DSD and Sampling Rate software QUEST

[Mike Mcsweeney]

I actually bought JRIVER, if for no other reason, was because they were very helpful. That said, it is very complex and has "too many features" (grin). I want a simpler interface.

 

I fell in love with AUDIOGATE when they were giving there software away for free, but now you have to buy their DAC to use it's features. I am not in love with their interface, i am in love with the DSD Features. It allows you to change the sampling rate on any format. When playing DSD files natively it sounds superb, like nothing else i have heard competes. It sounds better than Jrivers default settings anyway...and it has too many tweaks..

 

So the quest is for a high resolution media player that can convert to "one bit" audio with sampling rate up to 192K for non-dsd files and higher for dsd files.

 

Foobar seems like a logical candidate, with plugins can play dsd, but it wont convert non-dsd files to one-bit up to 192k like audiogate does, and i am not even sure jriver will allow you to do that with the right tweaks?

 

Audiogate seems so simple, but the fact they no longer let you have the higher sampling rates unless you buy their dac ruined it...you would think they would let you buy their software? But the interface isnt that great either.

I don't want to spend more than $100 for good software program.

 

I already looked at mediamonkey and it doesnt do dsd.

 

Does itunes allow you to play high sampling rate 1-bit on the fly for non-dsd files?

 

is there ANY other options??

[Leonardo Piras]

I actually bought JRIVER, if for no other reason, was because they were very helpful. That said, it is very complex and has "too many features" (grin). I want a simpler interface.

 

Does itunes allow you to play high sampling rate 1-bit on the fly for non-dsd files?

 

is there ANY other options??

 

I guess you're pretty much stuck with JRiver.

I don't like the interface as well, especially on macs.

 

Anyway, it is actually able to upsample any pcm files or dsd files up to 2x DSD in real time.

Wether this is actually an improvement to your sound, it is up to you to decide.

PCM to DSD upsampling introduces some very slight but measurable distortion to the original signal... and you could find this distortion euphonic or pleasing to your ear.

 

iTunes won't do any of this, not realtime nor offline. I don't know if Foobar does anything similar as i run Mac Os exclusively.

 

Please note that any DSP or EQ to the sound is done in the PCM "domain" thus further increasing processing.

[Paul R]

Hi Mike - almost nobody I know uses the interface with JRMC directly on their PC for most things any longer. They set it up - once - and then pretty much user JRemote.

 

You do need an i-device to run that, iPad, iPhone, or iPod, but it is definitely worth it in my opinion. Even people who have grown an allergy to Apples tend to love JRemote. A *lot*.

 

-Paul

 

 

I actually bought JRIVER, if for no other reason, was because they were very helpful. That said, it is very complex and has "too many features" (grin). I want a simpler interface.

 

I fell in love with AUDIOGATE when they were giving there software away for free, but now you have to buy their DAC to use it's features. I am not in love with their interface, i am in love with the DSD Features. It allows you to change the sampling rate on any format. When playing DSD files natively it sounds superb, like nothing else i have heard competes. It sounds better than Jrivers default settings anyway...and it has too many tweaks..

 

So the quest is for a high resolution media player that can convert to "one bit" audio with sampling rate up to 192K for non-dsd files and higher for dsd files.

 

Foobar seems like a logical candidate, with plugins can play dsd, but it wont convert non-dsd files to one-bit up to 192k like audiogate does, and i am not even sure jriver will allow you to do that with the right tweaks?

 

Audiogate seems so simple, but the fact they no longer let you have the higher sampling rates unless you buy their dac ruined it...you would think they would let you buy their software? But the interface isnt that great either.

I don't want to spend more than $100 for good software program.

 

I already looked at mediamonkey and it doesnt do dsd.

 

Does itunes allow you to play high sampling rate 1-bit on the fly for non-dsd files?

 

is there ANY other options??

[Leonardo Piras]

You do need an i-device to run that, iPad, iPhone, or iPod, but it is definitely worth it in my opinion. Even people who have grown an allergy to Apples tend to love JRemote. A *lot*.

 

If you happen to have an Android device you can use Gizmo ... which is very good and free.

[ted_b]

One option: Spend 40 min (2 x 20min) with my screencast videos on setting up and using JRIver and maybe you'll wonder why you were daunted by its feature set.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

[kumakuma]

One option: Spend 40 min (2 x 20min) with my screencast videos on setting up and using JRIver and maybe you'll wonder why you were daunted by its feature set.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

 

Totally agree. I was confused on how to export custom library views to Jremote yesterday and found the answer near the end of the second video.

[Paul R]

If you happen to have an Android device you can use Gizmo ... which is very good and free.

 

It is that, but it does not begin to compare with JRemote. -Paul

[Mike Mcsweeney]

One option: Spend 40 min (2 x 20min) with my screencast videos on setting up and using JRIver and maybe you'll wonder why you were daunted by its feature set.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

 

 

thanks, i will definitely save this link for when i have time (i know only 40 min)...but i do hope to retire soon (grin).

 

I am one of those that is allergic to anything "apple" but i will check out gizmo.

 

I am just not a "device' kind of guy. I like my pc. One, i have bad eyes... even with my SAMSUNG MEGA, i have hard time seeing, and hell if i will pull out reading glasses and a device...I will learn jriver, and control from my pc. I also want a second pc next to the home video system with a 21 touch pad to control jriver. I like the idea of swipe an point, just not on a device, so i will use jriver on windows 8 touchscreen for my "jukebox".

 

The main thing i like about audiogate is that i can play 1 bit 192K over my hdmi cable to my avr. I have heard this crap about jitter, but to me the built in dac in the denon over hdmi sounds played with audiogate sounds amazing, and much better than the dragonfly usb. Will your link show how i can play 1bit 192k sample rate with hdmi output, even when i am only playing a wav file? I swear with audiogate 192k 1 bit sounds many times better than 44.1k sample rate pcm...will jriver allow me to do that? i kept getting an error message saying cant play in that mode and do i want to downsample to 44k...

[Mike Mcsweeney]

One option: Spend 40 min (2 x 20min) with my screencast videos on setting up and using JRIver and maybe you'll wonder why you were daunted by its feature set.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

 

 

thanks, i will definitely save this link for when i have time (i know only 40 min)...but i do hope to retire soon (grin).

 

I am one of those that is allergic to anything "apple" but i will check out gizmo.

 

I am just not a "device' kind of guy. I like my pc. One, i have bad eyes... even with my SAMSUNG MEGA (6" android), i have hard time seeing, and hell if i will pull out reading glasses and a device...I will learn jriver, and control from my pc. I also want a second pc next to the home audio/video system with a 21 touch pad to control jriver. I like the idea of swipe and point, just not on a device, so i will use jriver on windows 8 touchscreen for my "jukebox".

 

The main thing i like about audiogate is that i can play 1 bit 192K over my hdmi cable to my avr. I have heard this crap about jitter, but to me the built in dac in the denon over hdmi played with audiogate sounds amazing, and much better than the dragonfly usb.

 

Will your link show how i can play 1bit 192k sample rate with hdmi output, even when i am only playing a wav file? I swear with audiogate "192k sampling 1 bit" sounds many times better than 44.1k sample rate pcm...will jriver allow me to do that? i kept getting an error message saying cant play in that mode and do i want to downsample to 44k..

[Allan F]

One option: Spend 40 min (2 x 20min) with my screencast videos on setting up and using JRIver and maybe you'll wonder why you were daunted by its feature set.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

 

+1

 

J River can be very intimidating and, to say the least, their documentation does not provide a User Guide that is very helpful or easy to follow for people starting out. Thankfully, there are other sources such as the above. Having said that, the software is a very powerful tool and has many desirable features, including the ability to convert formats.

 

I agree with Paul that, once you have things set up. JRemote on an iPad is the way to go as far as a user interface in concerned.

[firedog]

Gizmo vs. JRemote:

Gizmo is usable. JRemote is in a different league.

 

But Robert Ryan (JRemote developer) is now working for JRiver. He confirmed to me that an Android app is one of the top priorities. So it will be released sometime in the not to distant future....but don't hold your breath, it won't be that soon:)

[Leonardo Piras]

Gizmo vs. JRemote:

Gizmo is usable. JRemote is in a different league.

 

That's what i would expect from an app that's $10.

Gizmo is free.

[4est]

...and you get what you pay for.

That's what i would expect from an app that's $10.

Gizmo is free.

[firedog]

That's what i would expect from an app that's $10.

Gizmo is free.

Leonardo, what is your point? People using JRiver have all invested a fair amount of bucks in a sound system and playback softwre. Are you trying to say you find it outrageous to invest $10 more in a playback app that improves the listening experience (not the SQ) by several orders of magnitude?

 

Or is it just a comment for Android users who don't want to invest in an iPad/iPhone? That's certainly understandable, but is a different topic. User interface is one of the most important aspects of computer audio, IMO. Without a good interface the fun of music

listening is lessened. JRemote provides that exceptional UI that adds to enjoyment. Well worth its price.

[Leonardo Piras]

Leonardo, what is your point? People using JRiver have all invested a fair amount of bucks in a sound system and playback softwre. Are you trying to say you find it outrageous to invest $10 more in a playback app that improves the listening experience (not the SQ) by several orders of magnitude?

 

Or is it just a comment for Android users who don't want to invest in an iPad/iPhone? That's certainly understandable, but is a different topic. User interface is one of the most important aspects of computer audio, IMO. Without a good interface the fun of music

listening is lessened. JRemote provides that exceptional UI that adds to enjoyment. Well worth its price.

 

I have both an iPhone and an Android device and I have really nothing against one another.

They both do their job. I have both Gizmo and Jremote.

 

I think that however Jriver is overpriced on the Mac platform.

It costs too much for a bloated and non compliant user interface, though it sounds good and has some unique features (i.e. 2x DSD on the fly transcoding).

So Jremote adds another $10 to save you from a crappy UX you paid too much for.

Of course, IMHO.

[Allan F]

So Jremote adds another $10 to save you from a crappy UX you paid too much for.

Of course, IMHO.

 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it seems to me that you are visiting the sins you perceive in J River upon JRemote. You fail to mention the convenience that JRemote provides in being able to sit in you listening chair and have complete control of your music player using an iPad (or iPhone) with an extremely user friendly interface. IMO, at $10.00, JRemote is a steal; that's about or less than the cost of a single CD.

 

As a PC user, I consider J River to be an excellent product made even better by JRemote.

[robcentola]

After reading about the positive results upsampling redbook (or anything else) to DSD, I have to ask a novice question: I, like a lot of people, am very interested in the Aries. I'm in the market for a DSD DAC to take advantage of it's features, but I was wondering how can I upsample without a computer? Is this possible? Is there a DAC that will do this on the fly without Jriver, Foobar, or the like?

[kumakuma]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it seems to me that you are visiting the sins you perceive in J River upon JRemote. You fail to mention the convenience that JRemote provides in being able to sit in you listening chair and have complete control of your music player using an iPad (or iPhone) with an extremely user friendly interface. IMO, at $10.00, JRemote is a steal; that's about or less than the cost of a single CD.

 

As a PC user, I consider J River to be an excellent product made even better by JRemote.

 

+1

 

It also works great on a Mac once you get back some of the user interface issues. I can live with the UI ugliness for all the power and functionality that JRiver provides.

[bogi]

Foobar seems like a logical candidate, with plugins can play dsd, but it wont convert non-dsd files to one-bit up to 192k like audiogate does

Not true ... I m using it.

Read here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/head-head-jrmc19-foobar-sacd-and-hq-player-doing-cd-standard-lpcm-sampled-16-bits-and-44-100-times-second-aimed-reproducing-sound-20-20-000hz-direct-stream-digital-and-native-direct-stream-digital-20687/

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/foobar-sacd-plugin-asioplugin-6-0-pulse-code-modulation-x44-1k-direct-stream-digital-upsampler-13822/

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/foobar-and-converting-flac-dsd128-fly-16433/

When configured, Foobar2000 will convert any PCM file to DSD64, DSD128 or even higher (my DAC isn't capable more).

You can experiment and combine upsampling with SoX DSP plugin too - it is applied before the PCM to DSD conversion.

I have best results with upsampling CDs to 352.8k with SoX and then converting them to DSD128 by Foobar ASIO proxy / SACD plugin.

I compared JRMC and Foobar and I agree with the results from the 1st link above. Foobar is better and more stable for Redbook CDs upsampling and conversion to DSD. I am using DAC with XMOS USB receiver and I am able to set lower latency in the ASIO driver Control panel for Foobar. Lower latency setting leads to more detailed sound.

[jriver]

I actually bought JRIVER, if for no other reason, was because they were very helpful. That said, it is very complex and has "too many features" (grin). I want a simpler interface.

 

You can reduce the feature set if you wish:

Simplified Interface - JRiverWiki

[Paul R]

I actually bought JRIVER, if for no other reason, was because they were very helpful. That said, it is very complex and has "too many features" (grin). I want a simpler interface.

 

I fell in love with AUDIOGATE when they were giving there software away for free, but now you have to buy their DAC to use it's features. I am not in love with their interface, i am in love with the DSD Features. It allows you to change the sampling rate on any format. When playing DSD files natively it sounds superb, like nothing else i have heard competes. It sounds better than Jrivers default settings anyway...and it has too many tweaks..

 

So the quest is for a high resolution media player that can convert to "one bit" audio with sampling rate up to 192K for non-dsd files and higher for dsd files.

 

Foobar seems like a logical candidate, with plugins can play dsd, but it wont convert non-dsd files to one-bit up to 192k like audiogate does, and i am not even sure jriver will allow you to do that with the right tweaks?

 

Audiogate seems so simple, but the fact they no longer let you have the higher sampling rates unless you buy their dac ruined it...you would think they would let you buy their software? But the interface isnt that great either.

I don't want to spend more than $100 for good software program.

 

I already looked at mediamonkey and it doesnt do dsd.

 

Does itunes allow you to play high sampling rate 1-bit on the fly for non-dsd files?

 

is there ANY other options??

 

 

Patience.

 

A+ v2 will be out eventually, and offer J. River some competition. But of course, J. River usually listens to the users and takes steps to make them happy. The ultra-rapid lace they were moving at was dramatically slowed when Matt was critically injured. Can not blame them for that, and they have never abandoned Matt either. Good company even if it take take a lot of constant complaining before they relented and realized they had to do something about the Mac interface.

 

This stuff, building a wonderful system, does not happen in a day. It takes time.

 

my best advice to you is to use either iTunes with an add on player or JRMC - for now.

 

Paul

[Geoffrey Armstrong]

Not true ... I m using it.

 

You can experiment and combine upsampling with SoX DSP plugin too - it is applied before the PCM to DSD conversion.

I have best results with upsampling CDs to 352.8k with SoX and then converting them to DSD128 by Foobar ASIO proxy / SACD plugin.

 

How are you up-sampling to 352.8 with the Foobar SOX re-sampler? I'm only allowed to select a max of 192khz or 4x within this, even though the DAC is capable of 384khz PCM and DSD256.

 

Perhaps I downloaded the wrong version.

 

Thanks,

 

geoff

[EuroDriver]

After reading about the positive results upsampling redbook (or anything else) to DSD, I have to ask a novice question: I, like a lot of people, am very interested in the Aries. I'm in the market for a DSD DAC to take advantage of it's features, but I was wondering how can I upsample without a computer? Is this possible? Is there a DAC that will do this on the fly without Jriver, Foobar, or the like?

 

 

The SONY HAP-Z1ES has a PC built in a behaves pretty much like an appliance for those who do not enjoy wrestling with PC when trying to enjoy the music

 

Sony HAP-Z1ES review from the experts at whathifi.com

[bogi]

How are you up-sampling to 352.8 with the Foobar SOX re-sampler? I'm only allowed to select a max of 192khz or 4x within this, even though the DAC is capable of 384khz PCM and DSD256.

Geoffrey, instead of choosing a value from the combo box, simply type 352800 in it.

 

If that would be impossible, you could still reach it with two SoX instances (176400 & x2), but that's not necessary.