Auralic Lightning DS App (Software) - Impressions and Information

[Audio_ELF]

I thought I would update with my problems I'm still seeing with Lightning DS app...

 

• I've worked out an issue in having with the Lightning DS app - it appears to have issues where there is a : or ; and maybe a , and brackets in the tags. So for example I have an album title
  Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]
  I then get the artist listed beneath as
  Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]Amy Winehouse
  This may be a combination of Lightning DS app and Minimserver as on the LMS7.8 UPnP server and other control points they display correctly. I'll try to do more checking tomorrow.
  Update: as observed earlier this is caused primarily by having an "AlbumArtist" tag - removing AlbumArtist from tags scanned by MinimServer has removed this as an issue. However there is still the issue present where an album has multiple tags for the artist in each track.
  
• With the LMS UPnP server I don't get any composers read in.
  
• It appears if there is an & the Lightning DS app looses the space either side.
  
• Having removed AlbumArtist tags, a lot of the previously affected albums now have no tracks listed.
  

Separately there is functionality I think needs adding...

• There appears to be no support for having multiple Artist tags.
  
• There needs to be support added for "Various Artist" CDs.
  

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Various Artist is a function from server side. We just display what returned from server side.

Perhaps true Wang, but a lot of control points will look for "Compilation" tag or where there are multiple artists in a disc but no AlbumArtist tag and place these albums in a specific "Compilation" or "Various Artists" section either above or below every other artist.

 

Its not about what the control point SHOULD do, its about what is user friendly.

 

Another functionality enhancement needed - as your app (appears to) ignores sort order instructions sent by the server, you need the option to ignore words like "The" "A" "Le" "Les" etc at the start of titles.

 

For example I want to see The Beatles listed between Bat for Lashes and Ben Folds Five rather than between The Apples and The Beautiful South. Ideally though you should follow the "Artist Sort" order sent by the server - but I know a lot of control points ignore that. And yes I know I could change all my tags, but as it works in other applications I don't see why I should have to.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

There is no so called 'sort order' from server side. They only return album ID which is a series of number, the control point just sort by what server sent back. What you are asking for is impossible: program dont know which word you want to remove and which one you dont. I am 100% sure none of the classical fan want Verdi's 'La traviata' to be displayed as 'traviata'.

Do you not receive tags such as "ArtistSort" and "AlbumSort"?

 

Certainly when I browse the folder view they are in my desired order as per the Artist Sort tags I painstakingly created.

 

In MinimServer I have tagOptions set as all.ignore.sort={The,A,Les} so that when I browse the tree they are in the "correct" place, order.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

We do not give special treatment for Minimserver, all DLNA server are considered same. What you mentioned wont effect our Library view function, it only effect folder view.

I understand that Wang ... but what I am saying in the first sentence is about tags independent of any server.

 

Where I want artists (or albums) to be listed in a particular way I have added ArtistSort and/or AlbumSort (I think those are the correct names of the tags). These are added with MP3Tag and I believe are standard tag types.

 

Why then can the application not read these tags and use them to sort the artists / albums in the way I have chosen them to sort?

 

I'm just trying to understand ...

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Because pretty a lot of server software return library description file with a lot of error (not to uPnP standard). We have to use minimum information from server side and apply restriction to make sure it wont crash the App. So basically, the best way is to do everything by App itself. Compatibility is always the 1st priority.

Thats all very well... but it means the app doesn't work in the way the user wants...

 

So Lightning DS only reads what tags?

 

Eloise

 

PS. it gets very confusing for a user (even when like me they have some idea how this all works together) gets the answer for one question it depends on the server; and then in another question the answer is we ignore what the server sends (as an order).

[Audio_ELF]

Eloise, I think the key is to use the folder navigation, as it supports (or it should support) the way minimserver works...I suspect ArtistSort show up nicely...

Yes you're right it works that way ... but then whats the point of the nice appearance of the Lightning DS app. (To me) using the Lightning DS app that way brings no improvement over Kinsky and Kinsky has always been very stable.

 

I know of course that Aries have developed this app for use with their player primarily; but just curious how it is going to work with other systems.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Naim also contains a DAC and in some cases amplifiers. I would expect that Naim, ProJect and a few other manufacturers that package a number of features in their network streamer will (if not already) eventually add Spotify and Pandora. Most of the pure renderers don't. What they will do in the future is anyones bet.

That's splitting hairs...

 

While the Naim may be a renderer WITH DAC and the Aerie a renderer without DAC; I would not expect the functionality of the actual renderer to be any different. The Aeries is just in two boxes.

 

So you asked for a high end renderer which supports Spotify ... The Naim (in the future) may do; and the Marantz NA-11s1 already does.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Oh... Sadly everyone disagrees and the Aries actually IS a streamer!!! And that includes Auralic.

 

Just google "Auralic Aries" and all the announcements of its availability and sales links call it a streamer so I guess that's why everyone is expecting it to do what other streamers do.

 

Eloise

 

That isn't splitting hairs. A pure renderer lacks many of the features that the "streamers" do. I have a DAC and I didn't want to buy a streamer (renderer + DAC + many other things). Believe me, there are many streamers and few renderers on the market. I don't know of any (I may be wrong) renderer that has more than an internet radio package. That is fine for me, but there are others that confuse the Aires for a music streamer and complain about it lack of features.

 

I prefer to know when the unit will be ready for prime time and am interested in its continual state of development.

 

Oh, I don't need the frills.

[Audio_ELF]

Since JRMC contains a UPnP/DLNA control point, you should already be able to use it to control the Aries (doesn't need need anything 'extra' from Auralic), even when remote controlling JRMC via JRemote!

I agree with Cebolla this should work out of the box with JRiver... Can anyone who has the Aries confirm or deny compatibility?

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Why DSapp can not make it's own library index like Sonos? In that case you can get fast response, fast app. I believe that hardware is light year ahead of Sonos, and sonos is fast.

I do find some aspects of the App frustrating (mostly that sorting is not to my preference and the inability to utilise "extended" tags in Library mode) but I've not found the App slow (iPad 2). I've also found it quite stable controlling various UPnP devices via OpenHome emulation provided by Bubble UPnP server.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The mildly discomforting fact may be that two people who never changed their settings have different settings....maybe this proves the existence of a parallel universe.

Its possible the default was different in two different versions of MinimServer...

[Audio_ELF]

I would love to see Lightning DS display the liner notes in pdf in the directory of the music playing. I don't even know if this is possible at all.

It would need support at the server software...

[Audio_ELF]

Very interesting to see the AirPlay option still there! Has Auralic been the first to strike a deal with Apple to stream from an Android device via Airplay?

Or does it just tell the Aries to enter "Airplay" mode?

[Audio_ELF]

Eloise, did you ever get this sorting to work with LDS / MinimServer? I've seen Wang Xuanqian's feedback, which I'm puzzled with as a user (as I believe are you). I've just recently learned about the tagging in MinimServer and its possibly potential to bypass the stubbornness of Auralic (in my opinion).

 

anyways, I'd be interested to learn you most recent insights of how LDS could be improved for user experience for Artist/ Album sorting.

 

regards, M

As far as I can see, there is no improvement over sorting in LDS.

 

It's my personal preference and I'm not suggesting others should feel the same, but in an A-Z list Aerosmith should not come just before Alanis Morissette and Alma Cogan. I've tagged my files with a sorting order so LDS should follow that order.

 

For now this means LDS is of no interest (though not using an Aeries as I settled on Naim integrated player).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

What I would see was an embedded version.

I hate the idea of having to use a computer to host the Roon Server.

That was my main point with buying the Aries, so I am afraid it is a deal breaker for me.

 

Bummer......

Roon Labs suggest there would be no where near the power needed in the Aries to run the "core" needed.

 

The ideal would be a "core" server with storage which would replace the NAS.

 

The idea of the Aries is to remove the computer connecting to a DAC, which Roon will still do!

[Audio_ELF]

I have it running on my Samsung Tab S 8.4. It works as good as on my phone. But it's not as refined as BubbleUnP LDS at this stage IMO. However, LDS allows you to access internet radio, I haven't seen that function in Bubble, at least in the free version.

Depending on your UPnP server you may be able to set up radio station "play lists" for access via BubbleUPnP DS.

[Audio_ELF]

I understand version 2 of the Lightning DS application is coming soon... Will it support user defined sorting order for artists and albums?

 

It's really frustrating that The Carpenters are sorted under "T" yet to find Karen Carpenter's solo album I need to look under "K". Neither makes sense to me! The two entries should be next to each other under "C".

 

So please, please, please follow "AlbumSort"; "ArtistSort"; "AlbumArtistSort" rather than strict A-Z

[Audio_ELF]

The Carpenters show up under "C" for me. I use Miminserver and set a rule for handling "The".

Is that with the displayed name as "The Carpenters" or "Carpenters, The"? And are you using the library mode or folder mode of the Lightning DS software?

 

I also use Minimserver.

[Audio_ELF]

Eloise - I need to check at home what the display name is. I am using Library Mode. I am also as I mentioned setting properties in Minimserver to ignore the article "The". Will post that too.

 

BTW, to your point of "The Carpenters" vs "Carpenters, The" that also varies with which control point is used. Minimserver has the capability to do the "right" thing, and I think in this case the Lightning DS software is not doing the "right" thing.

 

I spent a lot of time messing around with those tags and then comparing them in different control points. Much too much time in fact.

 

In Roon I don't have this problem at all, I can just type /carpent and get taken right to "The Carpenters". And they do show up properly under "C", in fact the only group with the article "The" that shows up under "T" in Roon that I have in my collection is "The The".

With my setup, every control point which follows server sorting orders as Carpenters, The and Carpenter, Karen (to use the example stated) while displaying The Carpenters and Karen Carpenter. With Lightning DS in Library mode (and Lumin for that matter) hey are both displayed and sorted as The Carpenters and Karen Carpenter (so the first with The Beatles and The Beach Boys, etc).

[Audio_ELF]

@Audio_elf (Eloise)

 

In Lightning DS they show up under "C" as "Carpenters, The".

That's sounds like it's as I thought - you can't have The Carpenters displayed but sorted as Carpenters, The.

 

It maybe that it's just impossible with UPnP unless you are using a "folder" view.

 

At the end of the day I just use Kazoo which (to my mind) works better in folder mode was just wondering if it's something Auralic can and will address as it's an annoyance to me that things don't sort the way *I* want them to...

[Audio_ELF]

Well you may have missed it above, but Minimserver can in fact do what you want, you just cannot get it to do it that way with the Lightning DS application, with other controls points it will in fact display as you desire if you tune the ignore tag.

 

I think this is the tag that will work properly with other control points ( I don't think I tested it with Kazoo )

 

Album.sortTags={Album, Artist}, Artist.ignore.sort={The}, AlbumArtist.ignore.index.sort={The}

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear yes I know Minimserver does that (it does it for me)... Just as you say not with Lightning DS (nor Lumin).

[Audio_ELF]

How do you know this?

 

I use folder view often, especially the last import. I don't see why they would get rid of functionality.

On that link to Facebook...

 

"Hello Dejan: Folder is a function we are going to remove in far future version, we suggest you to just 'library' as we won't add additional new feature to folder since 2.0"

[Audio_ELF]

Can I ask ... what do people feel the advantage of using SMB from the NAS to the Aries and then allow the Aries to provide the UPnP (Lightning) server vs just running Minimserver or other on the NAS?

[Audio_ELF]

(what are Kudos, btw?)

They are a great, no-nonsense British speaker brand! But perhaps not what you were referring to :-)

[Audio_ELF]

To those having problems with NAS connections... Are you running your Aries on wired or wireless? Some issues may be caused by your routers blocking connections.