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Auralic Lightning DS App (Software) - Impressions and Information


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Now that the Auralic Lightning DS iOS application has been released, the discussion of the software is in this thread.

 

 

The previous discussion can be found here -> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/auralic-aries-universal-plug-dplay-renderer-double-direct-stream-digital-over-wi-fi-18798/

Founder of Audiophile Style

UPDATED: My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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I thought I would update with my problems I'm still seeing with Lightning DS app...

 

  • I've worked out an issue in having with the Lightning DS app - it appears to have issues where there is a : or ; and maybe a , and brackets in the tags. So for example I have an album title
    Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]
    I then get the artist listed beneath as
    Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]Amy Winehouse
    This may be a combination of Lightning DS app and Minimserver as on the LMS7.8 UPnP server and other control points they display correctly. I'll try to do more checking tomorrow.
    Update: as observed earlier this is caused primarily by having an "AlbumArtist" tag - removing AlbumArtist from tags scanned by MinimServer has removed this as an issue. However there is still the issue present where an album has multiple tags for the artist in each track.
  • With the LMS UPnP server I don't get any composers read in.
  • It appears if there is an & the Lightning DS app looses the space either side.
  • Having removed AlbumArtist tags, a lot of the previously affected albums now have no tracks listed.

Separately there is functionality I think needs adding...

  • There appears to be no support for having multiple Artist tags.
  • There needs to be support added for "Various Artist" CDs.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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No, not yet integrated.

 

I think Auralic will add such integration through firmware upgrade.

 

Sure hope this is the case but I once emailed Mr Wang and he cited some technical issue and asked me to simply use AirPlay. An integrated app would sure be much better.

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Talked with Spotify about March this year but pretty hard to work with them as they have a lot of restriction. We will try later after current App is stable. Also looking for a integration of TuneIn too.

 

Streaming services such as Spotify which only offer 320K MP3 quality at maximum wont get sound quality benefit from native integration as AirPlay is in 44.1/16 lossless ALAC. But it do offer better user experience.

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I thought I would update with my problems I'm still seeing with Lightning DS app...

 

  • I've worked out an issue in having with the Lightning DS app - it appears to have issues where there is a : or ; and maybe a , and brackets in the tags. So for example I have an album title
    Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]
    I then get the artist listed beneath as
    Back to Black [Deluxe Edition]Amy Winehouse
    This may be a combination of Lightning DS app and Minimserver as on the LMS7.8 UPnP server and other control points they display correctly. I'll try to do more checking tomorrow.
    Update: as observed earlier this is caused primarily by having an "AlbumArtist" tag - removing AlbumArtist from tags scanned by MinimServer has removed this as an issue. However there is still the issue present where an album has multiple tags for the artist in each track.
  • With the LMS UPnP server I don't get any composers read in.
  • It appears if there is an & the Lightning DS app looses the space either side.
  • Having removed AlbumArtist tags, a lot of the previously affected albums now have no tracks listed.

Separately there is functionality I think needs adding...

  • There appears to be no support for having multiple Artist tags.
  • There needs to be support added for "Various Artist" CDs.

 

Eloise

 

Various Artist is a function from server side. We just display what returned from server side.

 

PS: The first problem has been located and will be fixed by next release.

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Various Artist is a function from server side. We just display what returned from server side.

Perhaps true Wang, but a lot of control points will look for "Compilation" tag or where there are multiple artists in a disc but no AlbumArtist tag and place these albums in a specific "Compilation" or "Various Artists" section either above or below every other artist.

 

Its not about what the control point SHOULD do, its about what is user friendly.

 

Another functionality enhancement needed - as your app (appears to) ignores sort order instructions sent by the server, you need the option to ignore words like "The" "A" "Le" "Les" etc at the start of titles.

 

For example I want to see The Beatles listed between Bat for Lashes and Ben Folds Five rather than between The Apples and The Beautiful South. Ideally though you should follow the "Artist Sort" order sent by the server - but I know a lot of control points ignore that. And yes I know I could change all my tags, but as it works in other applications I don't see why I should have to.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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There is no so called 'sort order' from server side. They only return album ID which is a series of number, the control point just sort by what server sent back. What you are asking for is impossible: program dont know which word you want to remove and which one you dont. I am 100% sure none of the classical fan want Verdi's 'La traviata' to be displayed as 'traviata'. I can raise hundred of sample immediately, do you really want Celine Dion's 'A new day has come' to be displayed without first A?

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There is no so called 'sort order' from server side. They only return album ID which is a series of number, the control point just sort by what server sent back. What you are asking for is impossible: program dont know which word you want to remove and which one you dont. I am 100% sure none of the classical fan want Verdi's 'La traviata' to be displayed as 'traviata'.

Do you not receive tags such as "ArtistSort" and "AlbumSort"?

 

Certainly when I browse the folder view they are in my desired order as per the Artist Sort tags I painstakingly created.

 

In MinimServer I have tagOptions set as all.ignore.sort={The,A,Les} so that when I browse the tree they are in the "correct" place, order.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Do you not receive tags such as "ArtistSort" and "AlbumSort"?

 

Certainly when I browse the folder view they are in my desired order as per the Artist Sort tags I painstakingly created.

 

In MinimServer I have tagOptions set as all.ignore.sort={The,A,Les} so that when I browse the tree they are in the "correct" place, order.

 

Eloise

 

We do not give special treatment for Minimserver, all DLNA server are considered same. What you mentioned wont effect our Library view function, it only effect folder view.

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We do not give special treatment for Minimserver, all DLNA server are considered same. What you mentioned wont effect our Library view function, it only effect folder view.

I understand that Wang ... but what I am saying in the first sentence is about tags independent of any server.

 

Where I want artists (or albums) to be listed in a particular way I have added ArtistSort and/or AlbumSort (I think those are the correct names of the tags). These are added with MP3Tag and I believe are standard tag types.

 

Why then can the application not read these tags and use them to sort the artists / albums in the way I have chosen them to sort?

 

I'm just trying to understand ...

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

Link to comment
I understand that Wang ... but what I am saying in the first sentence is about tags independent of any server.

 

Where I want artists (or albums) to be listed in a particular way I have added ArtistSort and/or AlbumSort (I think those are the correct names of the tags). These are added with MP3Tag and I believe are standard tag types.

 

Why then can the application not read these tags and use them to sort the artists / albums in the way I have chosen them to sort?

 

I'm just trying to understand ...

 

Eloise

 

Because pretty a lot of server software return library description file with a lot of error (not to uPnP standard). We have to use minimum information from server side and apply restriction to make sure it wont crash the App. So basically, the best way is to do everything by App itself. Compatibility is always the 1st priority.

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Because pretty a lot of server software return library description file with a lot of error (not to uPnP standard). We have to use minimum information from server side and apply restriction to make sure it wont crash the App. So basically, the best way is to do everything by App itself. Compatibility is always the 1st priority.

Thats all very well... but it means the app doesn't work in the way the user wants...

 

So Lightning DS only reads what tags?

 

Eloise

 

PS. it gets very confusing for a user (even when like me they have some idea how this all works together) gets the answer for one question it depends on the server; and then in another question the answer is we ignore what the server sends (as an order).

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Thats all very well... but it means the app doesn't work in the way the user wants...

 

So Lightning DS only reads what tags?

 

Eloise

 

PS. it gets very confusing for a user (even when like me they have some idea how this all works together) gets the answer for one question it depends on the server; and then in another question the answer is we ignore what the server sends (as an order).

 

This is unavoidable for the solution relay on uPnP and all manufacturers have to face.

 

I think we only handle album title, track name, track number, artist, composer, genre and release date. We will probably add import time, sampling rate and file type if server support this in feature release.

 

Most of our target customers know little about tag and even network streaming. All they want is a solid solution never break out and can organize their library easily, they dont need complex and professional options which will make them feel puzzle. To make everything as simple as possible is the main purpose of Lightning DS.

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Do you not receive tags such as "ArtistSort" and "AlbumSort"?

 

Certainly when I browse the folder view they are in my desired order as per the Artist Sort tags I painstakingly created.

 

In MinimServer I have tagOptions set as all.ignore.sort={The,A,Les} so that when I browse the tree they are in the "correct" place, order.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise, I think the key is to use the folder navigation, as it supports (or it should support) the way minimserver works...I suspect ArtistSort show up nicely...

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Eloise, I think the key is to use the folder navigation, as it supports (or it should support) the way minimserver works...I suspect ArtistSort show up nicely...

Yes you're right it works that way ... but then whats the point of the nice appearance of the Lightning DS app. (To me) using the Lightning DS app that way brings no improvement over Kinsky and Kinsky has always been very stable.

 

I know of course that Aries have developed this app for use with their player primarily; but just curious how it is going to work with other systems.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

Link to comment
Nobody has artwork issues other than me?

 

I feel for you.

 

I don't recall if you have previously provided examples but I note from your sig that you have MinimServer installed on your NAS.

 

My apologies if you have already tried the following, but, if not, the results could be useful.

 

The MinimServer User guide/Your music library page Your music library describes how Album art is detected.

 

To confirm if Album art is detected by MinimServer, select the 'Show log' option within MinimWatch and save it to your desktop as a .txt file to make searching easier. (nb - you may also have to populate the log file by selecting the 'Rescan' option)

 

Embedded art should cause similar log entries to the following:-

22:32:41.004 main: ID3v2 frameID is APIC

22:32:41.004 main: ID3v2.3 frameSize is 9713

22:32:41.004 main: found APIC frame

22:32:41.004 main: JPEG image width=200 height=196

22:32:41.004 main: picture type is 3

22:32:41.004 main: picture MIME type is image/jpeg

 

Folder.jpg etc. should cause similar log entries to the following:-

22:32:41.020 main: found file Folder.jpg

22:32:41.051 main: ComponentClassLoader: using local class loader for class com.minimserver.Server$PictureFileInfo

22:32:41.051 main: Opening image file C:\Users\...\Janet Jackson\All for You\Folder.jpg

22:32:41.067 main: JPEG image width=200 height=196

 

Happy investigating.

 

Alan

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Spotify, Pandora, and other such popular music service integration is a total no brainer.

 

I wouldn't now buy a product like this until they were included.

 

Just sayin..

 

cheers.

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Why would a manufacturer limit the potential market for their product when these music services now have Millions of customers? And this is the primary way most people "buy" there music now..particularly the young (future) customers..> It would be insane thinking, not to put 110% effort into making Lightning software deliver the most popular music services as the no.1 priority..... Anyway..each to their own I guess.... Cheers

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Talked with Spotify about March this year but pretty hard to work with them as they have a lot of restriction.

 

What "restriction" are you referring to...? Cheers

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Yes you're right it works that way ... but then whats the point of the nice appearance of the Lightning DS app. (To me) using the Lightning DS app that way brings no improvement over Kinsky and Kinsky has always been very stable.

In what way does the "nice appearance" of the Lightning DS is harmed by using the folder option?

To me, Lumin is way better than Kinsky, and if LDS matches Lumin is already very good for a first release...

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Spotify, Pandora, and other such popular music service integration is a total no brainer. To squibble over a few dollars on whether or not it is worth a manufacturer buying the license for their software to support these sort of services, is ludicrous IMHO...

 

I wouldn't now buy a product like this until they were included.

 

Just sayin..

 

cheers.

 

Name the high end renderers that offer Pandora and/or Spotify. I have seen some all-in-one high end products that may, but not any renderers. In fact, there aren't that many pure renderers on the market. Although I may have missed some when I was searching.

Aurender N10, Esoteric F-05 Integrated Amplifier, Synergistic Active USB, Oppo 203, Synergistic Atmosphere Level 3 UEF Speaker cables, Legacy Audio Focus SE, Rega Planar 10 turntable with Aphelion 2 cartridge.

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Spotify, Pandora, and other such popular music service integration is a total no brainer.

 

I wouldn't now buy a product like this until they were included.

 

Just sayin..

 

cheers.

 

 

If you have an Apple device,isn't it just easier using Airplay for music services with compressed audio?

What difference will it make if it's integrated?

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