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24-Bit vs. 16-Bit Audio Test - Part II: RESULTS & CONCLUSIONS


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Hello,

Don't want to rise another discussion about what's better and why, but reading this I more and more somehow on side that mastering it the most important thing, rather the resolution if your DAC filters can act appropriately. Lots of people, including me went for high resolution, because different mastering in that case brought to us much better sound quality then regular CD nowdays produced for mass market without much attention to sonics. Just my thoughts however.

 

Archimago's Musings: 24-Bit vs. 16-Bit Audio Test - Part II: RESULTS & CONCLUSIONS

--

Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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Thank you, very thoughtful. When the music is great and the recordings are made properly with state-of-the-art gear, picking 16 vs. 24 bits should require very good conditions. The musicians did the best, a barely significant portion hearing a difference, just getting the their *expectation* of 16 vs. 24 wrong. Archimago interprets this as error. Under his definition that's true, but audibility is (barely) suggested in this small study. Most musicians have pretty meager gear, they haven't the income for really good stuff. They might have found the 16 bit material more lively. I also would really like to know the average quality of the equipment like DACs involved. Part III provides an advertisement for the author, not cool.

 

It is certainly odd that he chose to keep the same sample rate. I would expect that 16/44 might show some difference in average (even audiophile) playback systems vs. 16/96, especially given the quality of recording gear and personnel.

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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. Most musicians have pretty meager gear, they haven't the income for really good stuff. They might have found the 16 bit material more lively. I also would really like to know the average quality of the equipment like DACs involved. Part III provides an advertisement for the author, not cool.

I would expect that 16/44 might show some difference in average (even audiophile) playback systems vs. 16/96, especially given the quality of recording gear and personnel.

 

Do you often feel comfortable making statements like these?

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Part III provides an advertisement for the author, not cool.

 

I block ads, so perhaps that is why I only see Part II.

 

It is certainly odd that he chose to keep the same sample rate. I would expect that 16/44 might show some difference in average (even audiophile) playback systems vs. 16/96, especially given the quality of recording gear and personnel.

 

In a scientific experiment, one typically changes one variable at a time, keeping all others constant. If you change two things at once, how do you know which one accounts for the difference?

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It is certainly odd that he chose to keep the same sample rate. I would expect that 16/44 might show some difference in average (even audiophile) playback systems vs. 16/96, especially given the quality of recording gear and personnel.

Whoops, I meant that 16/44 in some lesser gear might show more difference wrt 24/96 than 16/96 does. But with ultra-low-jitter recordings being fed to DACs with varying accuracy in timing, I wonder what we should expect.

 

Do you often feel comfortable making statements like these?

 

Fair to middlin'. I screw up my messages a lot. If you are talking about the results of the study, no. I don't know how I would have done. One null test error I've spoken about often is the LF rolloff. Very rarely do testers mention the nulls in subsonic freqs that sit far, far above the <-90dB nulls that Archimago saw in his test, but that's old news. I accept that we don't appear to hear artifacts above Fs, but we certainly sense them far below 20Hz. Whether that really matters in this case, I can't tell.

 

Where is Part III?

 

I can't find it. There are links to it in his two articles but they go to a book page on Amazon. Maybe it's just an error.

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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In a scientific experiment, one typically changes one variable at a time, keeping all others constant. If you change two things at once, how do you know which one accounts for the difference?

 

Quite right, you don't. But the experiment is not very useful since the question most of us wish to answer is whether people can distinguish 16/44.1 from 24/96 or 24/88.2. That is because *nobody* records at 16/96. Sure the experiment is useful in examining decimation only, but I would be happier to see results that shed light on current practices, where the combination of two parameters, domain and range, are altered.

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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Do you?

 

The poster generalizes the hearing capabilities and income of musicians and you question my query?

 

I thought it was those same musicians that create the music we love.....not the gear we buy. Eh.....what do i know anyways?

Time for another break from here for me.......see ya'll later.

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Nice to see :~)

 

Does it help you if we occasionally click on the banners too, even if it doesn't lead directly to a click-through sale? Some of my audio purchasing decisions are influenced by CA, but you would need a pretty sophisticated multi-touch attribution tracking system to demonstrate that.

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The poster generalizes the hearing capabilities and income of musicians and you question my query?

I thought it was those same musicians that create the music we love.....not the gear we buy. Eh.....what do i know anyways?

Time for another break from here for me.......see ya'll later.

 

Mayhem, what's happening? When you earlier asked, "Do you often feel comfortable making statements like these?" I thought you might have a complaint about my critique of the test. I had no idea you thought I was disparaging a group of people whom I love. Now as I said earlier, I often communicate poorly and state my thoughts and feelings incorrectly. But to criticize musicians! No other group of people has given more to my life than they. I love to sing, but with little skill. I would consider it a great honor to be called a musician. So please understand my consternation over that. For elaboration of my feelings or statements, feel free to post about it or PM me. Having heard your passion to honor and cherish these jewels of our civilization, I am certain we share *far* more values than you suspect!

 

Finally, I strongly ask you to stay here. No community is healthy without voices of dissent and challenge, and no one can accuse you of failing to seek honesty in these discussions.

 

Best wishes, Sam

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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Finally, I strongly ask you to stay here. No community is healthy without voices of dissent and challenge, and no one can accuse you of failing to seek honesty in these discussions.

 

Best wishes, Sam

 

I second this. Life is so boring when you only deal with people you agree with, and although I often have a differing opinion than Mayhem, I value hearing his POV.

You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star

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Mayhem, what's happening? When you earlier asked, "Do you often feel comfortable making statements like these?" I thought you might have a complaint about my critique of the test. I had no idea you thought I was disparaging a group of people whom I love. Now as I said earlier, I often communicate poorly and state my thoughts and feelings incorrectly. But to criticize musicians! No other group of people has given more to my life than they. I love to sing, but with little skill. I would consider it a great honor to be called a musician. So please understand my consternation over that. For elaboration of my feelings or statements, feel free to post about it or PM me. Having heard your passion to honor and cherish these jewels of our civilization, I am certain we share *far* more values than you suspect!

 

Finally, I strongly ask you to stay here. No community is healthy without voices of dissent and challenge, and no one can accuse you of failing to seek honesty in these discussions.

 

Best wishes, Sam

 

I doubt Mayhem will be gone long. Sometimes he seems to get very frustrated and just takes a few days off. But he always comes back refreshed and ready to go about any all subjects he loves - with considerable energy. ;)

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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