AirDream player. The implication being that the WM-10 just utilised the AirPort's D/A converter.

 

Eloise

[unsleepable]

The Arcam airDAC delivers AirPlay streaming at 16/44 which is the max for the Airplay protocol.

 

It's the maximum for AirPlay with the airDac, but not for the protocol itself. The AppleTV already accepts 48KHz with the same protocol, and I don't think there is a limit as the receiver can set any resolution.

 

I believe the reason that we currently see AirPlay implementations with limited resolution is for compatibility with iPhones and iPods. Since it's not possible to negotiate the sample rate and size, a sensible default is used.

 

 

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[Paul R]

Cool. So when you've done these listening tests and found AirPlay into a Benchmark DAC2 as good as USB from a Mac Mini were you using any other software than iTunes for playback?

 

Hah! A good way to spend a few hours on a Sunday afternoon. Here is what I did and the results from it.

Equipment:

 

Stock 2013 Mac Mini, i5, 4gb RAM, 500gb internal drive, OSx v10.9.3

External 1.5TB Seagate USB powered drive for music storage

iTunes 11.3.1

JRMC v19.0.154 Mac Version

24" Silflex glass optical cable with armored jacket

Benchmark DAC1 (using optical connection)

Peachtree DAC*IT (using optical connection)

Airport Express v7.6.4.

NAD BEE356 Integrated Amplifier w/Nordost Blue Heaven 1 meter interconnects.

Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables (2 meter pair with banana plugs)

Magnepan MMG speakers, on wood/brick stands mounted vertically 3.5" above the wood.

 

*Belkin Cat 6 ethernet cable, 1 meter.

 

Using the above setup, I was able to test the sound of Redbook directly from a Mac and through an Airport express. I did connect the Mac and Airport Express with an ethernet cable due to their proximity in my makeshift lab setting. The speakers are 6ft apart and the listening chair is 9 feet away from the speakers and unit. The room is carpeted and the door was closed.

 

About 10,000 test tracks were placed on the system in various formats, ALAC, FLAC, AAC, and AIFF. These were copied from the main music library here and represent a cross section of most of the music, styles, artists, and genre's, I listen to most frequently. The music was in most cases, ripped from CDs I own, but also included tracks and album purchased from the iTunes store, and a few high resolution titles, purchased from HDTracks.

 

Testing was accomplished by physically switching the TOSlink cable between source and target comments. DACs were, were appropriate, set t their full internal volume.

 

The long and the short of it? I was unable to reliably tell the difference between the Airport Express and the Mac. And both sounded very good.

 

Now the question was to try the difference between USB and SP/DIF input from the optical connections of the DACs. In every case, USB fed directly to those DACs sounded cry much worse than the original. I surmise this because of the poor USB implementation on each of those two DACs.

 

Connecting USB to a DAC that handles USB better, such as to a Wavelength Proton or to an iFi Mini iDSD DAC. However, using the iFi MINI as a USB to SP/DIF converter resulted in a better, but still different sound, even when played back though the Mac with a Coax to Optical convertor between the DAC1 and the Peachtree DAC*IT.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

[unsleepable]

I've also done a similar test with my irDac, to compare the sound directly from the computer through USB with an Airport Express connected to the TOSLINK port. And my findings were the same: I couldn't find a difference in terms of sound quality.

 

 

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[Musicophile]

I was curious about this comment ... The D/A converter is completely new and do not use the airport D/A converter anymore. ... on the ARIA page for their ARIA AirDream player. The implication being that the WM-10 just utilised the AirPort's D/A converter.

 

Eloise

Could be, but would be sad if true. On my system, the WM-10 sounded better than the AE, but that could have been expectation bias.

[mrvco]

Could be, but would be sad if true. On my system, the WM-10 sounded better than the AE, but that could have been expectation bias.

 

Using the digital-out to your DAC in both cases?

[jriver]

Should be pretty simple -- basically, an audiophile version of the Airport Express (just the Airplay bits, not the hotspot bits, and no DAC). Essentially, a DAC-less audiophile version of the Airport Express...

If you're willing to consider DLNA/UPnP instead of Airplay, we make this device:

 

JRiver Id -- High Quality Audio Hardware

 

Connected via USB to your DAC, it will play any audio JRiver Media Center can play.

[Musicophile]

Using the digital-out to your DAC in both cases?

No, this was before I had my Dac, while I was shopping for one. The AE was connected with a simple 3.5 to cinch cable, and the WM-10 with the regular analog out.

[realhifi]

 

Now the question was to try the difference between USB and SP/DIF input from the optical connections of the DACs. In every case, USB fed directly to those DACs sounded cry much worse than the original. I surmise this because of the poor USB implementation on each of those two DACs.

 

Connecting USB to a DAC that handles USB better, such as to a Wavelength Proton or to an iFi Mini iDSD DAC. However, using the iFi MINI as a USB to SP/DIF converter resulted in a better, but still different sound, even when played back though the Mac with a Coax to Optical convertor between the DAC1 and the Peachtree DAC*IT.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

Thanks. Just curious how you came up with your recommendation.

[Paul R]

Thanks. Just curious how you came up with your recommendation.

 

it was kind of fun to back check myself a bit there. And remember, once you go to hi-res formats, all bets are off as far as I am concerned. I think USB is almost unchallenged when it comes to high end computer audio with Hires, DSD, etc.

 

-Paul